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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Kimberly Sun
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6461 - 2016-08-24 06:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimberly Sun
Seriously, this issue has existed for years.

This thread is more than a year old and nothing has changed.

I log in to find the entire region being camped by a dude with 40+ alts cloaked.

There are times when i just want to PVE, watch some spaceships blow up (NPCs) and enjoy the graphics.

I want to play a game to have fun but I find it getting harder to enjoy this game anymore.

I am getting tired of this game and i will soon leave if nothing is changing in the near future
as i find myself logging off more to play others games when such things happen.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6462 - 2016-08-24 18:22:59 UTC
Cougaro wrote:


1: There's no intel gathering if you're AFK
2: It disrupts others gameplay.
3: It's harassment of those who have spent a lot of time, effort and isk to make that system their "home".
4: There's no risk what-so-ever to the AFK'er


1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. No.
4. Yes and no. Yes there is risk when getting to the system you want to camp. Once you are there and safed and cloaked there is virtually no risk.
5. Once you are cloaked and safed to maintain that level of risk you pose no risk to anyone else in system.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6463 - 2016-08-24 18:26:58 UTC
vipeer wrote:


TLDR; Add a new Probe Launcher, which makes it possible to scan down cloaky sub-capital ships. Possibly make it easier to probe a cloaked ship with a fitted Cyno than one without (intel/scout).
Requires both an active cloaker and active hunter.


Not balanced. People PVEing in a system have a distinct advantage from active hunters thanks to local. If you are going to nerf cloaks, then nerf local too.

Further, local violates the basic tenant of the game, IMO. You should do stuff yourself to obtain your goals--i.e. if you want an intel network it should be something players set up, not something CCP hands out on a platter.

These new probes should generally be designed so that an active player can avoid being probed as well. Active cloaking is not bad, AFK cloaking is the issue (mainly it is just boring for everyone).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

vipeer
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#6464 - 2016-08-24 18:34:43 UTC  |  Edited by: vipeer
Teckos Pech wrote:

These new probes should generally be designed so that an active player can avoid being probed as well. Active cloaking is not bad, AFK cloaking is the issue (mainly it is just boring for everyone).


Mm yes that's why I suggested that it should (maybe, I'm not sure myself) only be possible to probe someone with a Cyno fitted. Because a normal scout, or someone doing exploration or someone being in a WH would not need a Cyno so they would be safe.
Lore wise, a Cyno emits tracable radioation which makes it possible to detect but needs a long sample time (maybe 2 or 5 min probe time to pinpoint).

A active player can just warp every X minute and won't have an issue. He can even have time to take a bio-break if needed.
I want to get rid of the people who logon after DT and stays cloaked in the same system(s) for days or weeks ruining the fun for everyone else. And yes, I've done the same to both lower ADM and morale, it's a horrible mechanic.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6465 - 2016-08-24 19:02:16 UTC
Kimberly Sun wrote:
Seriously, this issue has existed for years.

This thread is more than a year old and nothing has changed.

I log in to find the entire region being camped by a dude with 40+ alts cloaked.

There are times when i just want to PVE, watch some spaceships blow up (NPCs) and enjoy the graphics.

I want to play a game to have fun but I find it getting harder to enjoy this game anymore.

I am getting tired of this game and i will soon leave if nothing is changing in the near future
as i find myself logging off more to play others games when such things happen.


The door is that way ---->

Look, if you want to carve out a slice of NS for yourself...your will need friends. You will need fleets and the effort of multiple people, both to take it and to hold it. The latter applies to AFK cloak camping as much as a fleet rolling in and shooting your stuff.

If you insist that you should always be able to PVE solo with virtually no effort, well then this is not the game for you. You are not assured of being able to log in and do a given activity solo whenever you want. That is not the premise of this game.

And I find these claims of a single guy with 40 alts camping an entire region to be laughable.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6466 - 2016-08-24 19:07:25 UTC
vipeer wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

These new probes should generally be designed so that an active player can avoid being probed as well. Active cloaking is not bad, AFK cloaking is the issue (mainly it is just boring for everyone).


Mm yes that's why I suggested that it should (maybe, I'm not sure myself) only be possible to probe someone with a Cyno fitted. Because a normal scout, or someone doing exploration or someone being in a WH would not need a Cyno so they would be safe.
Lore wise, a Cyno emits tracable radioation which makes it possible to detect but needs a long sample time (maybe 2 or 5 min probe time to pinpoint).

A active player can just warp every X minute and won't have an issue. He can even have time to take a bio-break if needed.
I want to get rid of the people who logon after DT and stays cloaked in the same system(s) for days or weeks ruining the fun for everyone else. And yes, I've done the same to both lower ADM and morale, it's a horrible mechanic.


I disagree, a cyno is not the problem here. And also think about what would happen in a behavioral sense. If I wanted to AFK cloak somebody and you made it so that I could be probed with a cyno, but not probed without a cyno, I'd either offline or unfit the cyno. I might even toss it in the cargo hold with a mobile depot (assuming I could fit one in there).

If this new probe allowed you to find a ship after say 10 minutes and local was nerfed (say delayed 20 seconds--both ways, you don't see some one enter for 20 seconds and upon entering you don't see anyone for 20 seconds) it would be something to consider. AFK cloaking would be gone and active hunting in a cloaked ship would be possible.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Nofearion
Destructive Brothers
Fraternity.
#6467 - 2016-08-27 12:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nofearion
There are many post in this thread and several others about how to balance this issue.

One has to do with changing local, - very unpopular however to a varying degree is necessary to keep balance.

Create a new set of intel tools, skill based, sov based, module based - this is a time consuming effort and CCP may not have the motivation for it until they fix a lot of other stuff.

AFK is AFK - Yes to the trolls who say an AFK player never hurt anyone however the perceived threat was purported at one time as a way for the little guy to have a way to stick it to the "man" in this case bigger alliances.
With the recent changes is Sov mechanics this is no longer useful and nor is it used for large scale denial of space.
Mainly a rather small group of pilots who normally get paid isk or have a grievance setup harassment operations involving AFK cloaking.

To be honest most of your blops hunters do not stick in one system for more than a few days- they get their kills and leave.

Facts - AFK play should not affect active play by other players - POKE your CSM favorites and make it an issue!
AFK play in this regard is to say those who are cloaked in system from server uptime to server down time for weeks on end. They are rarely there and only check in to see if you are paying attention. They are only successful under "perceived threat" and only effective at that if they can maintain real threat close enough to cyno in.
1. under new sov mechs AFK cloaking is no longer an effective counter measure.
2. Balance must be maintained - it will be harder for CCP to find a balanced outcome of changes than to change afk cloaking in the first place.
3. Small changes that are skill and module based "nerfs to cloaking" can be made as to be relatively in effective to active play. however for those who are AFK would provide to be deadly.
4. with upcoming changes to fleet boosting, current changes to capitals, and citadels I think we can finally make this happen.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6468 - 2016-08-27 18:43:18 UTC
Nofearion wrote:


Facts - AFK play should not affect active play by other players - POKE your CSM favorites and make it an issue!
AFK play in this regard is to say those who are cloaked in system from server uptime to server down time for weeks on end. They are rarely there and only check in to see if you are paying attention. They are only successful under "perceived threat" and only effective at that if they can maintain real threat close enough to cyno in.


Then why does this have to be a CSM issue? If it is perceived threat, the it sounds like the problem lies with the person who is perceiving the threat.

Quote:
2. Balance must be maintained - it will be harder for CCP to find a balanced outcome of changes than to change afk cloaking in the first place.


Sure removing AFK cloaking might be simple, but I would argue it is not balanced. Balance is not achieved by removing AFK cloaking and nerfing ATK cloaking. That is the antithesis of balance. And this is not a fact, but your opinion.

Quote:
3. Small changes that are skill and module based "nerfs to cloaking" can be made as to be relatively in effective to active play. however for those who are AFK would provide to be deadly.


Again, opinion not fact here. And again nerfing a module used by ATK players to get at AFK players is not balanced. I use cloaks almost every day on an alt to move high value/small volume stuff around LS and HS. I should not have my game nerfed to satisfy some Bads™.

Quote:

4. with upcoming changes to fleet boosting, current changes to capitals, and citadels I think we can finally make this happen.


Again, not fact, but opinion.

Here is a solution.

A new probe and launcher is introduced. But it takes 2 hours for it to find the cloaked ship. And it can only be fit on....mmmm...a marauder. And once the probes are launched and are scanning the ship is locked in place for the entire 2 hours.

This will have zero impact on an ATK player, and the whiney little brats will actually have to put something on the chopping block instead of having every other cloak user put something on the block.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6469 - 2016-08-28 07:05:41 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here is a solution.

A new probe and launcher is introduced. But it takes 2 hours for it to find the cloaked ship. And it can only be fit on....mmmm...a marauder. And once the probes are launched and are scanning the ship is locked in place for the entire 2 hours.

This will have zero impact on an ATK player, and the whiney little brats will actually have to put something on the chopping block instead of having every other cloak user put something on the block.


RollLol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6470 - 2016-08-28 08:41:22 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here is a solution.

A new probe and launcher is introduced. But it takes 2 hours for it to find the cloaked ship. And it can only be fit on....mmmm...a marauder. And once the probes are launched and are scanning the ship is locked in place for the entire 2 hours.

This will have zero impact on an ATK player, and the whiney little brats will actually have to put something on the chopping block instead of having every other cloak user put something on the block.


RollLol


And the Chief Bad™ makes his appearance.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6471 - 2016-08-28 08:59:18 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here is a solution.

A new probe and launcher is introduced. But it takes 2 hours for it to find the cloaked ship. And it can only be fit on....mmmm...a marauder. And once the probes are launched and are scanning the ship is locked in place for the entire 2 hours.

This will have zero impact on an ATK player, and the whiney little brats will actually have to put something on the chopping block instead of having every other cloak user put something on the block.


RollLol


And the Chief Bad™ makes his appearance.


Well excuse me, but how can you actually warp to the cloaky when you are locked in place? RollShocked

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6472 - 2016-08-28 20:31:01 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here is a solution.

A new probe and launcher is introduced. But it takes 2 hours for it to find the cloaked ship. And it can only be fit on....mmmm...a marauder. And once the probes are launched and are scanning the ship is locked in place for the entire 2 hours.

This will have zero impact on an ATK player, and the whiney little brats will actually have to put something on the chopping block instead of having every other cloak user put something on the block.


RollLol


And the Chief Bad™ makes his appearance.


Well excuse me, but how can you actually warp to the cloaky when you are locked in place? RollShocked


Start scanning...which takes 2 hours. You are also immobilized while the probes are scanning. Probes are done scanning you are no longer immobilized so you warp to the cloaky, decloak him and shoot him.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6473 - 2016-08-28 22:53:52 UTC
Kimberly Sun wrote:
Seriously, this issue has existed for years.

This thread is more than a year old and nothing has changed.


If you read the OP, this thread was not meant to change anything.


Kimberly Sun wrote:

I log in to find the entire region being camped by a dude with 40+ alts cloaked.

There are times when i just want to PVE, watch some spaceships blow up (NPCs) and enjoy the graphics.

I want to play a game to have fun but I find it getting harder to enjoy this game anymore.

I am getting tired of this game and i will soon leave if nothing is changing in the near future
as i find myself logging off more to play others games when such things happen.


Null sec is PvP centric area. EVE is a PvP centric game. You are never allowed to 'just PvE'.

You should live in hi-sec, or just quit already.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6474 - 2016-08-29 05:32:04 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here is a solution.

A new probe and launcher is introduced. But it takes 2 hours for it to find the cloaked ship. And it can only be fit on....mmmm...a marauder. And once the probes are launched and are scanning the ship is locked in place for the entire 2 hours.

This will have zero impact on an ATK player, and the whiney little brats will actually have to put something on the chopping block instead of having every other cloak user put something on the block.


RollLol


And the Chief Bad™ makes his appearance.


Well excuse me, but how can you actually warp to the cloaky when you are locked in place? RollShocked


Start scanning...which takes 2 hours. You are also immobilized while the probes are scanning. Probes are done scanning you are no longer immobilized so you warp to the cloaky, decloak him and shoot him.


Seems like a very expensive potential trade, a Marauder for a frigate for example, I know you lot have your risk and reward concept all skew wiff but that is still highly amusing. Also what truly engaging game play locked into the same location for 2 hours, thats a full session of play for many people.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6475 - 2016-08-29 05:33:59 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Kimberly Sun wrote:
Seriously, this issue has existed for years.

This thread is more than a year old and nothing has changed.


If you read the OP, this thread was not meant to change anything.


Kimberly Sun wrote:

I log in to find the entire region being camped by a dude with 40+ alts cloaked.

There are times when i just want to PVE, watch some spaceships blow up (NPCs) and enjoy the graphics.

I want to play a game to have fun but I find it getting harder to enjoy this game anymore.

I am getting tired of this game and i will soon leave if nothing is changing in the near future
as i find myself logging off more to play others games when such things happen.


Null sec is PvP centric area. EVE is a PvP centric game. You are never allowed to 'just PvE'.

You should live in hi-sec, or just quit already.


So when you just have low risk PvP players to shoot and find they are all cloaky camping each other while playing other games, you can enjoy you PvP centric game, or not as the case will be.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6476 - 2016-08-29 13:20:48 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


So when you just have low risk PvP players to shoot and find they are all cloaky camping each other while playing other games, you can enjoy you PvP centric game, or not as the case will be.


Did your brain just fart?

Do you need reminding how much stuff still happens in the game despite afk cloaky being a tactic for over a decade? The only thing afk cloaking stops is whinetards from accessing high level content in complete safety. Even then 'afktars' are a thing and some players just rat in gangs whilst waving mid digits to afk cloakers in local. Roll

Grow a backbone or go back to hi-sec where there are cushions for players who play alone and don't like pvp.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6477 - 2016-08-29 15:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


So when you just have low risk PvP players to shoot and find they are all cloaky camping each other while playing other games, you can enjoy you PvP centric game, or not as the case will be.


Did your brain just fart?

Do you need reminding how much stuff still happens in the game despite afk cloaky being a tactic for over a decade? The only thing afk cloaking stops is whinetards from accessing high level content in complete safety. Even then 'afktars' are a thing and some players just rat in gangs whilst waving mid digits to afk cloakers in local. Roll

Grow a backbone or go back to hi-sec where there are cushions for players who play alone and don't like pvp.


Roll

Methinks you are another lazy AFK camper toe rag.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6478 - 2016-08-29 21:30:54 UTC
Never done it. I just rat in null sometimes. But i can see the stupidity in posts from people who just want to be left alone in a pvp sandbox. And when you suggest that the only pvp in this game involves afk cloaking, its obvious to everyone you're talking out your arse.

Just making such a farcical post begs belief. Thats why I'd hope you just brain farted that **** out.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6479 - 2016-08-30 07:01:39 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Never done it. I just rat in null sometimes. But i can see the stupidity in posts from people who just want to be left alone in a pvp sandbox. And when you suggest that the only pvp in this game involves afk cloaking, its obvious to everyone you're talking out your arse.

Just making such a farcical post begs belief. Thats why I'd hope you just brain farted that **** out.


So you rat sometimes in 0.0 and don't live there and you call me stupid? Nothing to be with being left alone, my issue is solely with the AFK part, I like many others have no issue when they are ATK.

Throwing one liner insults based around your feelings is just lame, the only one doing a brain fart is you, well add Teckos to that too. Big smile

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6480 - 2016-08-30 14:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Dracvlad wrote:


So you rat sometimes in 0.0 and don't live there and you call me stupid? Nothing to be with being left alone, my issue is solely with the AFK part, I like many others have no issue when they are ATK.


No i actually do have a char living in null again. But its more for the PvP side of things. Even if i didn't have a char in null, how would that make me stupid exactly?

You seem to have become confused. I was talking to someone else before you tried to say that if we dont remove afk cloaking, then the only PvP left in the game will be afk cloaking...

Dracvlad wrote:

Throwing one liner insults based around your feelings is just lame, the only one doing a brain fart is you, well add Teckos to that too. Big smile


I didnt insult you, but the post you made and the one made by Kimberly Sun were stupid. We all should know this thread wasnt meant to indicate coming changes to the game. We all know we are not entitled to rat, especially in null, without the risk of bad guys coming a long, and we all know EVE's PvP in its entirety does not revolve around afk cloaking.

As for throwing insults being 'lame'.


Dracvlad wrote:

Methinks you are another lazy AFK camper toe rag.


come on....

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs