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Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

First post First post
Author
Abadayos
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#781 - 2016-08-31 05:50:57 UTC
Kenneth Fritz wrote:
Pretagos Omilas wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
(...)
* "super weapon" that only postpones destruction


Couldn't your corp mates just use that time to reship into pvp ships and fight for your safety? Or would that be too much work and you just want to have a risk free reward (like possed mining boosts)?



Depending on the skills they have your beloved corp mates my simply add to the kill mails by reshipping and coming to help. Only thing they accomplished is to further delay the inevitable destruction of said Rorqual by being a distraction.



Hit PANIC button, have one of the mining ships light there 'this has all gone FUBAR' cyno modual (could be your drone trigger with target painter for rats or whatever) and laugh as 4+ FAXs and a few carriers drop on the gankers, or if your close to the Rorq with your mining ships, store the expensive ones, do your best to warp the pod and then wait for the PANIC to expire and mash that 'jump to friendly cyno' thing

Everyone has a laugh, high fives all round, someone deploys salvage drones and you go back to mining.


I don't see a problem. Sure lighting the cyno should take you out of the invulnerability effect, but if you have that ship specifically built for that purpose you should have it pretty well tanked and able to live long enough for atleast 1 ship to jump through that can light a secondary cyno if/when your mining ship dies.

Sure not everyone has this sort of back-up on demand, however if you have the infrastructure to hold space in null and be out mining in a belt with a Rorqual, then they should be present.

Also for those saying 'but having a standing fleet doing nothing whilst people mine is boring as hell'. I have a suggestion: ratting. Carrier ratting makes you a pretty decent sum, as does super and titan ratting. Normal ratting in sub-caps is also good and if your mining in null it's usually in a safe-ish pocket so ratters are also naturally going to be there so they can keep getting their ticks.

If your corp/alliance is too small for this sort of thing then yes this change sucks for you and for that i'm sorry, however there is nothing stopping you from searching out somewhere else, well nothing besides yourself anyways.

Saying all that I do not like the idea of having to siege in a belt with my Rorqual, however with sufficient cover I will. If not enough cover present the Rorqual pilot will hop into the new mining boosting BC and be with my miners and I'll just make do with less yield but zero risk to 2.4 bill+ hull. You just have to learn to adapt and be flexible.

Also Rorqual boost should be auto-repeat. I would want to kill myself if I have to go back every 2 minutes to reapply the boost whilst also micromanaging 7+ miners and hauler, it can be done but mining is already boring and annoying enough, adding another annoyance is just frigging stupid
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#782 - 2016-08-31 06:58:02 UTC
Who in their mother loving right mind would ever siege their Rorqual in a belt no matter what boosts it gave?
Now if they removed the 5 minute siege effect from the industrial array then a case could be made because they you could hope to align or jump out to save your investment leaving the barges behind, similar to every ratting carrier in existence who would sooner jump than wait for their fighters to return.

You cannot equivalent the risk of flying a command ship/carrier/super/titan into a fleet fight with links active to that of a Rorqual providing bonuses to a near defenseless mining fleet. Closest to any is a triaged FAX, but even they dont need to be in triage to provide links.

You want risk, you accomplish that by having them in the belt at all. No need to spoon feed expensive killmails to the mindless masses who cant even think to set up a log off trap half the time by forcing such an investment to stay on grid in 5 minute intervals just to provide boosts.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#783 - 2016-08-31 07:04:56 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:

Now if they removed the 5 minute siege effect from the industrial array then a case could be made because they you could hope to align or jump out to save your investment leaving the barges behind, similar to every ratting carrier in existence who would sooner jump than wait for their fighters to return.


Nah, they'd ALL be in warp before anything could possibly happen to them. Seen it too many times before.
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#784 - 2016-08-31 07:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nasar Vyron
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Nasar Vyron wrote:

Now if they removed the 5 minute siege effect from the industrial array then a case could be made because they you could hope to align or jump out to save your investment leaving the barges behind, similar to every ratting carrier in existence who would sooner jump than wait for their fighters to return.


Nah, they'd ALL be in warp before anything could possibly happen to them. Seen it too many times before.


Where's the problem with that? You missed on your first try. Jump a few gates out to the system their eyes are in, pause and crash gate and return. Don't catch him again? Leave a ship behind and log it out in the mining anom/belt you scanned it in. Rest of the fleet leaves and goes 1 jump past eyes. Wait a few minutes, log that toon in, tackle them then your fleet rushes back.

Don't expect everything to go your way easily, or go your way on your first attempt.
EDIT: or go your way at all TBQH


Nothing in this game should be easy, and that includes catching and slaughtering a mining fleet and it's boosts.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#785 - 2016-08-31 07:18:26 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Don't catch him again? Leave a ship behind and log it out in the mining anom/belt you scanned it in. Rest of the fleet leaves and goes 1 jump past eyes. Wait a few minutes, log that toon in, tackle them then your fleet rushes back.


... or park an AFK cloaker in system... I know.

Battlerorqs are a thing you know? Not "any roaming fleet" can even take one on and live to tell the tale.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#786 - 2016-08-31 07:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Olmops
I am thinking about the role of capitals here.

Basically everything except for Dreads can have Links with huge ranges. So a fleet with capital support can have links nearly for free - they don't have to worry about taking special ships with them (ok, the bonus is a bit weaker than on Command Ships, but I think the difference is not relevant).
Eliminating Command Ships or everything with Links as a tactic could be nearly impossible due to great redundancy.
Also this reminds me of the "swiss-army-knife"-issues with carriers.

What are the considerations here?
I know that carriers could always carry links, but could this not be a chance to somewhat restrict their availability in the capital class?

Suggestions:
-remove the 1% bonus from carriers/FAUX (comparative advantage for dedicated Command Ships)
-limit the range bonus (a carrier pilot cannot position himself, but the subcaps can)
-remove command bursts from either carriers or FAUX (more clearly defined role profile)
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#787 - 2016-08-31 07:48:50 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Battlerorqs are a thing you know? Not "any roaming fleet" can even take one on and live to tell the tale.

Tip: Kill the drones. The Rorqual has a small drone bay, and less DPS than a solo Rattlesnake.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#788 - 2016-08-31 07:51:43 UTC
and none of the surrounding ships have drones, nor is anyone on comms or withing jump range? If that's the case, downship and don't deploy a capital ship.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#789 - 2016-08-31 07:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Deep Space Cowboy wrote:
To all the non miners that keep arguging that sieging a rorqual in a belt will be fine this: https://zkillboard.com/character/92270154/ is what happens currently to pilots who choose to siege their rorqual in a belt while they mine. This pilot has lost FOURTEEN rorquals in the past 10 months (and has been inactive for 2) since he was able to fly them.

(Killmails redacted b/c forum rules)

This is what CCP is asking miners to do with these changes. There's no risk vs reward only suicide.



I could link a killmail of someone being extremely stupid too.

Does a killmail of someone getting a Navy Megathron CONCORDED prove that the Navythron is a bad ship? No, of course not. It does, however, provide evidence that it is not a suitable ship for illegal highsec aggression.

Does a killmail of a Charon ganked in Uedama prove that the Charon is a bad ship? No. It provides evidence that the Charon should not fly full of loot through dangerous systems without adequate scouting and a combat escort if the scouts detect threats.

The Rorqual will not be a ship to field in contested territory, nor to field without a combat escort on standby (perhaps a BLOPS gang your alliance is using to harrass ratters nearby). Simple, really.

But if you have a serious fleet mining op and the ability to mobilize nearby friendly ratters to defend it if hostiles show up - then you have an excellent situation to field a Rorqual and to reap the rewards that come with taking wisely considered risks.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#790 - 2016-08-31 07:59:50 UTC
good bye all the good fights I had, which were provided by ogb.
Deep Space Cowboy
Crisis Gate
#791 - 2016-08-31 08:08:25 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Deep Space Cowboy wrote:
To all the non miners that keep arguging that sieging a rorqual in a belt will be fine this: https://zkillboard.com/character/92270154/ is what happens currently to pilots who choose to siege their rorqual in a belt while they mine. This pilot has lost FOURTEEN rorquals in the past 10 months (and has been inactive for 2) since he was able to fly them.

(Killmails redacted b/c forum rules)

This is what CCP is asking miners to do with these changes. There's no risk vs reward only suicide.





The Rorqual will not be a ship to field in contested territory, nor to field without a combat escort on standby (perhaps a BLOPS gang your alliance is using to harrass ratters nearby). Simple, really.

But if you have a serious fleet mining op and the ability to mobilize nearby friendly ratters to defend it if hostiles show up - then you have an excellent situation to field a Rorqual and to reap the rewards that come with taking wisely considered risks.


The fact that you think a blops gang is a good counter drop to the standard roaming nano gang shows how completely out of touch you are with the nulsec meta. Stick to ganking in hisec like the pleb you are and let those of us that actually live in nulsec talk about these changes.
h4kun4
The Validus
#792 - 2016-08-31 09:55:15 UTC
Considering that Phoebe and Aegis combined kind of ruined my gameplay by making me wait and do sth else than playing EVE, i was very afraid this would be next step towards me quitting EVE, but I have to say, I am very positively surprised. I like the new set ideas I just read, first it will make "solo" pvp less of a pain to deal with, you could ofc still just activate a boost and then warp to the people you want to attack, but, they will immediately see that you have a boost active and if they leave system you you may be forced to fight on normal odds.
Second it will finally be worthwhile boosting form a commandship on grid, for me they have only filled the role of being kickass pvp ships so far. (Pleas don't change that^^). As a small time FC, i very much apprechiate the removal of fleet hierarchy in the boosting role, because you clearly have better things to do mid fight than checking if your squad commanders are still alive.

So i calculated the Ranges based on the base range of 15km
Dessies and Porpoise - 26.25km
BC, T3, Orca and Qual - 33.75km
Command Ships - 41.25km
Caps - 56.25km

Correct me if any of those are wrong or if i might have missed something in the calculation.

Especially for bigger fleets and other certain roles in a fleet like logis and tackle it might become hard to get boosts as the fight exetnds in length.

The porpoise still bothers me a bit, im not much into mining, but how can we imagine the new hull compared to existing ones?
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#793 - 2016-08-31 10:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shilalasar
Not having the Rorq devblog already available already three questions about the core come to mind:

Will it affect the drones of the miningships?
Will it affect other Rorqs next to you too, so you can go invul several time in a row?

Will it be one cycle with one charge? Or could it be something like 3 charges of 2 minute cycles? So the miners have a chance to sneak out. One cycle leaves the attackers with just setting a timer and going afk for it.



About the numbers:

This change will make boosters way more common, so wouldn´t it be a good time to tune them down a bit? There should be an actual choice wether to try to bring the full 6 must haves ( 3 skirmish, 2 tank hp/resis, eccm) even for a small gang or if fewer are sufficient.

The tank ones and Evasive Maneuvers, esp all 4 comined, just are so strong they are mandatory.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#794 - 2016-08-31 10:24:00 UTC
One thing that was forgotten by a previous post regarding carrier ratters is that if you leave your fighters behind you can recall them and they'll warp to you equivalent to where they were ongrid with you when they were left behind.
Hetty Lang
Kratus Tria
#795 - 2016-08-31 10:36:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Hetty Lang
Greetings

Yes these changes are a wholesale shake up and breaking of a lot of gameplay and mechanics and yes lot's of people are upset, as too how justified their complaints are is a matter of perspective

One point I would like some clarity on though is on implants, are the proposed changes are only affecting command implants?

I ask as there are implants that are used that dont strictly come under the heading of command / fleet implants but give effects that are being changed by these changes

For instance implants that alter a pilots ship speed, maneuvering, weapons, etc basically I'd love to hear from fozzie that implants that affect a pilot's ships or it's modules at a personal level are going to be altered

Cheers
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#796 - 2016-08-31 10:40:42 UTC
lord xavier wrote:
Quote:
Amarr Effect Generator: +Capacitor, -Speed, -EM Resistances, +Kinetic Resistances
Minmatar Effect Generator: -Signature Radius, -Turret Optimal Range, -Explosive Resistances, +Thermal Resistances


Lol This has to be the best part of the entire blog. The minmatar effect is so terrible people will be self-destructing ragnaroks in protest.


Yeah, that Amarr one would be the most OP thing I have seen in a long time.
Johnno Ormand
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#797 - 2016-08-31 10:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnno Ormand
Looks like I'm selling my Orca & extracting mining boosting skills, as well as the skills I trained to fly a Rorq. No way I'm going to put a big expensive target on grid for others to gank.
Jalen Mynar
Kestrel Security Company
#798 - 2016-08-31 10:55:47 UTC
Why not make the rorq a capital mining ship. Rework slot layouts, drone buffs etc. Give us some fighter size mining drones and the ability to compress without being stuck for 5 mins.

It would be no different to carrier ratting, thats a reasonably high risk/reward pastime.
Zifrian
Aideron Robotics
#799 - 2016-08-31 10:56:28 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Funny how miners think my sieged Dread can hit 24 AU from within the POS shield where I sit AFK blapping stuff.

Funny how non-miners engaged in combat activities with a siege dred in a combat fleet can think there is any comparison to a rorqual in a belt with some mining barges.

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Lando Tarsadan
Doomheim
#800 - 2016-08-31 11:00:06 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:

I don't think the Rorqual's reconfiguration animation is compatible with a 1 minute siege, though I'm all for that, even at the expense of removing the reconfiguration.


I do belive the animation takes around 30-40 sec so im guessing it would be doable.