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Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

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IbbnSaifun
Brotherhood of Fire and Steel
#401 - 2016-08-30 05:43:18 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Steroidastroid Ormand wrote:
I can repeat that 150km should be the minimum range, IMHO...


But can you justify why you should be able to have a ship in a central position able to apply boosts to two ships 300km apart? Not why it's convenient to only need that one ship doing it, mind you, but why it's preferable for people to be able to do that, rather than having boosters in among the ships they're boosting?


Easily - if you can scan an entire system to locate people real time that means you have FTL capabilities for 2 way systems - if they are gonna make this system actual - they need to appropriately NERF the real time scan for entire systems beyond BOOST ranges as proposed as that's only one way for effects. Logic duh.

While I've been playing for not so long compared to some I've always more enjoyed the mining / industrial side of the game and the solo or small corp life, but it seems every time a big change comes along the miners get kicked to curb, again.

For all of you who enjoy the Adrenalin rush of combat - well hurray! But, it's not required to pounded into the same box as everyone either. Damn CCP you take a wonderful game and just feel like you need to change things to justify your chairs which doesn't actually always make it BETTER. Additional complexity does not equal improvement.

Retirements coming up this October, I guess I'm cutting from 3 paying accounts to 1 or none, and I'll find something else to play with like real projectile weapons...
Silven Rubis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#402 - 2016-08-30 05:43:57 UTC
Drago Misharie wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'm really excited that we're finally this close to such a highly anticipated feature rework! After so many discussions with so many of you about what the new system needs, we're finally almost here.


...

If so, isn't this going to make it even harder to avoid people from being able to warp right in on your booster?

Seems like this is going to be a nice cluster of ships for stealth bombers to take out.


Yhea it's not ment to be fair - the baby lamp has to be butchered
Lord Mudeki
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#403 - 2016-08-30 05:45:12 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Tess Storm wrote:

Why not make the game fun again, stop making everything difficult.

Wait you said fun again... as in afk mining? Fun really, is that what kids are calling it these days.



I don't afk mine never have I used 6 accounts to mine with but with these changes I'm letting 3 unsub as I wont be mining anymore not putting a rorq in a belt
Drago Misharie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#404 - 2016-08-30 05:47:10 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:

If so, isn't this going to make it even harder to avoid people from being able to warp right in on your booster?

That is kinda of the point. To make boosting harder and more risky.

As for size of belts and everything. Travel in a group perhaps. You know kinda of like a fleet of mining ships with support ships, even some anti gank support, stripping all ore from one end to the other, in that order. Rather than say having one ship 150km "over there". In actual fleets we call that "Dafuq dat guy doin'?".


Can't wait for the complaints about all the buffs this brings to cloaky campers.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#405 - 2016-08-30 05:50:09 UTC
Drago Misharie wrote:

Can't wait for the complaints about all the buffs this brings to cloaky campers.

How does this affect cloaky campers (btw i am one from time to time. Only way to bait a fight in null instadock anyone in local space).

You can't even run links now cloaked. You won't be able to activate the mods cloaked. So i don't really see what your saying.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Drago Misharie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#406 - 2016-08-30 05:53:13 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:

Can't wait for the complaints about all the buffs this brings to cloaky campers.

How does this affect cloaky campers (btw i am one from time to time. Only way to bait a fight in null instadock anyone in local space).

You can't even run links now cloaked. You won't be able to activate the mods cloaked. So i don't really see what your saying.

Mining ships purposefully don't cluster to prevent bombing runs but with this change, they will have to. Most cloaky campers are in stealth bombers.
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#407 - 2016-08-30 05:54:03 UTC
the bad things with all this updats they plan, is that it have only 1 focus to blowe up more valubal ships.but in the end it will just be a lott less of those ships used in the game,they shift the risk vs reward aspect so fare from good.,it's not exactly good as it is now.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#408 - 2016-08-30 05:55:30 UTC
Lord Mudeki wrote:

I don't afk mine never have I used 6 accounts to mine with but with these changes I'm letting 3 unsub as I wont be mining anymore not putting a rorq in a belt

but that is the problem that most want fixed. This 100% safe rorq thing that you think you should have. It was never meant to be that way and CCP have been saying for years that this is *going* to change. And *lots* of people have been howling for this change for years. Calling off grid boosting cancer etc....

The mistake made was letting you have a 100% safe rorq in the first place so that you have unrealistic expectations.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Lord Mudeki
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#409 - 2016-08-30 05:59:09 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Lord Mudeki wrote:

I don't afk mine never have I used 6 accounts to mine with but with these changes I'm letting 3 unsub as I wont be mining anymore not putting a rorq in a belt

but that is the problem that most want fixed. This 100% safe rorq thing that you think you should have. It was never meant to be that way and CCP have been saying for years that this is *going* to change. And *lots* of people have been howling for this change for years. Calling off grid boosting cancer etc....

The mistake made was letting you have a 100% safe rorq in the first place so that you have unrealistic expectations.


Whatever Ill be laughing all the way to jita market when prices skyrocket and I'm selling my stockpiles for even more profit
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#410 - 2016-08-30 06:00:22 UTC
Drago Misharie wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:

Can't wait for the complaints about all the buffs this brings to cloaky campers.

How does this affect cloaky campers (btw i am one from time to time. Only way to bait a fight in null instadock anyone in local space).

You can't even run links now cloaked. You won't be able to activate the mods cloaked. So i don't really see what your saying.

Mining ships purposefully don't cluster to prevent bombing runs but with this change, they will have to. Most cloaky campers are in stealth bombers.

A single stealth bomber can't do much (10k in one bomb if your sig is bigger than 300m). If there are 20 extra in local i am pretty sure your going to be long gone. With the exception of blops. but then you guys dock up if there is *anyone else* in local. So not really buying it.

And there is a difference between clustering and all being warping distance away from each other.

Bear in mind that we have all said that 15km is too small. But over 100km is a bit over the top outside caps as well.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Drago Misharie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#411 - 2016-08-30 06:04:33 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:

Can't wait for the complaints about all the buffs this brings to cloaky campers.

How does this affect cloaky campers (btw i am one from time to time. Only way to bait a fight in null instadock anyone in local space).

You can't even run links now cloaked. You won't be able to activate the mods cloaked. So i don't really see what your saying.

Mining ships purposefully don't cluster to prevent bombing runs but with this change, they will have to. Most cloaky campers are in stealth bombers.

A single stealth bomber can't do much (10k in one bomb if your sig is bigger than 300m). If there are 20 extra in local i am pretty sure your going to be long gone. With the exception of blops. but then you guys dock up if there is *anyone else* in local. So not really buying it.

And there is a difference between clustering and all being warping distance away from each other.

Bear in mind that we have all said that 15km is too small. But over 100km is a bit over the top outside caps as well.

One Stealth Bomber can take out a fleet of macks or retrievers easily with a single bomb. Just aim for to boosting ship with all the sweet targets clustered around it.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#412 - 2016-08-30 06:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Mike Azariah wrote:
Big fleets in null? Yeah, it is going to be a new skill set and not an alt of the fc. Someone is go9ing to have to fly and fly well. Baybe even doctrines that specify how many command ships will be needed. Rolling buffs throughout the fleet with the occasional Boosh for good effect.

I have a couple of problems with this:
  1. Tidi: In bigger null sec fights, I play in potato mode with 1 FPS, which means I can not do anything at all. My machine is not the fastest gaming beast, that is for sure, but it should be around the performance average that many people use. This rules out a lot of players for this role because they could not do the "boosh" and warp out or in or broadcast for reps or do anything but die.
  2. Killmails: That goes for all kinds of fleets. These people will likely not get on a lot of killmails, if any at all. It is already hard to get people into logistics, which are undeniably equally or more important than boosts. It won't get better when even more people need to sacrifice their KB for something that is potentially worthless because of how the fight goes (see above).
  3. Skills in general: I was in a fleet in the recent past that could not leave because it was lacking certain booster pilots and their ships. Since these new "boosh" boosts require skills to increase their range, high skill levels in these are even more important than in the past. That rules out more people.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#413 - 2016-08-30 06:10:07 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Drago Misharie wrote:

Can't wait for the complaints about all the buffs this brings to cloaky campers.

How does this affect cloaky campers (btw i am one from time to time. Only way to bait a fight in null instadock anyone in local space).

You can't even run links now cloaked. You won't be able to activate the mods cloaked. So i don't really see what your saying.

Mining ships purposefully don't cluster to prevent bombing runs but with this change, they will have to. Most cloaky campers are in stealth bombers.

A single stealth bomber can't do much (10k in one bomb if your sig is bigger than 300m). If there are 20 extra in local i am pretty sure your going to be long gone. With the exception of blops. but then you guys dock up if there is *anyone else* in local. So not really buying it.

And there is a difference between clustering and all being warping distance away from each other.

Bear in mind that we have all said that 15km is too small. But over 100km is a bit over the top outside caps as well.

The problem is the price on mining ships/orca roq,compared to the cost for gankers to take them down.and the actual time you have to mine to replace them if lost,this is somthing most gankers dont seem to grasp.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#414 - 2016-08-30 06:17:05 UTC
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:

The problem is the price on mining ships/orca roq,compared to the cost for gankers to take them down.and the actual time you have to mine to replace them if lost,this is somthing most gankers dont seem to grasp.

Well we mined, and even in the wormhole. But the problem there is too much supply makes ore very cheap. So per hour its not great income. Making mining easier or less risky will simply reduce the price via increased supply of ore and your not improving your lot.

mining per hour is crap because there are soo many risk adverse afk miners selling so much ore (and a thing that goes ping with an extra in local so you can mash the dock button is still afk.)

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#415 - 2016-08-30 06:19:19 UTC
Why are you going with ammo for command boosts instead of scripts?
Is that supposed to be some sort of balancing mechanism?

On a side note; it's neat to see the nearly useless mining cap use boost rolled into a different boost and replaced with something actually useful.
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#416 - 2016-08-30 06:19:41 UTC
Please reconsider the range limitation. A command destroyer has less than 30km range with max skills and a command ship less than 60km. This only works for fleets that anchor. That can't really be what you want I hope.
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#417 - 2016-08-30 06:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: DeODokktor
And I am not sure how this helps "solo" or "small" groups. Now they will find it easier to kill 10 perhaps random players "shooting" bonuses to others instead of scanning down a weaker ship sitting on its own in space or a POS... Okay, yea that sounds easier to me.

Wouldn't the simpler move have been to just force the command ships to be on grid, AND beef them up in some way that lowers their risk of death. Cause lets be honest, command ships, rorquals, command t3's and such all have generally gimped setups. Now your just hoping that we will see 20 non-gimped versions in the fleet all "shooting" their own fleet members.

*Edited because, UGH, I had a complete mis-understanding about something here - DOH. But the rest still seems valid to me. Unless I am still understanding correctly. In essence you could have 20 people being the "booster" right?
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#418 - 2016-08-30 06:24:30 UTC
Drago Misharie wrote:

One Stealth Bomber can take out a fleet of macks or retrievers easily with a single bomb. Just aim for to boosting ship with all the sweet targets clustered around it.

Only if you fit for nothing but yield. IIRC our macks had much more than 10k EHP. Not to mention that in hostile space they kind of are not the most optimal ship. There is a mining ship that can take real beatings. But again, you expect all the cakes all at once, max yields, max tanks, max everything, 100% safe. While everyone else has to compromise fits.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#419 - 2016-08-30 06:25:49 UTC
DeODokktor wrote:
So your going to need to target every ship in your fleet, and "shoot" each one of them with one of these boost.


You may want to try reading the dev blog first....

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#420 - 2016-08-30 06:26:10 UTC
Lord Mudeki wrote:
I don't afk mine never have I used 6 accounts to mine with but with these changes I'm letting 3 unsub as I wont be mining anymore not putting a rorq in a belt

I am not sure why you need perfect mining boosts to mine. You will even get a new ship which will probably a very agile mining boost ship specially designed for dangerous space.

The highest boosts should be reserved for the people who are willing to take the higher risk of putting their valuable assets on the table. I am sure there will be players who will take this risk and organize the defense should the rorq get in trouble. Those people seriously deserve a better buff than those who can't be arsed to defend themselves.

All the whiners quitting over this just means more value for the people who are willing to adapt and don't just demand perfect boost for zero risk.

Evil RatKid