EVE General Discussion

Well, I wasn't directly referring to myself or my choices, only what the other players I've talked to about it have said, and that's just observational because it's he-said she-said, so it's worth about nothing.

So, you can call them selfish if you want but when you pay money to play a game, I think you're entitled to a bit of selfishness, and if you weren't why would you play? Are you there for the fun of other people or yourself?

Try analyzing your own actions in the game and here in the forums. Do you do it selflessly for others or for what you view is the game you want to play? If you do that analysis honestly, I think you'll come to some startling conclusions.

There is a difference between what people want to do to enhance their game play with the ideas/suggestions they make to do it and between just playing the game and seeing how it works out for everyone including themselves.

To me, the selfishness exists when someone wants to do away with someone else's area of the sandbox because they don't like it or understand it or even acknowledge it's legitimacy. That's pretty selfish to me, but I try to allow for selfishness and acknowledge that it's part of human nature and EVE in large measures. Altruism is really not a common quality of EVE, only in rare instances do I see it regularly.

I don't care how people actually play EVE as long as it's within the rules of the game. If you come up with a new scam or way to take down a HiSec Carebear, that's fine, even if I'm the one you take down. I'll live and learn. To me, that's the beauty of EVE. People figure out stuff all the time that's new. You have to give them the freedom and acceptance to do it though. I think when that goes away, then the game will stagnate.

My advice is to sit back, analyze what EVE is to YOU (because that's all that matters in the small picture, and I am using "you" in the "everyone" vein). Has it gotten so away from what you feel is a good game, worked well and was fun to play that you cannot do what you like to have fun any more? If so, maybe EVE died a while ago for you. I will mourn with you as it's sad and tragic. However, if you find that you can still play the way you like, still do the things you like to do, even surrounded by 10,000 other players that are selfish and greedy and do things their way, then maybe EVE isn't so dead but is pretty resilient.

I'm just talking garbage here, I could be waaaaay off base, thinking backwards, being a egalitarian carebear (Let them eat cake! ) and I'm well beyond trying to convince anyone of any 'one way' to play or perceive EVE. I'd really just like people to consider things a little differently and try to be more open about things. I guess I'm weird and messed up in the head.

To add to your anecdote, data is starting to show that CAS is amongst the most active starter NPC Corporations.

Not related directly to the question of retention (Sol forgive me for posting this here), but looking purely at pvp activity within the starter Corps, CAS has the shortest average time to reach 2000 killmails (both kills and losses).

Given that it is the third most populace starter Corp, that's not surprising. However when you normalise activity for the size of the Corp, it's still right near the top:

https://puu.sh/qL6S6/728ee580c6.png

That table doesn't show it well, so graphs are being worked on at the moment, however even that table shows some interesting things.

For example, while CAS is only 15 days average per 2000 kills/losses, the same number of killmails takes 73 days in Hedion University (almost 5 times longer - but is a smaller Corp).

The second column normalises the pvp by time (with CAS being assigned an activity of 1).

Federal Navy Academy and State War Academy have similar activity levels, just looking at pvp, which isn't surprising given those 3 are the largest starter Corps.

However, after normalising for the size of the Corp, both Fed Navy and State War drop down a little in comparison to CAS, but Hedion doesn't really pick up much. Pvp wise, members are only about half as active in Hedion as in CAS.

Interestingly, Republic University, which is only 40% the size of CAS, averages just under 2x the time required to hit 2000 kills/losses, but after normalising for Corp size, it is the most active on average per character per unit time (just looking at pvp activity).

RUN also has the highest success in null (ie. best K/D ratio in null), but CAS the highest overall numbers of kills+losses in null.

Those figures are just anecdotal support, not conclusive. Anyone reading this post, please don't shoot them down - they are not conclusive of anything, just interesting observations (and I'll post more complete data not related to retention, in a separate thread).

What strikes me as odd are the numbers for lowse.. how does that work?

"That table doesn't show it well, so graphs are being worked on at the moment" ...
... you have someone else to work through it?

Do you look for numbers of people older than a month?

Sheesh i forgot to look into this! D:

Quickest route to the CAS nullsec base is through orvolle (high) straight to PF (null), no lowsec, just the initiative camps to negotiate.

CAS pilots that participate in a combat day wind up with a clone in RF and are made aware of the CAS Logistics jump freighter service - I only technically needed to travel to RF once, which can sometimes be done at the start of the combat days, with scouts and an FC to guide new players.

Also CAS has an associated alliance, CAStabouts, which depending on what you want to achieve with the analysis you may want to use or disregard the extra activity.

Why aren't you guys swarming the other rookie- and npc-corps regularly?

I don't think removal is a good approach.
Adds a lot of work.

I think a minimalistic approach to avoid work is prefferable.
"All" they'd need is to be open for everyone to manually switch into.

Half a year later, after groups have been established ...
... people have settled and the initial dynamics have slowed down ...
... CCP can look at the data.

And from there they can expand on it, if the approach was successfull.

That way they don't have to change too much ...
... while still changing a lot ... sheesh, this coffee is weak.....

If you add paragraphs after the points it would be perfect.

Your reasons are well noted, but they're also irrelevant.
The point, of which we all benefit when we work together, is to increase retention rate.

No one means your identity and your achievements any harm ...
... but your support is needed here.

Reducing the number of corps is not a solution.
You risk clashing too differently minded people together.

Your change would be massive and completely unnecessary ...

It would give those who give bad advice an even bigger audience!
It will very likely disrupt the current social structures and cultures.
You'd cause unorganized chaos.

"well now more people stick together so it'll work out" is NOT a proper approach, sorry. :P


All that needs to happen is having them all open for everyone to join.

That way already existing social structures can bring life into where it's needed ...
... and new players would turn into a valuable asset, which is the best thing that could happen.

"CAS has passed a threshold where activity is pretty much self-sustaining"

what does this mean?

regarding the rest can i only say that i feel like you are overthinking this ...


Holy Hell, all 12 ... of course not!

I need to be a lot more detailed!

Will be able to publish results by the weekend.

I have a Uni assignment due today, so have been concentrating more on writing code for that, than for the retention analysis.

Just by eye looking at some of the graphs, there is a difference, but whether it is statistically significant or not I can't tell yet.

It looks like there are a couple of different groupings forming from the data we can access as players. So as well as looking at whether CAS have an increased retention, I'll also look at whether a couple of the others have a statistically significant decreased retention compared to the rest.

In any case, it's fun looking at this stuff and I'll get back to this as soon as my assignment is submitted today.

Having a Super dropped on your cruiser is considered a bad thing? I'd be stoked!


I'm a fan of CAS, and have many of my scanning and scouting alts in there for the times things are slow. If there were ever a focused effort on livening up one of the other starter corps, Imperial Academy might be the one to look at.

They're Amarrian, and are combat-focused based on their lore. In addition to the group running their own ops and events, it might be possible to try to work something out with Provibloc to involve new players in non-strategic ops and roams and to help the new players get out of highsec and get involved with larger groups. Love them or hate them, Provibloc have their schtick, and when it comes to getting new ideas off the ground, having a defining trait can be extremely helpful.