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Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

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Mafone
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#661 - 2016-08-30 20:52:05 UTC
My main comments were at #347

But reading through this I am not sure of the whole mining boosts thing that seems to have overtaken this topic.

The risk/reward balance for Rorq on grid in belts/anoms and fixed in place a la siege may be a bit to much - speaking as someone who enjoys nothing more than ganking miners and would love to find a whole immobile PANIC mining fleet while I ping for more dps. There does have to be some balance and perhaps the balance is off in this.

I have seen a number of suggestions - moving mining anoms back to scanned sites would make a bit of sense to mitigate this - however this should also be done with either the removal of or delay of local chat (in null/low) which is the biggest annoyance for pvp roams in null especially. Yes make the belts harder to find but encouraage active gameplay by making ppl check D-scan for probes rather than relying on an alt a few jumps out seeing ppl in local. Even a 1 minute delay in local would help.

As for the links as I said before yes stop offgrid, but nerfing range, duration, amount and command ships themselves (less links) as well as passive nerfs to fleets usually small without boosters at present (by removing base skill effects) is too much.

AOE boosts with decent duration and range good. They have to also be significant in effect not nerfed as suggested - indeed should if anything be buffed to make them more reflect increased effort.

Specialised command ships/Destroyers need to be reworked in this properly.

Also unless I am very much mistaken we will start to see Sleipnir's online for high skill players and groups which will decrease rather than increase ship diversity in fleets. Ppl who cant afford/fly these may use a T1/Faction BC doctrine where everyone boosts but not sure this is the best way to go.
Pretagos Omilas
Made in Wormhole Space
#662 - 2016-08-30 20:53:40 UTC
Drago Misharie wrote:
Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...
If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do?

Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships?

Prevent everyone from warping away.


If they're not AFK miners (which is a big if, mind you) the ships will be gone before you get there. Capital ships in the belt will usually have all entrances to the constellation monitored and be at least 2-3 jumps in. Of course, you can catch the stupid ones, but you already can catch those and always will be able to...

2-3 jumps? Ever heard of cepter fleets? You have 10-15 secs before tackled


So? You only need 2-4 seconds (including reaction time and server tick) to warp off (hit one button, that's all). Obviously you need to be aligned first..... Higgs anchor and friendly webs are your friends...
Pretagos Omilas
Made in Wormhole Space
#663 - 2016-08-30 20:59:20 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no the ships can keep mining but they can't fight if they are shielded

Thanks for the information, didn't know that and I'd have loved to see some nice baits :-) Still I guess the way to go than is to warp off mining ships and activate that weapon afterwards to buy you some time until your reinforcement arrives.
Hilmar Fudd
Wery Wascally Wabbits
#664 - 2016-08-30 21:01:36 UTC
Just skimmed the Blog for now.... and some of the posts.

What took you so long CCP. Found another treasure trove of hard earned SP's and skills to GIVE AWAY to noobs. Roll

Welcome to Command Spew, from the folks who took away the usefulness and rewards for your probing skills, destroyed many gazillions in researched BPO's ad nauseum. Now they have done it to your Command Skills, which I am sure all the Fanboi's loving this don't have.

Command bursts Roll

Why do I even bother.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#665 - 2016-08-30 21:03:46 UTC
Hilmar Fudd wrote:
Just skimmed the Blog for now.... and some of the posts.

What took you so long CCP. Found another treasure trove of hard earned SP's and skills to GIVE AWAY to noobs. Roll

Welcome to Command Spew, from the folks who took away the usefulness and rewards for your probing skills, destroyed many gazillions in researched BPO's ad nauseum. Now they have done it to your Command Skills, which I am sure all the Fanboi's loving this don't have.

Command bursts Roll

Why do I even bother.


nothing wrong with the bursts the problem is the strength rig and overall power nerf even with the rig

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#666 - 2016-08-30 21:04:03 UTC
Drago Misharie wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:

One Stealth Bomber can take out a fleet of macks or retrievers easily with a single bomb. Just aim for to boosting ship with all the sweet targets clustered around it.

Only if you fit for nothing but yield. IIRC our macks had much more than 10k EHP. Not to mention that in hostile space they kind of are not the most optimal ship. There is a mining ship that can take real beatings. But again, you expect all the cakes all at once, max yields, max tanks, max everything, 100% safe. While everyone else has to compromise fits.

If we aren't fitted for yield, why in the heck would we have a boosting ship in a belt?

Illogical


You fit for tank, and then have boosts to up your yield to make up for the deficit. That way, you have the best of both worlds (tank and yield). You don't have the highest yield possible, but you have a really nice margin and are still able to tank multiple bombs. That is how you maximize your risk/reward when there are cloaky reds in system. If you have a great alliance with secure space, you can fit less tank and even more yield... you reap the rewards of your hard work (or rather, the hard work of your defense fleets).

protip: Don't try to call out the logic of others when yours is so obviously flawed.

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon
Ivor Bucket
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#667 - 2016-08-30 21:04:36 UTC
Is there a plan to balance command ships along with this patch?

Most command ships are terrible
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#668 - 2016-08-30 21:04:53 UTC
Pretagos Omilas wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:
Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...
If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do?

Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships?

Prevent everyone from warping away.


If they're not AFK miners (which is a big if, mind you) the ships will be gone before you get there. Capital ships in the belt will usually have all entrances to the constellation monitored and be at least 2-3 jumps in. Of course, you can catch the stupid ones, but you already can catch those and always will be able to...

2-3 jumps? Ever heard of cepter fleets? You have 10-15 secs before tackled


So? You only need 2-4 seconds (including reaction time and server tick) to warp off (hit one button, that's all). Obviously you need to be aligned first..... Higgs anchor and friendly webs are your friends...

You do realize the Rorqual cannot move, right?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#669 - 2016-08-30 21:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Pretagos Omilas wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:
Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...
If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do?

Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships?

Prevent everyone from warping away.


If they're not AFK miners (which is a big if, mind you) the ships will be gone before you get there. Capital ships in the belt will usually have all entrances to the constellation monitored and be at least 2-3 jumps in. Of course, you can catch the stupid ones, but you already can catch those and always will be able to...

2-3 jumps? Ever heard of cepter fleets? You have 10-15 secs before tackled


So? You only need 2-4 seconds (including reaction time and server tick) to warp off (hit one button, that's all). Obviously you need to be aligned first..... Higgs anchor and friendly webs are your friends...

You do realize the Rorqual cannot move, right?


i don't think you are supposed to use it if you can't defend it just like every other capital ship

EDIT:

it would be nice if the rorqu could hold standard ships and you could reship even when shielded (losing the shield ofc)

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Pretagos Omilas
Made in Wormhole Space
#670 - 2016-08-30 21:12:16 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Pretagos Omilas wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:
Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...
If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do?

Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships?

Prevent everyone from warping away.


If they're not AFK miners (which is a big if, mind you) the ships will be gone before you get there. Capital ships in the belt will usually have all entrances to the constellation monitored and be at least 2-3 jumps in. Of course, you can catch the stupid ones, but you already can catch those and always will be able to...

2-3 jumps? Ever heard of cepter fleets? You have 10-15 secs before tackled


So? You only need 2-4 seconds (including reaction time and server tick) to warp off (hit one button, that's all). Obviously you need to be aligned first..... Higgs anchor and friendly webs are your friends...

You do realize the Rorqual cannot move, right?


Yes, I was assuming the Rorqual to not be able to move/align (but seriously thanks for pointing it out because my knowledge about Rorquals and mining ships is not complete and I might be lacking some other info/mechanics). In my above post I was talking about having the mining ships ready to warp out to switch to fighting ships. While the mining ships are off grid, the Rorqual can activate the weapon to buy the time needed for the reinforcment to come back.

But again, I'm just thinking aloud so please correct me if I'm assuming some game mechanics wrongly.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#671 - 2016-08-30 21:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Lugh Crow-Slave
#672 - 2016-08-30 21:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Pretagos Omilas wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Pretagos Omilas wrote:


So? You only need 2-4 seconds (including reaction time and server tick) to warp off (hit one button, that's all). Obviously you need to be aligned first..... Higgs anchor and friendly webs are your friends...

You do realize the Rorqual cannot move, right?


Yes, I was assuming the Rorqual to not be able to move/align (but seriously thanks for pointing it out because my knowledge about Rorquals and mining ships is not complete and I might be lacking some other info/mechanics). In my above post I was talking about having the mining ships ready to warp out to switch to fighting ships. While the mining ships are off grid, the Rorqual can activate the weapon to buy the time needed for the reinforcment to come back.

But again, I'm just thinking aloud so please correct me if I'm assuming some game mechanics wrongly.


not game mechanics no but you are wrongly assuming that miners will use tools given to them to defend themselves

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Circumstantial Evidence
#673 - 2016-08-30 21:16:54 UTC
Ivor Bucket wrote:
Is there a plan to balance command ships along with this patch? Most command ships are terrible
Yes, the Dev Blog says that a future Dev Blog will cover proposed tweaks to ship balance.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#674 - 2016-08-30 21:19:17 UTC
Pretagos Omilas wrote:
But again, I'm just thinking aloud so please correct me if I'm assuming some game mechanics wrongly.

So little info is available -- that's why we really need a blog NOW not in November -- that nobody can assume to know with certainty what the new mechanics are going to be.

I'm doing my best with what I've got. I assume others are doing the same. I do own and have experience with a Rorqual with the current mechanics.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#675 - 2016-08-30 21:20:16 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Ivor Bucket wrote:
Is there a plan to balance command ships along with this patch? Most command ships are terrible
Yes, the Dev Blog says that a future Dev Blog will cover proposed tweaks to ship balance.


but will it be enough to make up for losing a rig and losing boost power?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#676 - 2016-08-30 21:31:19 UTC
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:

Since everyone knows that once CCP gets set on a great new idea, it's pretty much set to happen, we hope the duration cycle for these new modules is quite long to off set the trouble.


And yet with a long cycle time, you'd have to wait to rebuff your fleet mates, who would then be out of buffs because they only last about 60 seconds. Trust me when I say that long cycle times will not make the problem you perceive any better.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Drago Misharie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#677 - 2016-08-30 21:42:02 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:
Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...
If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do?

Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships?

Prevent everyone from warping away.


If they're not AFK miners (which is a big if, mind you) the ships will be gone before you get there. Capital ships in the belt will usually have all entrances to the constellation monitored and be at least 2-3 jumps in. Of course, you can catch the stupid ones, but you already can catch those and always will be able to...

2-3 jumps? Ever heard of cepter fleets? You have 10-15 secs before tackled

even cepters cant make 2 jumps in 15 seconds

We are talking from the point it is posted in intel, of course
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#678 - 2016-08-30 21:44:56 UTC
I'm actually kinda curious, but is the Rorq actually such a big deal as to cause more consternation than refactoring all of combat links? Is it really that central to gameplay in Eve, or are we making a mountain out of a molehill?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lando Tarsadan
Doomheim
#679 - 2016-08-30 21:45:45 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Pretagos Omilas wrote:
But again, I'm just thinking aloud so please correct me if I'm assuming some game mechanics wrongly.

So little info is available -- that's why we really need a blog NOW not in November -- that nobody can assume to know with certainty what the new mechanics are going to be.

I'm doing my best with what I've got. I assume others are doing the same. I do own and have experience with a Rorqual with the current mechanics.

from the dev blog
Quote:

These changes are currently scheduled for our big November release, and we have four dev blogs planned between now and then to go over the new system and many associated changes.

This blog will cover the goals of the new system, the new mechanics and the plan for leadership skills and other modifiers.

Blog two will go into detail on the changes to Mining Foreman gameplay, including the Mining Foreman Bursts, changes to the

Rorqual and Orca, and the new Porpoise-class industrial command ship.

Blog three will focus on the balance tweaks being made to combat-focused boosting ships to release alongside the new system.

Blog four will be released right before the November release, covering all the changes to the plan we made thanks to your feedback and summarizing all the ship and module balance changes in the November release for easy reference.


As I read that all the dev blogs will be out way before november as that's when the changes go out. I'm guessing they will post one every 7-14 days from now on.
Drago Misharie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#680 - 2016-08-30 21:46:19 UTC
Pretagos Omilas wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:
Lonan O'Labhradha wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...
If you pounce on a mining fleet, what's the first thing you are going to do?

Especially knowing that everyone you let go will potentially re-ship into combat ships?

Prevent everyone from warping away.


If they're not AFK miners (which is a big if, mind you) the ships will be gone before you get there. Capital ships in the belt will usually have all entrances to the constellation monitored and be at least 2-3 jumps in. Of course, you can catch the stupid ones, but you already can catch those and always will be able to...

2-3 jumps? Ever heard of cepter fleets? You have 10-15 secs before tackled


So? You only need 2-4 seconds (including reaction time and server tick) to warp off (hit one button, that's all). Obviously you need to be aligned first..... Higgs anchor and friendly webs are your friends...

You really need to look at the context before posting, I was replying to someone else.