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What single change would encourage you to fly solo in lowsec?
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#81 - 2016-08-26 12:01:22 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
it's not a matter of slow reflex.
you'll be able to act in less than a second by practising a lot. it's a matter of experience.

Most studies agree that you *can* improve your reflexes with repetition and practice - they are still reflexes.

The thing with EVE is that so many elements of the game happen so slowly/automatically... Most people don't *need* fast reflexes for what they are doing, so they don't train them, so they atrophy...

Also of course if you are in chat channels/etc people will constantly be doing things to distract you - further slowing your reflexes.

I'm not saying people can't train and build up their reflexes - but it is rare that people *come in* to the game with their reflexes already fast. And as I say there is very little incentive for most of them to train it.
(particularly if they just die over and over and over and over and over again with no victories to celebrate as they start, in their most vulnerable state)

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2016-08-26 12:02:42 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
it's not a matter of slow reflex.
you'll be able to act in less than a second by practising a lot. it's a matter of experience.

Uhm... which means faster reflexes from training....

Don't write before you start to think. :P


training in something doesn't mean fast reflex.
it means you'll do a lot of fast mechanical moviments without thinking becouse they are subconscionsly already in your memory.
it's different!

i always think before write!
oh wait.... let's say often Cool
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#83 - 2016-08-26 12:13:34 UTC
I don't get these threads where people have a, let's face it, measly idea and try to tie it to either encouraging new players or retaining them.
I've lived solo in lowsec on-and-off since i finished the tutorials. I took the time to find out where was busy and where was quiet. Getting to know the locals and what they were about. It's worth it but requires more of you.
Solo pvp is stupid and not a consideration.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2016-08-26 12:16:19 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Solo pvp is stupid and not a consideration.


ahahhahaha
Shots Fired LolLolLol

p.s. i think the same thing as you Cool
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#85 - 2016-08-26 12:19:03 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
You want to move PvPers out of high sec into low sec? Simple: Remove PvP from high sec. Remove ganking, remove war decs, except for corps that have in-space assets.

Then you'd have to remove all missioning, mining, incursions and all POSs too.

POS haven't been in highsec all that long, so that would kind of upset people if that had to happen.

Nah. PvPers would rather poke their eyes out than mine. It can stay. Same with all other PvE content. And POSes are in-space assets. With these changes, any corp with one will still be a war dec target.

The idea is to make it so anyone who wants their PvP fix has to leave high sec to get it.
On the other side, trying to force those who do not like PvP into low sec will just cause them to leave the game, so that's totally useless.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2016-08-26 12:19:44 UTC
Reflexes and server ticks go hand in hand, Situational awareness and decision making speed are more important. And to be able to make fast a decision requires solid game knowledge (experience with most ship types, weapons and diferent type of fits, combat styles, sec space mechanics etc.).

Even if you inject all the skills required to fly all ships you'll still need actual combat flight experience. Theory does not replace trial and error and that's where experience comes from.

That translates into lots of hours at the keyboard dedicated solely to combat (and an equal amount if not more dedicated to finding a combat situation that permits a complex learning process (being blobed or ganked is a very limited experince that will only train your evasive skills). Not sure how many players have the time, patience or disposition for that.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2016-08-26 12:23:38 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Reflexes and server ticks go hand in hand, Situational awareness and decision making speed are more important. And to be able to make fast a decision requires solid game knowledge (experience with most ship types, weapons and diferent type of fits, combat styles, sec space mechanics etc.).

Even if you inject all the skills required to fly all ships you'll still need actual combat flight experience. Theory does not replace trial and error and that's where experience comes from.

That translates into lots of hours at the keyboard dedicated solely to combat (and an equal amount if not more dedicated to finding a combat situation that permits a complex learning process (being blobed or ganked is a very limited experince that will only train your evasive skills). Not sure how many players have the time, patience or disposition for that.


yea dude, you took the exact words out of my mouth, well done Blink
Dirty Forum Alt and Solecist Project are clearly noobs Cool

Shots Fired Big smile
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#88 - 2016-08-26 12:29:17 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
You want to move PvPers out of high sec into low sec? Simple: Remove PvP from high sec. Remove ganking, remove war decs, except for corps that have in-space assets.

Then you'd have to remove all missioning, mining, incursions and all POSs too.

POS haven't been in highsec all that long, so that would kind of upset people if that had to happen.

Nah. PvPers would rather poke their eyes out than mine. It can stay. Same with all other PvE content. And POSes are in-space assets. With these changes, any corp with one will still be a war dec target.

The idea is to make it so anyone who wants their PvP fix has to leave high sec to get it.
On the other side, trying to force those who do not like PvP into low sec will just cause them to leave the game, so that's totally useless.

Remove the risk, remove any reward too.

The economy wouldn't be balanced with a free ISK highsec.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#89 - 2016-08-26 12:32:45 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
Reflexes and server ticks go hand in hand, Situational awareness and decision making speed are more important. And to be able to make fast a decision requires solid game knowledge (experience with most ship types, weapons and diferent type of fits, combat styles, sec space mechanics etc.).

Even if you inject all the skills required to fly all ships you'll still need actual combat flight experience. Theory does not replace trial and error and that's where experience comes from.

That translates into lots of hours at the keyboard dedicated solely to combat (and an equal amount if not more dedicated to finding a combat situation that permits a complex learning process (being blobed or ganked is a very limited experince that will only train your evasive skills). Not sure how many players have the time, patience or disposition for that.


yea dude, you took the exact words out of my mouth, well done Blink
Dirty Forum Alt and Solecist Project are clearly noobs Cool

Shots Fired Big smile

I would argue that mental reflexes are still reflexes - and some people *do* think faster than others. You can improve your mental reflexes (as all others) with practice/training - but at the end of the day some people will still be better at it than others.


And in case anybody missed it - I have been one of the few arguing *against* solo PvP as the career path for new players here P

I think the decision to fly with others or solo should come *after* you've been with a group and gotten a real taste for PvP - and most groups will let you dabble in it without leaving, so you can easily do *both* - it isn't a "one or the other" choice.

Gimme Sake wrote:
That translates into lots of hours at the keyboard dedicated solely to combat (and an equal amount if not more dedicated to finding a combat situation that permits a complex learning process (being blobed or ganked is a very limited experince that will only train your evasive skills). Not sure how many players have the time, patience or disposition for that.

That right there pretty much sums it up.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2016-08-26 12:42:52 UTC
All of Eve is just too blobby these days(relative to the engagement size). People who are willing to take a good fight just for the fun of the fight are few and far between. Mostly it's a 'Fight with 100% surety of victory or don't fight' game. Sometimes that attitude is appropriate.... but as a general state of being it's pretty crappy. Low sec isn't anything special, it's afflicted with the same illness.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2016-08-26 12:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
Kenrailae wrote:
All of Eve is just too blobby these days(relative to the engagement size). People who are willing to take a good fight just for the fun of the fight are few and far between. Mostly it's a 'Fight with 100% surety of victory or don't fight' game. Sometimes that attitude is appropriate.... but as a general state of being it's pretty crappy. Low sec isn't anything special, it's afflicted with the same illness.


it's only becouse people go around camping gates, etc all stupid stuff at the end of the day.
let's call it tactical objectives.

imagine if people would go after r64 moons, super cap array, etc.
shiny stuff basically.
those strategic objectives are more relevant. people will fight for them.

take for example the Co2 titans drop on PL/NC even outnumbered. was awesome! (props to Co2, big balls there)
you'll answer with the "blueball tactic" used by goons.
and i'll counter you with: keep chasing them down to delve, put them to a wall (KappaPride) and see if they won't fight.
every human beings left with no choice will take the only way possible: to fight or to die.
Solecist Project
#92 - 2016-08-26 12:50:34 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
All of Eve is just too blobby these days(relative to the engagement size). People who are willing to take a good fight just for the fun of the fight are few and far between. Mostly it's a 'Fight with 100% surety of victory or don't fight' game. Sometimes that attitude is appropriate.... but as a general state of being it's pretty crappy. Low sec isn't anything special, it's afflicted with the same illness.

I'll be logging in tonight, in approximately four or five hours.
Sorry for not being around more.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2016-08-26 12:50:34 UTC
Sure, the type reflex you are talking about come from mental discipline. That's only available after you experienced the situations listed above and have trained yourself to react accordingly. Otherwise knowing where the f1 or f2 is on your keyboard can also be considered some sort of reflex, in a virtual world the term is rather confusing.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Solecist Project
#94 - 2016-08-26 12:55:31 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
it's not a matter of slow reflex.
you'll be able to act in less than a second by practising a lot. it's a matter of experience.

Most studies agree that you *can* improve your reflexes with repetition and practice - they are still reflexes.

The thing with EVE is that so many elements of the game happen so slowly/automatically... Most people don't *need* fast reflexes for what they are doing, so they don't train them, so they atrophy...

Also of course if you are in chat channels/etc people will constantly be doing things to distract you - further slowing your reflexes.

I'm not saying people can't train and build up their reflexes - but it is rare that people *come in* to the game with their reflexes already fast. And as I say there is very little incentive for most of them to train it.
(particularly if they just die over and over and over and over and over again with no victories to celebrate as they start, in their most vulnerable state)

It's funny how that needs studies.

All i needed for that was a tennisball and a wall ...
... shooting it at the wall, always aiming for my face.

And then you try to wait until the last possible moment for evasion.

This really works!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2016-08-26 12:56:03 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
All of Eve is just too blobby these days(relative to the engagement size). People who are willing to take a good fight just for the fun of the fight are few and far between. Mostly it's a 'Fight with 100% surety of victory or don't fight' game. Sometimes that attitude is appropriate.... but as a general state of being it's pretty crappy. Low sec isn't anything special, it's afflicted with the same illness.


it's only becouse people go around camping gates, etc all stupid stuff at the end of the day.
let's call it tactical objectives.

imagine if people would go after r64 moons, super cap array, etc.
shiny stuff basically.
those strategic objectives are more relevant. people will fight for them.

take for example the Co2 titans drop on PL/NC even outnumbered. was awesome! (props to Co2, big balls there)
you'll answer with the "blueball tactic" used by goons.
and i'll counter you with: keep chasing them down to delve, put them to a wall (KappaPride) and see if they won't fight.
every human beings left with no choice will take the only way possible: to fight or to die.



I'm reasonably certain you are not familiar with the content you are discussing.


Camping gates isn't a tactical objective, it's usually a time suck.


People DO go after things like R64's, citadels, arrays. It's one of the few ways that has a reasonable chance to get a response. Even then it's not guaranteed.


CO2 should 100% have chosen to not take that fight. That's one of those areas where it would have been better to let the fight go to another day where your odds were better. Now they've only managed to feed a metric crapload of kills to NC./PL. and get the interest of every PL/NC pilot who was not really paying attention before hand. They effectively handed PL the shotgun to shoot them with.



All of that is measured warfare or just burning time though, in which sometimes the best option is in fact, to not fight.







None of that is just roaming around low sec in a few cruisers or BC's, and coming across a similar gang who runs 5 jumps back home to upship to T3's and guardians with cap support instead of just trading a few cruisers and bc's and everyone having a good fight.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#96 - 2016-08-26 13:04:35 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Sure, the type reflex you are talking about come from mental discipline. That's only available after you experienced the situations listed above and have trained yourself to react accordingly. Otherwise knowing where the f1 or f2 is on your keyboard can also be considered some sort of reflex, in a virtual world the term is rather confusing.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

I'm just pointing out what you are pointing out - and saying it is why new players (as a *general rule*) shouldn't attempt solo PvP - they should seek a *group* to join and PvP with.



Random Related Story Time:

I watched a man last night...
A twitch streamer...
a Noob...
I don't know if he has any potential or not - but I know he is ****ing awful right now...
He jumped into Tama...
He (predictably) died...
He actually warped his pod out....
Despite the fact that it took him a full 3 seconds after he died...
It wasn't a very good camp as camps go...
He flew 5 more systems deep into low-sec before he realized he'd actually died...
He "thought he got his ship out somehow"...
He turned around and flew back...
He flew into a smartbomb...
He woke up in a station...
He *literally* didn't even know what hit him...


This is a fairly typical new-player experience with trying to "Solo PvP" after reading a couple of out-dated guides and receiving no in-game help.

Some people may be stubborn enough to push through and figure it out - most of them will give it up as hopeless after a few tries...because they literally don't even react/take in the situation fast enough to *know how they died* - nor do they know how to find out - so they can't really learn much from it...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2016-08-26 13:09:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
Kenrailae wrote:
I'm reasonably certain you are not familiar with the content you are discussing.
Camping gates isn't a tactical objective, it's usually a time suck.

you clearly can't see the big picture!
gate camp: it's a tactical ops used in many ways, just to name some:
- preventing enemies to stop the entosis link
- keep your members safe while they rat in a dead end system
- gank logistic ops passing through
- and many others ways!

Kenrailae wrote:
People DO go after things like R64's, citadels, arrays. It's one of the few ways that has a reasonable chance to get a response. Even then it's not guaranteed.

indeed they do

Kenrailae wrote:
CO2 should 100% have chosen to not take that fight. That's one of those areas where it would have been better to let the fight go to another day where your odds were better. Now they've only managed to feed a metric crapload of kills to NC./PL. and get the interest of every PL/NC pilot who was not really paying attention before hand. They effectively handed PL the shotgun to shoot them with.


ahahahah are you serious?
they tried to defend their assets. Outnumbered and outgunned. It's obviously an action that someone like you can't understand. and probably would have gone even better if Test, PM and Snuff would have dropped their heavy assets.

PL and NC don't need a shotgun, they have already one! feeding kills don't make any difference!
they'll keep ruling until someone bigger than them will take their role.

Kenrailae wrote:

None of that is just roaming around low sec in a few cruisers or BC's, and coming across a similar gang who runs 5 jumps back home to upship to T3's and guardians with cap support instead of just trading a few cruisers and bc's and everyone having a good fight.


ahahahah good fight ahahhaha
people still looking for good fight in 2k16!
how many years have you played eve? ahahah good fights???
it's to live or to die.

Fair/good fights don't exist in eve nor in the real world!
get real dude, you are so hilarious LolLol
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2016-08-26 13:12:45 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:

ahahahah good fight ahahhaha
people still looking for good fight in 2k16!
how many years have you played eve? ahahah good fights???
it's to live or to die.

Fair/good fights don't exist in eve nor in the real world!
get real dude, you are so hilarious LolLol




Thank you for confirming you're part of the problem.

Go troll elsewhere. Bye!

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Solecist Project
#99 - 2016-08-26 13:13:58 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
...so they can't really learn much from it...

Unless they ask the aggressor, which is easy thanks to the killmail notification...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2016-08-26 13:17:07 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:

ahahahah good fight ahahhaha
people still looking for good fight in 2k16!
how many years have you played eve? ahahah good fights???
it's to live or to die.

Fair/good fights don't exist in eve nor in the real world!
get real dude, you are so hilarious LolLol




Thank you for confirming you're part of the problem.

Go troll elsewhere. Bye!



ShockedXXXX

the only problem that i can see here it's your "fair world/game" vision.
utopia won't be allowed to exist, ever Cool

no trollerino Blink