EVE General Discussion

While I agree 100% with this sentiment, and am living proof that it works....

I do think that many of us underestimate the challenges in the modern EVE universe which didn't face us when we started - and/or we take for granted and under-value other advantages we had in the form of people willing to take time to talk to us about what we were doing right/wrong and help us learn (at least for most of us). If you didn't have that - then presumably you were able to look up guides/etc online for ideas on how to improve.


8 years ago when I started for example:
- Even though I was in a mediocre PvE corp, they encouraged weekly corp roams (which all ended terribly because they all sucked at PvP - literally I'm the only competent PvP player to arise from the ashes of that corp) and they *had fun* with it - even though they died constantly and killed almost nothing. When we got war-decced by some of the scariest mercs in the game? We fought back! We even killed a few - it was *great* for morale.
- Once I had a taste for PvP - I could roam right into Amamake herself and the surrounding systems and find ratters and other solo PvPers combing the belts that I could fight. Even as a noob, I stood a chance against most of them, and enjoyed even the fights I couldn't win.
- I had chats with the people who killed me - they were friendly and happy to share fittings and advice.
- etc...


Modern Day EVE:
- Good ****ing luck finding a random PvE corp that is willing to engage in weekly roams or fight back in a wardec...
- Good ****ing luck finding another solo newb derping around ratting/hunting solo belt ratters anywhere in low-sec without first hitting a gate-camp, roaming fleet, or "serious" PvPer with billions of isk invested in his "solo" setup
- Some of the chats are still around, but *most* PvPers I've encountered are sick of explaining things to noobs who don't "get it", and prefer to either ignore them or insult/troll them.
- Additionally - Nobody ever teaches these new players how to save their ****ing pods - so they don't live long enough to ask any questions anyway.


Do you see what is missing? The new player in the modern EVE, left primarily to their own devices to learn PvP (rather than joining a PvP group that will encourage *group* oriented PvP rather than *solo*) is left to fumble around being farmed mercilessly - without anybody to explain where they are going wrong or give them useful tips.

They never get a taste for PvP - because all they know is defeat, after defeat, after defeat, after defeat. Unless they are incredibly lucky, they'll never get any kills to start building their sense of confidence or fun - at least not before they give up on PvP as a hopeless cause.



As I say - I 100% encourage getting them into PvP. And I 100% agree with you they need to learn not to fear death.

But barring a miracle - they aren't going to learn the right lessons if they are thrown out there alone - they are *far* better off joining a good new-player-friendly PvP corp, where they can get a taste for PvP farming kills with a fleet.

For the good ones, perhaps this taste for PvP will inspire them to adventure more on their own and figure out how to operate solo, even in the modern EVE... But they have to get that taste for PvP *first*

Injectors are floating around the 600 million isk mark, and realistically most of them are being injected @ maximum loss for the serious injectors - so call that 150k sp each - that is actually 4,000 isk per SP But sure, 4000, 2000, whatever.

But the main issue with it even as a theoretical exercise, if we ignore the transitional issues - is that all it results in is the same end result as skill injectors, minus the ridiculous profits for CCP....

So yeah... There is that...

LOL. A not-so-stealth, "We need more victims to kill in low sec" thread. How quaint!

What is missing is the type of player CCP felt they didn't have to cater for any more years ago, because they would be replaced with more mainstream players who aren't content creators, aren't leaders or people who get stuff done. CCP wanted to attract carebears and mainstream customers. This of course helped by the massive "globalisation" of alliances and coalitions which, also full of carebears, needed warm bodies for their war machine.

The concept of quality over quantity got trampled on through advertising with massive fleet combat, the whole special snowflake stance where mediocrity and shittiness is found to be cool. Resulting in a numbers game and fleet sizes we couldn't have dreamt up 8 years ago.

If you want to go back to basics then all it takes is to do exactly that and accept that doing so will make you look like Don Quichot fighting windmills, and be ok with that. If you want change then start with changing yourself. Go start a corp teaching newbies PVP, be a content creator.

We need reasonable solutions baltec, not miracles. Sheesh.

Naw, I've recruited/trained new players for years.

I'm unsubscribed now and when my sub ends I'm gone.

I've seen nothing in the past 9 months to make me change that decision.

I may lament the old days. I may even rant about them more than I probably should - but I'm not the one to fix them.

Good Luck o7

Don't change a thing! Yes, I've lost ships to gangbangers, bubble gates, gate campers, all that. But then I devised tactics to improve my chances of survival, and quite frankly I'm not looking for PvP. What engages me in this game is sneaking in, do what I came for, then get out alive. If that involves PvP then I do what I've got to do, and most of that is figuring out when to cut and run. The old saying is to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em and most of my losses came when I failed to cut and run, looking for that last bit of Arkonor, or that last rat Admiral salvage or thinking that two Skiffs can take down a Vexor. They can, actually, but the Vexor had one of those Cyno things and brought in a carrier pretty well on top of my Skiffs and that was the end of all that.

Null-sec is pretty well the badlands, where anybody can do anything and that's the way it should be. If you seek instant gratification then this is not your game. You build then fit your ships, then take them into harms way and if they get you then you figure out a better fit or a better way to do whatever. There is no right and wrong and fair is not a viable concept. And when you lose all your fancy ships then it's back to the grind until you can do it all over again, but maybe tweak this or swap that.

Whether you fly solo, in a group or multibox, there's a zillion different ways to play this game. CCP changes what they feel they should, we as players should simply adapt and roll with the flow.

The single change I'd encourage is for flying solo in low sec is eliminating alt accounts. Not going to happen, I know. But here's a typical encounter:
-Lonely corner of low sec, tumbleweeds. Solo guy is there, doing FW plexing or something.
-One other guy appears in Local. Dscanning happens.
-One guy warps to the other in a frig.
-Other guy either takes the bait, or ASAP turns his arse and flees before scram.
-If he chose to be standup and take the fight, the other guy's shiny alt ship warps in and the frig and shiny kill him.

Bottom line is, to counter it, you need a dual accounts vs. a dual account. If you don't have that, the only sensible thing to do is to vamoose and avoid the fight. That's something a solo PVPer is loathe to do in low sec. Kind of stinks of playing high sec PVP game mechanics games. But that's the way it is. Solo low sec PVPer might be a solo hunter, but it's hard to win unless he has a shipped alt ready.

Anyway, alt account ship combat is never going to go away. Same as alt cyno-JF freighters teams never going to go away. Sad though, because the dual account advantage stuffs the box hard against the average regular joe not yet hardcore player. How can even an experienced MMO guy going understand the mechanics of what appear to be two players fighting his one ship? I suppose he'd get it in time-- if he likes the game that much and stays in it long enough.

Anyway, solo low sec PVP perforce can only be for the diligent few oddball outliers.

I'm past that point and just came back, still unsure if I should keep to the "fck it, I'm just going to pay EVE a little bit without being too active" or give it another full go and go back to what I did early on in the game, which is exactly what we're talking about. This specific character is created with a more active role in mind to see if I could/would really do another full-on run.