Assembly Hall

If you were the ruling class, you would not dodge the every wardec that your bumping alts' corps suffer from like carebears do that you loath. In a way, gankers and in particular CODE gankers are worse than carebears because you preach water (don't dodge wardecs, fight, stand your ground, don't crap talk in local, and so on) and drink wine (you do not stay in your corps and fight back against wars, your cuck-flood in local speaks for its own). If CODE was participating in this roundtable, it can't have been all that productive and insightful.


Suspect flags are also irrelevant in high sec. No one engages a target that can shoot back and even targets that can't shoot back are regularly ignored. I have seen so many pirates and suspect people floating around space (outside Jita) that no one engages at all. However, if a freighter goes suspect, you can count on that people flock to whore on it.
Furthermore and in light of the above, it is not that easy to find out who the bumper is and who not. A suspect Machariel (that no one cares about) can just bump a freighter into an immobile Catalyst/Talos and really quickly we have the freighter suspect flagged as bumper. The Machariel can just warp off once the freighter is suspect since no one cares.

Whatever CCP could do, matters would only get worse especially if Crime Watch got involved. We have already seen how desperate people are to overcome the limitations of any restriction put in place and the introduction of Crime Watch to the bumping system would only make matters worse for freighters. This entire feature should be left alone because right now it works: you can easily explain what gankers can do to get you and what you can do to not get caught (which is already stacked in a 3:1 ratio of possibilities against freighters),no arcane and overly easily exploitable mechanics to make ganking overly easy are in place. It requires effort from both sides to do it and to prevent it.
The same goes for longer CONCORD response times. You can give freighters a carrier's worth of defenses, they are still just freighters. And player-driven anti-ganking business is neither prevalent enough nor rewarding enough to make it more prevalent. Except for (no) appreciation from haulers, you don't get anything from it; and appreciation alone does not pay bills. And again: if you introduced a reward system for anti-ganking, it would be easily exploitable and only make matters worse. Right now, anti-gankers can have a fleet ready to kill the gankers (the long response time in 0.5/.6 systems allows for that) once they go criminal and remote repair a freighter. Neither is working properly to save a significant number of freighters because not enough people are interested in it -- and never will get interested in it because it is a boring and tedious activity with nearly no action and a lot of waiting.

Tank doesn't mean a thing, neither for haulers nor gankers. Gankers are risk-averse and would stop bumping altogether, or only bump once or twice, but not the third time to prevent the flag. They can just warp around on grid or to a close-by off-grid spot to get rid of the counter and come back to continue bumping. Instead of making it more interesting for defenders, it would just remove bumping altogether. Not that bumping was necessary in the first place. In the past, people just scanned freighters, followed them and engaged them when they wanted to warp off (slow aligntime is slow) or were approaching the gate, completely without bumping. This focus on alts for ganking, however, has seemed to make bumping necessary so that non-ISB'd alts can do that job of actual people.

Well good luck with this, Until it's sorted its quite simply good bye new players!

I tried a considered and what I though interesting and impartial post on a possible solution but it got nowhere.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6609856#post6609856

As long as this idea of 'only one way to play EVE persists', and gets promoted through these posts, the whole concept is worth naught.

CCP need to make a stand at some point, they advertise it as a sandbox, but only promote and endorse one side or aspect of it and fail a lot of the current and potentially new community by doing so.

Please keep us updated on how it goes though, great to see someone on the CSM brave enough to take it on.

The skiff has today basically the stats of an heavy attack cruiser which can still mine at the same time. And yet miners are still complaining. If they get yet another buff they will probably be used as combat ships...

Yes, we need to get rid of those who want to impose their playstyles on others.

You.


The first golden rule of EVE ...
... You consent to PvP when you click "undock".


You lost.

Go.
Away.

Nah, I'm not going anywhere, but thanks.
Perhaps if you could read you would have noticed I have never said ganking should be removed, nor would I wish to impose anything on anyone;
...but this is not the place for a argument dude. You clearly win with your highly positive attitude and intellectual prowess.

If we can get and keep new players, CCP will have more revenue, thus allowing faster and better content. Do you really want to wait another handful of years before we get things like player built stargates and other overdue or potential features? I would like to speed this up a bit if possible and that is my sole intention.

There is no way for a confused and bamboozled new player in a Venture or retriever to counter a gank! That's all I'm trying to address here, and kudos to Jin'taan for attempting to get info from 'all' sides and relay it back to CCP.

So lets help him, not hinder.

i like this.

I'm all for retaining new players.
To me the solution is easy and obvious as long as enough people work together.
I still have a thread to make, to finish the series.

My thoughts are more about social development and effects of things CCP throws at us.

They've posted the eight golden rules recently for this for a good reason!

And I wholeheartedly agree with this. The golden rule should provide a good foundation for any discussions.

Max

LOL I am assuming you are referring to me. Silliness and lack of social graces certainly defines me


Max

(ssshhh... look the other way)

And so what? He may be uninformed. But usually it's easy enough with a good attitude to get into contact with the ganker and ask him wtf happened and how he did it. Many gankers are helpful players and will tell a new player what to look out for and how to prepare.

There may be a little roleplay involved now and then, but omg, this is an mmorpg after all.


That's what many gankers are actually willing to do. And you know what? Quite a few of them are industrialists too. All the new player has to do is get a hold of himself and get in touch with the folks who peeled him out of his trit can.

We don't need new game mechanics so much besides maybe what Zappity stated earlier. What we do need though, is much improved information for new players about the nature of the game. CCP has been constantly failing at this since I started playing. Just look at what they did(n't do) with Evelopedia.