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Ideas for EVE 2.0
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Solecist Project
#61 - 2016-08-27 08:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Try this angle, to break his cage...

Why would they lie intentionally?
Why do you believe you´re the good guy here and they lie to you?
What would they gain?


Seriously, the cognitive bias here is insane...

They didn't lie. They likely unintentionally choose the wrong data set or were trying to test an assertion that had nothing to do with total number of people quitting over suicide ganking.

As I already explained, I produced facts, verifiable from Baltec1's killboard, that on the last day of his ganking in highsec, he killed 15 people, NONE of his victims was 15 days old or less.

While a small sample, it equates to 100% on that day, if extrapolated and the pattern reproduces which it almost certainly will, it shows that CCP's survey was pointless and all it proved is what we already know: Ganking newbs is pointless which is why most gank freighters, orca's and indies.

Okay, CCP lied about their data and you try to spin that with words.

Then you come up with a seriously irrelevant sample due to coming from one person and put it above CCPs sample of 80.000 people and because it's from you obviously it's totally unbiased and correct. I'll leave aside that you make no sense at all.

CCP obviously wants to hide something from you all.
Or us. Maybe it's us.

It's a big conspiracy.
A really big one!

I get it now!
Thank you for enlightening me, oh great person with a young crying woman as profile pic thag looks either beaten up or drugged!

What would we do without your high intellect and moral superiority!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#62 - 2016-08-27 09:06:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Seriously though, what's their gain?

They nerf suicide ganking and mercwork in highsec ...
... and you claim there's a conspiracy going against carebears.

That's backwards.

So, what's the gain, considering in the past nerfs?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2016-08-27 09:17:29 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Try this angle, to break his cage...

Why would they lie intentionally?
Why do you believe you´re the good guy here and they lie to you?
What would they gain?


Seriously, the cognitive bias here is insane...

They didn't lie. They likely unintentionally choose the wrong data set or were trying to test an assertion that had nothing to do with total number of people quitting over suicide ganking.

As I already explained, I produced facts, verifiable from Baltec1's killboard, that on the last day of his ganking in highsec, he killed 15 people, NONE of his victims was 15 days old or less.

While a small sample, it equates to 100% on that day, if extrapolated and the pattern reproduces which it almost certainly will, it shows that CCP's survey was pointless and all it proved is what we already know: Ganking newbs is pointless which is why most gank freighters, orca's and indies.

Okay, CCP lied about their data and you try to spin that with words.

Then you come up with a seriously irrelevant sample due to coming from one person and put it above CCPs sample of 80.000 people and because it's from you obviously it's totally unbiased and correct. I'll leave aside that you make no sense at all.

CCP obviously wants to hide something from you all.
Or us. Maybe it's us.

It's a big conspiracy.
A really big one!

I get it now!
Thank you for enlightening me, oh great person with a young crying woman as profile pic thag looks either beaten up or drugged!

What would we do without your high intellect and moral superiority!

Ignorant white noise..... do something useful and disprove my data, plenty of it on Zkill. How do I know, I like facts and looked it up.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Solecist Project
#64 - 2016-08-27 09:20:54 UTC
LOL your data!
No, I will just do as you do and pretend THAT IT'S A CONSPIRACY AGAINST ME.

What exactly is your "data" of irrelevant sample size proving anyway?
I must have missed the connection between CCPs claims you ignore, because they don't fit into your narrow mind, and what baltec1's killboard has to do with it.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2016-08-27 09:51:08 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
LOL your data!
No, I will just do as you do and pretend THAT IT'S A CONSPIRACY AGAINST ME.

What exactly is your "data" of irrelevant sample size proving anyway?
I must have missed the connection between CCPs claims you ignore, because they don't fit into your narrow mind, and what baltec1's killboard has to do with it.

You missed more than that...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2016-08-27 17:01:46 UTC
You looked up baltec1's KB. thats hardly a good slice of data. The miniscule number of t1 ships i found all have players still playing. You have picked a very bad example, and no matter how you "extrapolate it" to make yourself seem smart it is not indicitive or or even relatable to your segway. These deaths are occurring in 0.0 space, most ships are t2 and in large corporations, or are pos mods(my sympathies for his time).

Baltec1 isn't interested in shooting newbies, they're boring. Boredom is what causes players to quit, heres anecdotal stuff(much like your facts and in depth research):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/38szfk/why_do_people_quit_eve_in_your_experience/

And then there is the truely autisic(Certainly has my respect for that) Greedy Goblin

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.ca/2015/03/gank-for-better-player-retention.html

and because everyone loves graphs:

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.ca/2014/06/the-graph-that-didnt-shrink.html

Now go play pretend victim like you play pretend researcher and pretend to quit. again.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2016-08-27 17:15:46 UTC
OH, and to keep it on topic, and not about attention-desperate-vicitms, Eve "loses" players because it is not ahdh enough.

So in eve 2.0 lets make all of the solar systems into 16-bit flat maps with warp buttons that only land us on other players, and damage is done by complimenting other people graciously in local.

You can warp to any point of the universe instantly, and put up a flag saying this is mine that others cant take down without complimenting it, and running a mini bullethell pve game. Then either side can compliment each other and go off to the next instant activity requiring no planning, foresight, loss, punishment, property.

I could go on, but the entire idea of this particular post is to be silly, just like the thread. Oh and we need really big types of unpractical armor to make us look badass.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2016-08-27 22:48:45 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:

Oh and we need really big types of unpractical armor to make us look badass.

like 4x1600mm = 6.4 metres of steel?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2016-08-28 00:26:01 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
You looked up baltec1's KB. thats hardly a good slice of data. The miniscule number of t1 ships i found all have players still playing. You have picked a very bad example, and no matter how you "extrapolate it" to make yourself seem smart it is not indicitive or or even relatable to your segway. These deaths are occurring in 0.0 space, most ships are t2 and in large corporations, or are pos mods(my sympathies for his time).

Baltec1 isn't interested in shooting newbies, they're boring. Boredom is what causes players to quit, heres anecdotal stuff(much like your facts and in depth research):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/38szfk/why_do_people_quit_eve_in_your_experience/

And then there is the truely autisic(Certainly has my respect for that) Greedy Goblin

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.ca/2015/03/gank-for-better-player-retention.html

and because everyone loves graphs:

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.ca/2014/06/the-graph-that-didnt-shrink.html

Now go play pretend victim like you play pretend researcher and pretend to quit. again.

Stop being bad. I looked up his highsec ganking you pleb. Given it was with a ton of other high sec gankers that equates to A ****-Ton of data. Instead of being a useless pleb spewing BS perhaps do.something thatll give you a bit of legitimacy and provide data that disproves my data.

But you cant do that can you because youre lazy, not too bright it seems and an expert only in ad hominem :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2016-08-28 02:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Stop being bad. I looked up his highsec ganking you pleb. Given it was with a ton of other high sec gankers that equates to A ****-Ton of data. Instead of being a useless pleb spewing BS perhaps do.something thatll give you a bit of legitimacy and provide data that disproves my data.

But you cant do that can you because youre lazy, not too bright it seems and an expert only in ad hominem :)


I see that you would NEVER stoop to such levels, or even start doing so to people presenting actual data and that is completely not your habit in ANY other posts you make, and I'm sure you will provide all relevant data to prove your assertions.

When someone calls you out on your contradictory opinion, or points out the massive holes in your arguments you have NEVER insult their intellegence or social standing. Not you, highground only, and only hard facts displayed. /s

Prove your exhaustive research, include shiny graphs for all the "work" you've put in. Make sure you only include only ganks involving Baltec1 otherwise you may taint your fantasy, because your obsession about his gank killmail supremecy shows that he can be the only possible gank leader in eve, despite many other groups not including him that you created a group to fight against.

Fight the good fight, rage against the machine, you sir are a hero.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2016-08-28 06:26:12 UTC
But The Date really is quite obvious: under 15 day old toons won't get ganked because (a) nobody likes to risk a ban for griefing over that, and (b) they don't fly anything worth ganking.

Bout time you settled the dispute ladies, but I did look up ZKill myself and found the data shown by Ziona to be correct.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#72 - 2016-08-28 07:45:21 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Stop being bad. I looked up his highsec ganking you pleb. Given it was with a ton of other high sec gankers that equates to A ****-Ton of data.


17 dead freighters vs 80,000 accounts and all responses to the question "why are you leaving us" that is asked when you cancel your account.

Please, do keep going on about your "shitload of data".
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2016-08-28 22:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:

Oh and we need really big types of unpractical armor to make us look badass.

like 4x1600mm = 6.4 metres of steel?


I as talking a bit more about the cosmetic side of eve, and on the topic of settling differences:

Ziona has admitted that Baltec1 was with a group according to her vapor-data. 1 vs many is a challenge to overcome, and should have some consideration about the organization involved in such an action. The idea that avoidance of death and loss of cargo/ship from/by one person being antagonized many by organized people is not an argument, it is an expectation of entitlement to perfect safety, which you have previously stated is one of her desires.

pleb. Really, thats the best that she can do? Do she have it macro'd for local chat usage?

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2016-08-29 07:17:52 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:

Oh and we need really big types of unpractical armor to make us look badass.

like 4x1600mm = 6.4 metres of steel?


I as talking a bit more about the cosmetic side of eve, and on the topic of settling differences:

Ziona has admitted that Baltec1 was with a group according to her vapor-data. 1 vs many is a challenge to overcome, and should have some consideration about the organization involved in such an action. The idea that avoidance of death and loss of cargo/ship from/by one person being antagonized many by organized people is not an argument, it is an expectation of entitlement to perfect safety, which you have previously stated is one of her desires.

pleb. Really, thats the best that she can do? Do she have it macro'd for local chat usage?


For some reason my KB has become an obsession for Infinity which is a shame because due to my current interest in logi its not getting much use.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#75 - 2016-08-29 08:51:00 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:

Oh and we need really big types of unpractical armor to make us look badass.

like 4x1600mm = 6.4 metres of steel?



think Spikes, exaggerated protrusions, stuff more like it.

On my most recent break a fair amount of time spent in Diablo 3. Each class gets several sets that are very different in appearance. Huge crazy looking armor, even for melee (monk) and ranged dps demon hunter). Which to me in my mind would be more sleek and smaller. Not my cup of tea tbh....I used invisibility dyes and transmogrifications to get a more normal appearance. I like clean simple looks.


Armor plates adding a few mm's if thickness on screen a bit mild for the tastes some games attract. Same with the SKINS. They are nice but....compared to other games even the flashing lights and police scheme to ones say kronos still plain as hell all in all. It still looks like kronos. If eve went other routes to appeal to the players...by the time you got done pimping your ride....it look nothing like the original ship.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2016-08-29 10:18:55 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:

Oh and we need really big types of unpractical armor to make us look badass.

like 4x1600mm = 6.4 metres of steel?


I as talking a bit more about the cosmetic side of eve, and on the topic of settling differences:

Ziona has admitted that Baltec1 was with a group according to her vapor-data. 1 vs many is a challenge to overcome, and should have some consideration about the organization involved in such an action. The idea that avoidance of death and loss of cargo/ship from/by one person being antagonized many by organized people is not an argument, it is an expectation of entitlement to perfect safety, which you have previously stated is one of her desires.

pleb. Really, thats the best that she can do? Do she have it macro'd for local chat usage?

Can't keep up so move the goal posts. No one was talking group vs one ship. The argument you lost was about the age of players being ganked.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2016-08-29 16:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Carebears are what pay for EvE. Killing them is counter-productive because a killed carebear is likely to leave and a carebear not paying for a sub is less money for EvE.

I spent a good 7 years in highsec ganking carebears using wardecs. Wars are a legitimate and productive way of killing carebears. There is no need to sit at a gate in the safety of concords protection in a disposable ship to kill a carebear. All one needs to do is declare war on 3 alliances (relatively cheap) to have around 15,000 to 30,000 targets available in high sec. Why don't suicide gankers do this, because their concord safety is removed. Thus they are the greatest carebears, they risk nothing, lose almost nothing and have no fear of being engaged first.

If you can't see that you're unfortunately one of the problems with EvE.


Original argument you made in its simplest form.

Age did not appear as a factor, you made it one later After Baltec1 made the point against you.

You failed to produce and link data. Data such as the number of people ganked and the co-related gankees leaving due to loss of ships. As you should be able to see, I have not lost the argument, and if goalposts appear to have been moved, it is because you are running from them. Like a victim.

Just because people don't play the game YOU want them to play does not mean they're are leaving for the reasons you believe.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2016-08-29 17:15:02 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Carebears are what pay for EvE. Killing them is counter-productive because a killed carebear is likely to leave and a carebear not paying for a sub is less money for EvE.

I spent a good 7 years in highsec ganking carebears using wardecs. Wars are a legitimate and productive way of killing carebears. There is no need to sit at a gate in the safety of concords protection in a disposable ship to kill a carebear. All one needs to do is declare war on 3 alliances (relatively cheap) to have around 15,000 to 30,000 targets available in high sec. Why don't suicide gankers do this, because their concord safety is removed. Thus they are the greatest carebears, they risk nothing, lose almost nothing and have no fear of being engaged first.

If you can't see that you're unfortunately one of the problems with EvE. Bad press for a game is very bad for a game. You can't pretend its somehow good. MMO's subsist or prosper based on their reviews and reputation.


Original argument you made in its simplest form.

Age did not appear as a factor, you made it one later After Baltec1 made the point against you.

You failed to produce and link data. Data such as the number of people ganked and the co-related gankees leaving due to loss of ships. As you should be able to see, I have not lost the argument, and if goalposts appear to have been moved, it is because you are running from them. Like a victim.

Just because people don't play the game YOU want them to play does not mean they're are leaving for the reasons you believe.

Theres your POV then theres reality. Age was always a factor since the entire reason I looked up and posted my data was over a disagreement regarding Baltec1s comment on CCPs survey of people 15 days or less and their reasons for leaving.

Learn to read.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2016-08-29 17:15:20 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Carebears are what pay for EvE. Killing them is counter-productive because a killed carebear is likely to leave and a carebear not paying for a sub is less money for EvE.

I spent a good 7 years in highsec ganking carebears using wardecs. Wars are a legitimate and productive way of killing carebears. There is no need to sit at a gate in the safety of concords protection in a disposable ship to kill a carebear. All one needs to do is declare war on 3 alliances (relatively cheap) to have around 15,000 to 30,000 targets available in high sec. Why don't suicide gankers do this, because their concord safety is removed. Thus they are the greatest carebears, they risk nothing, lose almost nothing and have no fear of being engaged first.

If you can't see that you're unfortunately one of the problems with EvE. Bad press for a game is very bad for a game. You can't pretend its somehow good. MMO's subsist or prosper based on their reviews and reputation.


Original argument you made in its simplest form.

Age did not appear as a factor, you made it one later After Baltec1 made the point against you.

You failed to produce and link data. Data such as the number of people ganked and the co-related gankees leaving due to loss of ships. As you should be able to see, I have not lost the argument, and if goalposts appear to have been moved, it is because you are running from them. Like a victim.

Just because people don't play the game YOU want them to play does not mean they're are leaving for the reasons you believe.


I also pointed out that less than 1% of those who quit cite ship loss so we have two very very large studies that show ganking does not have a negative impact on numbers. CCP have also said that people who do pvp stay longer than those who don't, which goes against the changes they have been making over the last few years.

All that vs me helping to kill 17 freighters in highsec. This is kind of like trying to argue smoking is perfectly safe and good for your health.