These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Raven

Author
Dante Graydon
Phoenix Connection
#1 - 2016-08-29 20:14:03 UTC
For a bit of fun I am building a raven to take around null sec (maybe low sec) looking for it to die in a fire but also hopefully take some ships down with me. My thoughts on the fit are...

- Rapid Lights as I think I will attract the attention of small ships and so what the ability to kill those, the explosion radius on Furys with the 1 rigor rig is 46.92

- Smart Bomb (I can change the type of SB) to clear drones, although I guess drones will need to orbit <5k for this to be effective, if that is not correct then any suggestions for a utility high would be welcome.

- AB as I will be scrammed and so gives more options to move.

- sensor booster in order to lock those smaller ships more quickly.

- 1 shield rep and 1 ancillary shield rep for well repairing my shield.

- as for tank I used 1 passive EM as that is the biggest hole and then went for buffer with the shield extenders, I am not sure if this is the correct way to go. The cap is quite low as it is so didnt want to fit more active stufff that would reduce that further.

- damage control for more EHP

- Shield Power Relay to boost those shield reppers

[Raven, Raven fit]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield Power Relay II
Damage Control II

100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Amplifier II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Large Proton Smartbomb I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Effective HP: 66,271 (Eve: 58,425)
Tank Ability: 412.79 DPS
Damage Profile - Omni-Damage (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 64.42%, Ex: 56.25%, Ki: 47.50%, Th: 51.00%
Armor Resists - EM: 57.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 53.25%

Capacitor Lasts 1m 44s

Volley Damage: 1,437.49
DPS: 384.89


May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#2 - 2016-08-29 21:56:53 UTC
Now I don't do battleships, but allow me to explain the flaws in your logic from the viewpoint of the ships you're aiming to kill with your RLMLs, as well as some related info about why you'll most likely die horribly before you can kill anything.

We'll start with the low slots. They're fine with the exception of your Shield Power Relay. Cap warfare is a huge part of battleship PVP, and you're gimping your cap to increase your shield boosters, one of which is dependant on your cap. Once your cap is gone, one of your boosters is useless, your smartbomb is defunct, and your prop mod turns off. You die.

Mids next. We'll start with the obvious, no tackle. Without a conveniently placed bubble to fight within, your targets will simply warp off when they're close to death. Without a web and/or grappler, you'll be losing DPS against smaller, faster targets (more on this later.) A sensor booster will decrease your lock speed, but not by much. You'll still be waiting 10+ seconds to lock frigates. It would be better used for something else (though carrying an ECCM script as well might make it worth the effort.) Both of your shield boosters are undersized (you want XL, not L) for the hull you're using and it's rarely advisable (if ever) to mix a standard shield booster and an anciliary one. Double up on ancils and reload one while the other is repping, individually they are significantly more effective than a tech 1 shield booster without spending money on deadspace modules. They are also capless providing they have charges, whereas your standard shield booster is not. For the record, a single XLASB tanks more DPS than both your large boosters combined. Shield Extenders and Shield Boosters are generally a bad idea (there are rare exceptions.) Afterburner is fine I guess, you see a lot of solo BS fits that drop the prop mod entirely unless they're built around bonuses. Even with a prop mod, you're not going to be winning any races and without a web you're still slower than just about everything out there. What you're missing is an MJD, which provides substantially more flexibility in movement. Bubbled? MJD out. Being kited by frigates or cruisers? MJD out. Any situation where you're not scrammed and you're dying, the MJD saves your bacon. Learn to love it. The mere possibility that you have one fitted will force ships into scram/web range, increasing your chances to kill them. Once they realise you don't have one, you can all but forget anyone sacrificing themselves to hold scram on you.

Now the highs. RLMLs are great for killing small ships, you're right. Yet anything bigger than a destroyer will laugh in your face. Doubly so because they're entirely unbonused on the Raven. An Interceptor will sit on the edge of point range and speed tank your missiles entirely. At best you can hope to kill an inattentive frigate pilot or two trying to keep your scrammed. Your smartbomb will clear drones, but not tackle, and they're your biggest threat. A Heavy neut on the other hand will spell almost instant death for small ships within about 30km of your own. When I lose an Interceptor tackling something, it's almost always to a heavy neuting battleship. Coupled with a long point, a web, and/or a grappler, your chances of killing frigates with larger weapon systems increases drastically. Heavy Missiles and Drones (which you've omitted entirely, and you really shouldn't) will still chew through frigates that can't escape.

As for Drones, you have enough space for a full flight of mediums and lights, and should carry both. Keep them alive for as long as possible, as trying to kil lthem will keep at least a portion of incoming DPS focused on them and not you.

Enjoy your wall of text.
Dante Graydon
Phoenix Connection
#3 - 2016-08-30 14:39:08 UTC
hi May

Thanks for your wall, all excellent points very well made. I shall (extensively) readjust that fit and re-post it (assuming I can get one that works...ish

Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#4 - 2016-08-30 16:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobb Bobbington
While you're fixing your fit, I just want to say one thing. Focus on a specific area of stuff. Don't go all out and try to fit every type of tank. Go buffer, or go dual xl ancillaries, or go xl booster with cap charges. But don't. Do. Everything.

Also you'll want rhml instead of rlml because rlml isn't bonused.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Dante Graydon
Phoenix Connection
#5 - 2016-08-30 21:23:33 UTC
Hello May and Bobb, baring in mind I've had wa to much Bourbon and Cognac, how does this look compared to the previous fit, I feel I am heading in the right direction.

[Raven, Raven fit]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Stasis Webifier II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II
Thermal Dissipation Amplifier II
EM Ward Amplifier II
EM Ward Amplifier II

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Nova Precision Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Nova Precision Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Nova Precision Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Nova Precision Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Nova Precision Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Nova Precision Heavy Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

Hammerhead II x5
Acolyte II x5

Effective HP: 58,428 (Eve: 52,104)
Tank Ability: 614.50 DPS
Damage Profile - (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 70.70%, Ex: 69.38%, Ki: 63.25%, Th: 61.50%
Armor Resists - EM: 57.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 53.25%

Capacitor (Stable at 23.26%)

Volley Damage: 2,075.73
DPS: 807.39

Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#6 - 2016-08-30 23:50:47 UTC
You're a step in the right direction for sure, but you don't need the capacitor module if you're going ancillary repairer. I suspect it's because you want cap stability. But cap stability is a myth unless you're running missions. You don't need it in most cases, and none of those cases are applicable to you. If you're getting low on cap, just turn off the neut and mwd. If somebody starts to neut you instead there's nothing a flux coil will do to change the fact your tackle is about to get turned off. 2 minutes and 40 seconds (the time on a fit I'm about to show you) is a very long time for pvp.

You're also going to need two ancillaries. You'll die very quickly with a single one because you won't survive the reload. The idea behind two, is that you run the first one and only the first one until it's out of charges. Then, as that one is repairing you start using the second one, and then you keep that up juggling back and forth between reload cycles.

You're also going to want to use invulns instead of specific passive hardeners. Yes they use cap, but none of your weapon or tank systems do so you shouldn't run out of cap that quickly. Specific hardeners are a waste of slots.

I fit up an example fit of something that I might run myself

Highs

6x RHML II- Fit with scourge rage. Change missiles depending on scenario (precision or faction for tracking, rage against slow and heavy ****)
1x Heavy neut II

Mids

500mn enduring MWD
Scrambler II
Web II
2 X-Large ancillary armor repairers
Adaptive invuln II
Shield boost amplifier II

Low

DCU II
2x ballistic controls
1x missile guidance enhancer
1x co-processor II

Rigs

Anti- EM I
Anti- Thermal I
Processor overclocker I


There's some room for tinkering on this fit, if you drop the neut you can also drop the overclock rig if you have perfect CPU skills (I mean perfect 100%, the CPU is 99.93%)
The rig is there to give you the heavy neut, but it also gives you spare room to change the guidance enhancer into a third ballistic control if you think more dps is a better idea than better application against small targets

With perfect skills...

Cap life is 2m 40s
DPS 1024 cold with rage and hammerhead II's
One overheated booster (make sure to overheat your boosters) can run 915.8 ehp/s for 45 seconds. After that switch to your second and continue the fight as your first reloads.
Resists- EM 54.7, therm 63.8, kin 63.3, exp 69.4 (lowish because there's a boost amp instead of another invuln)


Now this was only about 6-7 minutes of pyfa worth, so there are probably improvements to be had on it, but this would be a fairly standard dual xl-asb fit and patterns like this can be repeated on a lot of ships. This does't get a lot of tank, because the raven doesn't have a tank bonus, but feel free to throw in some drugs and it might survive for a while.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#7 - 2016-08-31 00:13:50 UTC
As Bobb correctly pointed out, cap stability isn't a huge deal in PVP. My previous point about capacitor warfare being important was focused around your heavy cap usage and lack of your own nos/neut. Generally speaking, the mid-slot modules for improving your capacitor life are preferred as they have no drawbacks (unless you count reload time as a drawback, which you will when you die because you're reloading something.)

[Raven, Raven - Dual XLASB]

Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Karelin Scoped Stasis Grappler
Warp Disruptor II

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I


Acolyte II x5
Hammerhead II x5

Compare your own fits with ours, I had this thrown together before I replied, but simply throwing a fit at someone and telling them this is how it's done rarely helps. Invest in some blue pills, and overheat each booster, along with your invuln (you can't overheat your ward amps) when required.
Dante Graydon
Phoenix Connection
#8 - 2016-08-31 06:05:27 UTC
Hi Both again, thanks, ill take a look at these fits, I may even try both

Thanks again

D
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#9 - 2016-09-02 01:13:38 UTC
I like the Raven, but I like hull tanked typhoons better.

Rapid heavies and do asb's, blue pill and mid grade crystals will make your tank crazy when you inevitably attract the attention of locals.

I would almost go with a faction scram over a long point, you will have plenty of ships diving and it will give you a counter to GTFO when it comes time to mjd.
Dante Graydon
Phoenix Connection
#10 - 2016-09-02 06:15:03 UTC
I will not be using crystals, but certainly will be using a pill.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#11 - 2016-09-04 06:04:00 UTC
Dante Graydon wrote:
I will not be using crystals, but certainly will be using a pill.


Crystals minus omega can be obtained for about the price of the hull, and the difference is noticeable.
Dante Graydon
Phoenix Connection
#12 - 2016-09-05 19:10:35 UTC
message re the crystals something to consider

on another note would FOF missiles work better with this as no need to lock
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2016-09-06 02:09:06 UTC
Dante Graydon wrote:
message re the crystals something to consider

on another note would FOF missiles work better with this as no need to lock


Maybe carry a few in cargo in case of ecm but dont use it as primary ammo, its too easy to be manipulated into uselessness

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome