EVE General Discussion

Very fair question and I am happy to answer it as best as I can. This is a longish post so apologies for the length.

I am basing my belief from my experiences as a teacher, educational consultant, and educational designer. I have experience using games to teach science, economics, and environmental consciousness. A large chunk of that experience is also teaching my students how to play the games themselves. I am also required to have a strong knowledge of learning theory, instructional design, and cognitive psychology.

As an example, I recently consulted with a museum who was looking to use Minecraft to teach microbiology content for one of their science classes. In the design of our curriculum and activities, we had to account for the fact that our student population will be comprised of Minecraft experts, novices, and newbies (of which our evaluations supported). Not to mention each student would have their own set of learning preferences.

So, what documentation, tutorials, or materials do you give the students? We experimented a little bit with how much up-front information we gave to the students before asking them to complete the activities.

For activities where we provided minimal, if any, documentation (e.g. hand-outs, lectures, or videos) and instead relied on student experts or teacher facilitation to help guide newcomers, we found that many of the students (especially the new players) became frustrated more easily because 1) While the learning goal was clear, how to accomplish it was not; 2) How to progress was unclear; 3) They did not feel confident in their knowledge. Many of these students were also requesting additional materials or help to reduce the cognitive overload they were experiencing.

When we provided a healthy balance of anchored instruction (Class, direct your attention to the projector... Here's how to do X which will help you build/work on Y), teacher facilitation (e.g. cycle around the classroom and ask students if they wanted help), and student collaboration/group work, we hit every possible approach that aligned with student learning preferences. If students wanted how-to guides we gave them upon request, if a student wanted to explore the environment on their own we gave them the freedom to do so, etc.

This is why I feel giving players no information (or very minimal) can be damaging. You don't want players to feel frustrated and overwhelmed when learning the very basics of the game. You want them to be frustrated during the entertaining parts such as when their ships got blown up, they couldn't kill their target, or their alliance sovereignty was removed. Those are the motivating experiences to continue playing and the gifts that keep on giving.

Giving users a clear baseline learning experience then allows them to learn in a way that aligns with their preferences (the creativity and storytelling that you talk about). Some will want to read guides, some want to play with others to learn, and some will watch videos, and a few others will journal about their experiences. What is important is that you're offering players a springboard to get started; not a crutch.

I am not asking for the in-game tutorials to provide encyclopedic knowledge. For one, that would be incredibly overwhelming and frustrating, but it also, and to which I agree with you, really stifles creativity. I just feel clearer and more directed information couldn't hurt (e.g. "If you'd like additional resources on fitting your ship, please go here, or go to this channel, or watch this in-game video", or Press F12 for career agents, here's a basic ship setup, etc.).

I hope this clearly answers your question and that it makes sense.

Thank you for the discussion!

Sources of interest
Azevedo, R., & Hadwin, A. F. (2005). Scaffolding self-regulated learning and metacognition–Implications for the design of computer-based scaffolds. Instructional Science, 33(5), 367-379.
Kolb, D. A. (2014). Experiential learning: Experience as the source of learning and development. FT press.
Merriam, S. B., Caffarella, R. S., & Baumgartner, L. M. (2012). Learning in adulthood: A comprehensive guide. John Wiley & Sons.
Turkay, S., Hoffman, D., Kinzer, C. K., Chantes, P., & Vicari, C. (2014). Toward understanding the potential of games for learning: learning theory, game design characteristics, and situating video games in classrooms. Computers in the Schools, 31(1-2), 2-22.
Wilson, L. (2009). Best practices for using games & simulations in the classroom guidelines for K 12 educators.



Yums!

No bad.

The thing is, what you are talking about already exists in sites maintained by players. Even after 9 years of playing I sometimes consult EVE-Unis site for an idea or clarification. Some have been saying "bring it in game" for all of EVE's life (9 years ago I was one of them, briefly), but I think many will agree that the players are better at that sort of thing and it's best CCP gets to concentrate on what they are actually good at.

This is why we have EFT and Pyfa from player sources whereas CCP struggles to introduce Ghost Fitting within the game itself. This is why we have EVE-Uni and Brave and Dreddit and Karma fleet and CAS while CCP itself struggles to figure out what to do with the NPE and Opportunities.

Many people over-estimate what CCP is capable of , which leads to frustration when it seems like they aren't moving fast enough. You'll be better off organizing some kind of new external resource than waiting for CCP to totally retool itself into the kind of company that can deliver what you think should happen.

Honestly content that appeals to the type of people that would enjoy game backed by good marketing would mostly likely do wonders.

My uneducated opinion is make a GOOD bounty hunter system. Finish up and polish player built structures and gates. Maybe make exploration a bit more interactive (the hacking mini game was a good start) but maybe some more content for those who wish to wander, Round it off with a good marketing team and i bet we would attract the type of players that we would want to see.

And just don't advertise false content, just thinking if I didn't know about eve I really wouldn't see it anywhere without the big battles happening anymore. It cant be denied that when news media outlets commented on eve, subs jumped. I think eve just lacks good marketing.

A surprising amount of people join eve without knowing how to handle a sandbox. Maybe more emphasis on it when advertising would lessen the shock/transition aswell.

And lore, more lore.

Okay maybe that last one is just for me.

Maybe??....

So... Day-Z in space?

I vote yes if (1) the starter system is inside a very small highsec island, (2)the station is seeded with basic equipment they need, (3)tutorial mission teach them the mechanic of bubble, scramble, web and weapon timer.

Yes, new players can be taught to explore, to measure risk against reward, to be able to put down their footprints in very corner of the EVE universe. They don't need to stay in high sec for years. There are about 1,000 systems in high sec, 800 in low sec, 2500 in wormhole and 3,500 in null sec. High sec is about 13% of the whole universe. It is such a waste that many players haven't visited the vast majority of solar systems in EVE.

Terror? Oh please. It's not terrifying to be ganked by an unescapable gate camp. It's just infuriating. The entire "exploration" experience is infuriating. The problem with EVE is the player experience required to retain new players, and that experience is bad more often than not. EVE is a game designed to prey on the weak and the new. It does a great job of it. And when you're new, you don't have any friends to back you up or help you out, so you just turn the game off, uninstall it for HD space and get on with your life.

>join a corp

you are being greedy here!
why should you want a 100% EVE experience when the game is built to play only some specific roles for each account, thus the teamwork, thus the friends, thus the fun?

people are the problem: they want the 100% and can't think of a 20% part. you only need 5 people to get the 100%!
teamwork!

for example i have only this account! for now

'

If you don't like the way a company you buy from does business, stop buying from them. It's not hard.