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[September] Mining Barge and Exhumer tweaks

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Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#301 - 2016-08-29 16:56:33 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
A Ore Strip Miner costs around 150M ISK.
Fitting one to a Skiff is maybe the risk worth.
But fitting two is a little bit insane.

Are you planning to reduce the prices for the modules? Maybe half them?


Come on man seriously how many people run these things, and of those that do, how many die? It's no secret that there are huge botting networks running miners 24/7... you think that as soon as you enter local these things don't just run away to their safe?
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#302 - 2016-08-29 18:46:04 UTC
Indirectly related, but can we get the tentative specs on the Porpoise now that we're getting a new mining hull?

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/command-bursts/

Quote:
Porpoise (NEW)


Can fit two Command Burst modules

+1% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst Strength and Duration per skill level
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#303 - 2016-08-29 19:57:48 UTC
Okay here we go :)

Likes:
1 - New Art - cool
2 - New Skins - cool variety is the spice of life
3 - 2 Strips - cool


Dislikes:
1 - New Skins - why do they all have to be so dark? I mean I LOVE the changed ORE Developement one but the rest are all too darkish. When can i get my all white orca? or my bright red skiff ?

2 - Ore lasers and strippers - why can't these be better than t2 ? or at least have crystal options ? maybe a set of ORE mining crystals ?

3 - Please make the Proc/Skiff class have an even number ore hold so that your not wasting a strip now.

Would like to have seen:

1 - ore cargo expanders and or ore cargo rigs - you could balance the overall ore holds downwards and then provide a new fitting so people can make choices. Some may make their mack even larger and forgo a tank....which for gankers is gravy.

2 - Rainbow crystals :) we have colors for the laser beams lets bring them to the mining profession - i want my rainbow fleet. (adjusts pink feather boa)

3 - More faction ORE type fittings - ORE faction MLU's , ORE mining Crystals etc... and have ORE stations in high sec so people can actually get and use these types of things.

That's it for now :)

Cheers
~R~
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#304 - 2016-08-30 02:27:59 UTC
And now I'm wondering what range of FW plexes the Procurer can fit into, because of reasons. Med/large?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#305 - 2016-08-30 08:28:24 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
And now I'm wondering what range of FW plexes the Procurer can fit into, because of reasons. Med/large?



Barges are medium hulls.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Abadayos
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#306 - 2016-08-30 11:42:04 UTC
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Indirectly related, but can we get the tentative specs on the Porpoise now that we're getting a new mining hull?

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/command-bursts/

Quote:
Porpoise (NEW)


Can fit two Command Burst modules

+1% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst Strength and Duration per skill level




Yes we can, in the next dev blog as was stated in the dev blog you linked
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#307 - 2016-08-30 12:08:45 UTC
T2 fitted Rorqual = +102,38 % range / -43,88 cycle time or volatility
T2 fitted Orca = +75.47 % / -32,34 % cycle time or volatility
Anthar Thebess
#308 - 2016-08-30 12:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Make all ORE miners use much, much less cap per activation, like 1/4th of the current value.
This will make them unique - and desired.

Free Rorqual ore and ship bay - allow all ships, and all cargo.
It will be still worst than JF or carrier, but will offer new possibilities, including to reship all miners to PVP ship - as rorqual will be sitting on the belt.

Instead of rorqual dedicated mining drones, make them fighters, and allow rorqual to carry also other fighters - just not much as carrier.
At the same time allow carriers to use this mining fighters, just without bonuses.

This will open so many new possibilities in the game and create very funny situations - like mining supercarriers.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Sylphy
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
#309 - 2016-08-30 13:18:22 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
like mining supercarriers.


My mining titan agrees.

The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.
Avon Salinder
#310 - 2016-08-30 13:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Avon Salinder
I like these improvements in general, but I feel a little differently about the popularity of the various ships at this time. The procurer & skiff are really tough (120k HP from a skiff!) but the others are sorely lacking in survivability in any security level of space. My suggestion is to adjust the numbers a little more as noted below, chasing the "balance dragon" as it were:

Procurer:
-3000 structure hit points (armour and shield are plenty at this point, contrasts with the retriever's bonus)
Mining Barge Bonuses (per level):
2% reduced strip miner & ice harvester duration
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage & mining yield
* Moved the role bonus to a per level bonus and added mining drone yield bonus to make up a little for its 2 low slot layout).

Retriever:
20000 ore hold (flat amount, bringing it down a bit to make the other ships in class a bit more attractive)
+1500 structure hit points (along with the hull bonus, provides extra toughness in a way that makes a damage control much more interesting)
+1 mid slot (and a tiny bit of cpu, enough to mount a survey scanner and a small extender perhaps)
Mining Barge Bonuses (per level):
2% reduced strip miner & ice harvester duration
+10% structure hitpoints (tougher, balance with less ore capacity in a way that makes you consider a DC over a mining upgrade)

Covetor
+1000 ore hold (nice even number for ice mining with two harvesters)
+1000 shield hit points (it's just too wafer thin at this point, plus yield is slightly less on covetor)
+1 mid slot (and a tiny bit of cpu, enough to mount a survey scanner and a small extender perhaps)
Mining Barge Bonuses (per level):
6% reduced strip miner & ice harvester duration and capacitor use(folded role bonus into here, overall a bit less yield for covetor but more with the hulk, overall same end result.
+10% agility per level (it survives by getting the hell out of there, builds on current better than average agility).

Skiff:
+1000 ore hold (nice even number for ice mining with two harvesters)
-3000 structure hit points
Exhumer bonuses (per level):
2% reduced strip miner & ice harvester duration
5% bonus to ship shield hitpoints
Role Bonus:
20% bonus to all shield resistances (Similar to what you did with the heavy dictors).
* Skiff with drone mining yield bonus can bring in more than a mackinaw, but lacks the ore hold, or the range and bonused strips of a hulk.

Mackinaw:
20000 ore hold
+2000 structure hit points
Exhumer bonuses (per level):
2% reduced strip miner & ice harvester duration
10% ore hold capacity (overall a bit less than current, balanced with extra toughness)
Role Bonus:
20% bonus to all shield resistances

Hulk:
+1500 shield hit points
Exhumer bonuses (per level):
4% reduced strip miner & ice harvester duration (total amount is same as current)
5% bonus to strip miner and ice harvester range (more useful on exhumer than barge)
Role Bonus:
20% bonus to all shield resistances

Food for thought :)
Dor Cadmon
New Artisian and Mercenary Association
#311 - 2016-08-30 15:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Dor Cadmon
This is not meant to be a doom and gloom statement but of fact.

Since you made the minng barge changes and now these rorq nerf changes miners in my community have already started unsubbing.

No one who comes from the current mining community is going to like the new on grid rorq.


And my piece of feed back on the skiff I saw on test server was why does it look so dark and dirty? And why does it have exhaust coming out of it like its venting into an atmosphere.


CCP do you play test the mining or just assume you know what its all about because its starring at rocks?


You may gain new subs out of this change but this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back for a lot us.



Also have you ever heard of the idea if its not broke dont fix it? I have not seen any valid reason to update the miners other than you had it on your plate to do so.

this is irritating a lot of people!
Nikos Stromboli
Blue Magic Holding
#312 - 2016-08-30 20:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikos Stromboli
As an Ice Harvesting Skiff pilot, my biggest problem is the odd ore bay the Skiff will have, despite having an even number of lasers.
This means I'll either have to leave the belt without being full, or suffer a halved mining rate for the last cycle.

The Skiff ore bay should be increased to 16k to compensate.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2016-08-30 21:39:08 UTC
Nikos Stromboli wrote:
As an Ice Harvesting Skiff pilot, my biggest problem is the odd ore bay the Skiff will have, despite having an even number of lasers.
This means either I'll either have to leave the belt without being full, or suffer a halved mining rate for the last cycle.

The Skiff ore bay should be increased to 16k to compensate.




That actually seems like a valid complaint, in terms of things to complain about with this excuse of a 'patch'

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#314 - 2016-08-30 23:23:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
And now I'm wondering what range of FW plexes the Procurer can fit into, because of reasons. Med/large?



Barges are medium hulls.


I should have expected it. With the current state of FW, could be useful in some cases.
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
#315 - 2016-08-31 05:11:11 UTC
Nikos Stromboli wrote:
As an Ice Harvesting Skiff pilot, my biggest problem is the odd ore bay the Skiff will have, despite having an even number of lasers.
This means either I'll either have to leave the belt without being full, or suffer a halved mining rate for the last cycle.

The Skiff ore bay should be increased to 16k to compensate.


Frankly, when I use a Skiff for Ice (quite frequent), I usually jetcan. But this is a valid point, and it's not an unreasonable solution.
Avon Salinder
#316 - 2016-09-01 06:14:33 UTC
Just to put barge/exhumer usage into a better frame of reference, when you group them by role (resilience, yield & capacity) you get a better idea of how they're being used:

Retriever/Mackinaw: 45%
Hulk/Covetor: 28%
Skiff/Procurer: 22%

Capacity is the clear winner here.
RiotRick
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#317 - 2016-09-01 06:21:07 UTC
All these changes make sense except procurers having no capability to fit a cyno. This is truly a game breaking experience for certain groups. Procurers and battle barges should continue to be a viable playable experience.



CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks! As we first mentioned at Fanfest this year, we have a visual revamp in the works for Mining Barges and Exhumers (along with many other ships) to continue improving EVE's amazing visuals.

This pass on the barges allowed the art team to fulfill a long-standing request from the game design team. Way back in 2012 when CCP Tallest implemented the big tiericide of mining barges the three branches of barges were changed to have similar mining yields and specific specializations (defenses, storage capacity and range/yield). At that time Tallest added role bonuses to the Procurer, Skiff, Retriever, and Mackinaw to bring their effective strip miner count into the same general range. He also asked the art team to make a note that next time the Barges and Exhumers were up for a regularly scheduled visual refresh they should be unified at the same number of strip miner hardpoints. That day has now come!

To compliment the art rework we are completing a light pass on the stats and bonuses of these ships and of the strip miner modules themselves. The balance between the mining ships is in a fairly healthy state right now so we're not making any drastic changes to the relative strengths of the different barges and exhumers.

For a bit of insight into the current usage of the top 7 mining ships, here's the breakdown of mining yield by volume (last 90 days including ore, ice, and gas):
  • Retriever: 23%
  • Mackinaw: 22%
  • Hulk: 21%
  • Skiff: 14%
  • Procurer: 8%
  • Covetor: 7%
  • Venture: 4%
  • Other: 1%

Unsurprisingly the Retriever and Mackinaw are still on top (unchanged from the last time we presented these stats) due to the very high value placed on ore bay capacity among a solid chunk of miners. However we don't feel any need to reduce the power of Retrievers and Mackinaws, as their popularity isn't out of control and other alternatives have their own well-balanced strengths.

The overall mining yields of the Procurer, Skiff, Retriever, and Mackinaw remain unchanged after this pass. The Covetor and Hulk will gain a lowslot which allows some new options and the potential of greater yield (although fittings will be appropriately tight when using three MLUs).

As part of this change we are increasing the yield of all barge-sized strip miners and ice harvesters, which cancels out the changes to hardpoints and bonuses on the Barges and Exhumers. We are also providing a moderate buff to the ORE Strip Miners and ORE Ice Harvesters.

The module changes in full are:
  • All Non-ORE Strip Miners: +25% volume mined per cycle
  • ORE Strip Miner: +30% volume mined per cycle, -10 CPU
  • All Ice Harvesters: -20% cycle time, -20% capacitor use
  • ORE Ice Harvester: -16 CPU

And the ship changes:

Procurer:
Removal of strip miner yield and ice harvester cycle time role bonuses
+1 highslot
+7 PWG
+55 CPU

Skiff:
Removal of strip miner yield and ice harvester cycle time role bonuses
+1 highslot
+8 PWG
+60 CPU

Retriever:
Removal of strip miner yield and ice harvester cycle time role bonuses

Mackinaw:
Removal of strip miner yield and ice harvester cycle time role bonuses

Covetor:
Changed skill bonus for the skill Mining Barge: 2% (was 4%) reduction in strip miner and ice harvester duration per level
New role bonus: 25% reduction in strip miner and ice harvester duration and activation cost
-1 highslot
+1 lowslot
-5 PWG
-15 CPU

Hulk:
Changed skill bonus for the skill Mining Barge: 2% (was 4%) reduction in strip miner and ice harvester duration per level
New role bonus: 25% reduction in strip miner and ice harvester duration and activation cost
-1 highslot
+1 lowslot
-5 PWG
-40 CPU

We're very interested in your feedback and welcome you to try out the new stats (and new ship models) on SISI.
Thanks!
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#318 - 2016-09-01 07:38:28 UTC
Where did you read you can't fit a cyno? It's even getting 55CPU extra for that web and longpoint, and the second high allows for a neut/nos?
Asa Takamoto
Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time
Solyaris Chtonium
#319 - 2016-09-01 08:35:09 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Where did you read you can't fit a cyno? It's even getting 55CPU extra for that web and longpoint, and the second high allows for a neut/nos?


We used SiSi. It gives you a error message saying "you can't fit a cynosural field generator I to procurer".


Also CCP gotta be consequent either we're playing in the sandbox and there's no intended usage or it's not a sandbox and everything need to go intended use. I'm looking at you wormholers ;)
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#320 - 2016-09-01 09:18:16 UTC
Yeah. Just saw the screenshot on reddit. This sucks balls man.

SAVE OUR CYNO!