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8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#61 - 2016-08-23 07:09:36 UTC
Seems CODE players kept sending me eve mails suggesting I comment on this, so here we have a simple golden rule that will replace all that guff.

When you sign up to play Eve understand that you are signing up to play a game where you are to be farmed, it is how you react to that simple fact which defines whether Eve is for you.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2016-08-23 07:48:32 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Seems CODE players kept sending me eve mails suggesting I comment on this, so here we have a simple golden rule that will replace all that guff.

When you sign up to play Eve understand that you are signing up to play a game where you are to be farmed, it is how you react to that simple fact which defines whether Eve is for you.


its a farm or be farmed world Big smile

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ruby Gnollo
#63 - 2016-08-23 09:07:43 UTC
Put these rules on the CONCORD billboards and on-screen stations : most newcomers don't get what this game is before subscribing and end up frustrated, which is definitely bad for the future of Eve
Chris Kelvin
Pheonix Rising Corp
#64 - 2016-08-23 13:19:59 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Chris Kelvin wrote:
* You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea.

The first statement is true. And the second statement is false... Concord is there to protect!!!
Read it, and you're wrong; mechanically CONCORD have one job and that is to punish people who do one of the following:
Aggressing a player who is not a legal target in highsec.
Remote repairing NPC Ships
Remote repairing Criminal Players
Attacking CONCORD vessels
Having a criminal flag and jumping into Hi-Sec Space
Having low security status and jumping into a Hi-Sec System in the Sanctum Constellation.

Lorewise they exist A: to prevent us, the immortal and obscenely rich capsuleers, from taking over completely and B: to prevent large-scale open warfare between the four empire factions, settling any disputes before the Empires return to their old ways and start murdering each other.

If they were in the protection game they would be encouraging people to check that they've tanked their ships, running regular patrols down the trade routes, breaking up "space gangs" like CODE., taking down scammers etc.


Min Wei wrote:
I'm here to play the game, not be a victim.
Then don't act or look like one, the mechanics are already there, it's your choice whether or not you choose to use them.

Get ganked, offer a GF in local (it won't feel like a good fight and it's often the last thing you want to say but it goes a long way) and ask some questions; most are more than willing to tell you what they did and how you could have avoided it.

Get wardecced, contact the wardec corp, they want fights at the end of the day and I'd say most would be amenable to down shipping and bringing a similar number of players in order to get a fun fight. If your corp is full of newbies they may well be willing to do a talk afterwards and go through what people did right and what they didn't as well as provide decent fits for people to play with; they love newbies, especially bloodthirsty ones that are willing to learn.



If you choose to believe the myth and attempt to perpetuate it, that is your business entirely. Do not ask me to. As mentioned before Concord is a form of protection weather you agree with it or not. You don't have to put more conditions on it to make it protection. Just because it looks like punishment does not necessarily make it so. All I'm saying is that it is not always the victims fault (although there are literally thousands of examples where it is the fault of a pilot who is unaware of the mechanics) and those who choose to use the game to justify their own bad behavior are responsible for it, not the victim. BTW, gf!
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2016-08-23 14:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
protection = usually happens before an incident to prevent something happening
punishment = happens after the incident has occurred

concord arrive after an offence has been committed not before. however im sure you are right and that ccp guy is just being silly

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Solecist Project
#66 - 2016-08-23 14:38:59 UTC
Wow I didn't see this yet!

Awesomesauce!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#67 - 2016-08-23 14:46:28 UTC
CCP Phantom, could you sticky this in GD as well?

Please? Pretty please? :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#68 - 2016-08-23 15:09:06 UTC
Chris Kelvin wrote:



* You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea.


The first statement is true. And the second statement is false... Concord is there to protect!!! Before you all lose your minds, please take a moment to read. This is not meant to change the fundamental message...that is, you should not get the impression Concord will in any way be able to protect you if you do not plan for the inevitable confrontation, it is just meant to push back against the notion that it is always the victim's fault. Concord is there for protection but, in much the same way Police work, they often arrive way too late to impact the outcome. That means that even though you may take appropriate precautions such as fitting a strong tank, not carrying too much value in the cargo bay, and even with boosters and/or friends, a smart ganker can plan for and overcome all of these safeguards including the protection of Concord to blow you up. On the other side of that coin though, the smart industrialist/minor/carebear (that last term, carebear is another way of saying people with a conscience but, it is often used as an insult by the same folks that insist it is always the victims fault) can also outthink the smart ganker and use the Concord forces for an effective layer of defense or at the very least make that ganker pay way more isk than your loss is worth. Bottom line, always protect yourself but, don't buy into the myth that when you get blown up, it's somehow your fault! Using a game to justify a persons bad behavior is a reflection of themselves, not you!!!!!ShockedShockedBlinkAttention Have a wonderful day everyone!

Okay I missed this.

In lore they are police and only in lore.
In game they're a deterrent, nothing more.
A mechanical response to certain actions after the fact.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#69 - 2016-08-23 20:02:39 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Seems CODE players kept sending me eve mails suggesting I comment on this, so here we have a simple golden rule that will replace all that guff.

When you sign up to play Eve understand that you are signing up to play a game where you are to be farmed, it is how you react to that simple fact which defines whether Eve is for you.


its a farm or be farmed world Big smile

Eve is FarmVille?

Good way to sell the game Drac:

Eve - Just like FarmVille, but in space

Awesome slogan.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Solecist Project
#70 - 2016-08-23 20:41:51 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Seems CODE players kept sending me eve mails suggesting I comment on this, so here we have a simple golden rule that will replace all that guff.

When you sign up to play Eve understand that you are signing up to play a game where you are to be farmed, it is how you react to that simple fact which defines whether Eve is for you.


its a farm or be farmed world Big smile

Eve is FarmVille?

Good way to sell the game Drac:

Eve - Just like FarmVille, but in space

Awesome slogan.

I know it's horribly unrelated, but you reminded me of this... http://youtu.be/0LgpZyJihck

:D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Chris Kelvin
Pheonix Rising Corp
#71 - 2016-08-24 01:25:01 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
protection = usually happens before an incident to prevent something happening
punishment = happens after the incident has occurred

concord arrive after an offence has been committed not before. however im sure you are right and that ccp guy is just being silly



Speaking of looking silly, what was the name of those police officers that arrived at your house to protect you after the criminal had already taken you hostage?? Or what was the name of the helicopter pilot from the coast guard that arrived after your boat sank to save you? How about the name of the 911 dispatcher that took your call after your car was stolen? Last time I checked, the police, coast guard, and other civil services exist for our protection or are they just there for punishment?

Again, to repeat, the fundamental message that you should always protect yourself and use the game mechanics to your advantage and that you should not depend on Concord to save you is all very good advice and you should follow it. All I'm saying is the line of reasoning that concord is there to punish only feeds into the notion that somehow it is always the fault of the person on the receiving end of aggression....that is completely false....it is no less repugnant than a defense layer claiming that his rapist client is not at fault because the victim dressed provocatively thus, encouraging the attack. It's is a complete fallacy and you cannot use a game to justify bad behavior. It does not change the underlying message of what the original post was about but it does force you to remember your conscience, if the person in question has one.

However, I'm sure you are correct and the person at CCP you were referring to can say whatever they want and it is, of course, always true because, logic, reason, common sense...they all take a back seat to the word of CCP, right?? Would you like a monocle with that?
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#72 - 2016-08-24 05:46:35 UTC
Removed an off topic post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#73 - 2016-08-24 08:29:19 UTC
Chris Kelvin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
protection = usually happens before an incident to prevent something happening
punishment = happens after the incident has occurred

concord arrive after an offence has been committed not before. however im sure you are right and that ccp guy is just being silly



Speaking of looking silly, what was the name of those police officers that arrived at your house to protect you after the criminal had already taken you hostage?? Or what was the name of the helicopter pilot from the coast guard that arrived after your boat sank to save you? How about the name of the 911 dispatcher that took your call after your car was stolen? Last time I checked, the police, coast guard, and other civil services exist for our protection or are they just there for punishment?

Again, to repeat, the fundamental message that you should always protect yourself and use the game mechanics to your advantage and that you should not depend on Concord to save you is all very good advice and you should follow it. All I'm saying is the line of reasoning that concord is there to punish only feeds into the notion that somehow it is always the fault of the person on the receiving end of aggression....that is completely false....it is no less repugnant than a defense layer claiming that his rapist client is not at fault because the victim dressed provocatively thus, encouraging the attack. It's is a complete fallacy and you cannot use a game to justify bad behavior. It does not change the underlying message of what the original post was about but it does force you to remember your conscience, if the person in question has one.

However, I'm sure you are correct and the person at CCP you were referring to can say whatever they want and it is, of course, always true because, logic, reason, common sense...they all take a back seat to the word of CCP, right?? Would you like a monocle with that?

Given where we are I'll go easy on you but it should be needless to say that comparing being told to HTFU and be responsible for your own safety in a game explicitly about conflict and emergent players behavior
to real world traumatic experiences
is disingenuous and frankly insultingly malicious*, not mention utterly ridiculous.

Go tell anyone from your family that being told to be responsible for your own safety in any competitive multiplayer player game is in anyway compilable to what you are insinuating and I guarantee you they will tell you to take a step back from the internet for a couple of days.

Step back, calm down, go have a walk, hug your wife/kid's/dog or whatever it is makes you feel better.

This is a video game on the internet, nothing worth getting so wound up about.
*Malicious in the legal sense

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2016-08-24 08:47:55 UTC
Chris Kelvin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
protection = usually happens before an incident to prevent something happening
punishment = happens after the incident has occurred

concord arrive after an offence has been committed not before. however im sure you are right and that ccp guy is just being silly



Speaking of looking silly, what was the name of those police officers that arrived at your house to protect you after the criminal had already taken you hostage?? Or what was the name of the helicopter pilot from the coast guard that arrived after your boat sank to save you? How about the name of the 911 dispatcher that took your call after your car was stolen? Last time I checked, the police, coast guard, and other civil services exist for our protection or are they just there for punishment?


ok....thing with everything here is that it already happened and is not protection in any way at all.

what was the name of those police officers that arrived at your house to protect you after the criminal had already taken you hostage?? - they came to rescue you not protect you because you are a hostage, the shotgun under your bed is protection

Or what was the name of the helicopter pilot from the coast guard that arrived after your boat sank to save you? - they came to rescue you not protect you because you already sunk.

How about the name of the 911 dispatcher that took your call after your car was stolen? - nor is this protection, the alarm or steering lock you fit to the car is protection not calling the police to recover the car after it was stolen.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Kannach DuChassi
Vindicta Pirata
#75 - 2016-08-24 11:01:40 UTC
CCP Phantom

In earlier days in the game I can remember when half of those rules when you broke them CCP / EVE Online would come down and hard for the breaking of those infractions. It was in The Players EULA to follow. What happened????? I started the game at 2007 : 07-July : 05-05th @ 02:38 or 2:38 AM EDT or 06:38 or 6:38 AM EVE Server Time or 07:38 or 7:38AM GMT.

In that period I've been a long timer Yo-Yo player with my EVE Online account on hold by CCP/EVE Online (Thank you CCP/EVE Online administrators[whoever you all are] thank you[for long ago they sent a message to me in the early days that am I coming back or not & whether I would either wish my chatacter{still my only one to date/I haven't started another in the time I've played on Tranquility still to this very date/} to sell it or delete it. (Guess back then they had servers with less memory reserves to hold all the old accounts in escrow til either a player was or wasn't going to play/comeback then) Thank CCP/EVE Online for holding my account for still this game for however long it's been running. It's been the most fun space game I've played in my long gaming life.

How this happened that EVE Online De-evoled to the way it's played today it shocks me. Shocks me to see so many players back-stab & grab anything another player has. All for what .... That style of playing will only end up with this great game ending up being renamed to "Paranoia In Space Online". This needs to stop and End this set of the Paradigm to a Better more Saner form of Paradigm to play in "The Sandbox" better here.

In closing I have to say .... If that we could adopt a more Resourced Base Economy Format in the playing in this game where Good Honest Sharing & Bartering for stuff you wanted & needed was applied more so then I know that it would be the new start to bring back the old way we played here when EVE Online was in the very beginning.

To all of you .... Happy Gaming in Space. Remember In Space It's Better To Have In Space Many Friends, Family, & Allies than Many Enemies, Foes, & Traitors !!!!!! We all need to live in space .... Please Get along Please.... Thank you !!!!!!!!
Jasmine Deer
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2016-08-24 12:29:15 UTC
Kannach DuChassi wrote:

How this happened that EVE Online De-evoled to the way it's played today it shocks me. Shocks me to see so many players back-stab & grab anything another player has. All for what .... That style of playing will only end up with this great game ending up being renamed to "Paranoia In Space Online".


All for what you ask ?

* Scamming and unethical behavior some would consider griefing is not only allowed, it is encouraged and rewarded by the game mechanics.

And the tears. Never forget the tears.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#77 - 2016-08-26 01:42:03 UTC
Well, now. It seems that this thread has gone straight to Hell in a handbasket. Certainly not the type of thread that I'd be very enthusiastic about sending a new player to any more.

CONCORD are reactive, not proactive. Everyone in the game knows and understands this, even if they feel it should be the other way around. Arguing over the definition of "protect" and bringing real-world examples into a game is sad and pathetic for everyone involved (myself included, now).

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#78 - 2016-08-26 12:27:29 UTC
Several off-topic posts have been removed. Please stay on topic and consider the forum rules, thank you!

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Gallosek
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#79 - 2016-08-26 13:26:04 UTC
"Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you can't afford to lose."

Another way of putting it is

"Never fly something (or with something in cargo) you aren't prepared to lose."

Because you don't necessarily need to be able to replace that shiny ship/loot/cargo straight away, if you have something else you can use to earn back the difference to buy the replacement.
MaxRanger Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2016-08-26 15:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MaxRanger Padecain
Just don't know enough about this game to comment in a meaningful way.