These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Ore Hold in the Orca and Rorqual
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
xXxNIMRODxXx
Arial Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#1 - 2016-07-24 15:56:48 UTC
Make it accessible for the whole fleet to dump the ore in there, much easier, like a fleet hangar.
Memphis Baas
#2 - 2016-07-24 17:21:11 UTC
Personally I'd love to see a special tractor module, and some sort of towable large container (that can follow in warp and across session changes), so we can tow materials and cargo like a trailer attached to a truck.

Feel free to make the container huge size, and require the towing ship to use "fuel" to be able to tow it.

And, said container is in-space, and thus vulnerable to attack, which is a bonus.
Iain Cariaba
#3 - 2016-07-24 18:57:25 UTC
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Make it accessible for the whole fleet to dump the ore in there, much easier, like a fleet hangar.

Have you tried using the actual fleet hangar these ships already come with?

Also, if you're having the miners dumping ore directly into the Orca you're doing it wrong. Either the miner has to stop mining to approach the Orca, or you're bringing the Orca very close to the belt, which might pose problems if you have to warp out quickly.

Orca with t1 tractor beam pulls cans in from 70km at 1km/s. T2 tractor beams are even better, and when combined with an MTU lets you pull in jet cans rather quickly.

There's no reason at all to bring a Rorqual out of the POS shield where it's providing boosts.
Echo Mande
#4 - 2016-07-24 18:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Echo Mande
What I would like would be for Rorqual and Orca to get non-siege compression ability. This would be very in character, with the ships receiving ore from tractored cans, haulers or direct from mining ships, then compressing and storing it until every once in a while a hauler transported the compressed ore to station. With CCP looking to remove off-field boosting the Orca/Rorqual will be in the belt anyway.

The Orca could do with a bigger ore hold but that isn't IMO the biggest issue. An ore hold of 60K m3 for the orca would probably be fine. A slightly larger fleet hanger (also of around 60K) would be outstanding. Some way to mount one or more tractor beams on an orca alongside boosting modules would be both in character and highly desireable. If the ability to mount a heavier active tank alongside a survey scanner and SeBo were also included (you can do it now but it takes all your midslots) it would be perfect.

Wallet remarks everywhere
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#5 - 2016-07-25 00:41:25 UTC
The fleet hangar is pretty much the size of the ore hangar. Just use the fleet hangar and tell your orca pilot to stop being lazy/afk

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
xXxNIMRODxXx
Arial Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#6 - 2016-07-25 17:32:46 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Make it accessible for the whole fleet to dump the ore in there, much easier, like a fleet hangar.

Have you tried using the actual fleet hangar these ships already come with?

Also, if you're having the miners dumping ore directly into the Orca you're doing it wrong. Either the miner has to stop mining to approach the Orca, or you're bringing the Orca very close to the belt, which might pose problems if you have to warp out quickly.

Orca with t1 tractor beam pulls cans in from 70km at 1km/s. T2 tractor beams are even better, and when combined with an MTU lets you pull in jet cans rather quickly.

There's no reason at all to bring a Rorqual out of the POS shield where it's providing boosts.


Thanks for your lecture. Please point me on the statement where I ask tips about mining....
.............."meh"....
Roll

Daichi Yamato wrote:
The fleet hangar is pretty much the size of the ore hangar. Just use the fleet hangar and tell your orca pilot to stop being lazy/afk

It's actually not enough m8.... Twisted
morion
Lighting Build
#7 - 2016-07-26 01:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
Echo Mande wrote:
What I would like would be for Rorqual and Orca to get non-siege compression ability. .


This single line effects the Ice market commodity value...

Its also inaccurate the Orca does not currently compress or use ice fuel...

Or you meant to say the Orca needs a industrial core that runs on magic?

Orca has less than 1% of the power grid to fit a industrial core.

Also requires a fitting to be CCP created that runs on cap not ice fuel. "for both"

Replacing fuel value with free capacitor.
Echo Mande
#8 - 2016-07-26 09:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Echo Mande
morion wrote:
Echo Mande wrote:
What I would like would be for Rorqual and Orca to get non-siege compression ability. .


This single line effects the Ice market commodity value...

Its also inaccurate the Orca does not currently compress or use ice fuel...

Or you meant to say the Orca needs a industrial core that runs on magic?

Orca has less than 1% of the power grid to fit a industrial core.

Also requires a fitting to be CCP created that runs on cap not ice fuel. "for both"

Replacing fuel value with free capacitor.

I fail to see how on-board fuel-less compression would change the ice market. Currently ore and ice compression is already possible in any citadel and at POS compression arrays. On-board fuel-less compression would make hauling easier but would not increase supply or demand.

I don't feel that the orca or Rorqual should have to mount the industrial core to compress and the case could be made for removing the thing from the game or giving it a radically new role alongside the Rorqual's reworking. That new role could still include boost and possibly compression but not neccesarily require immobility or fuel use. As for fitting the core to an Orca, there are plenty of ships that have a 90%+ CPU, grid and/or capacitor use bonus for mounting certain modules (attack battlecruisers anyone?) While we're at it, applying such bonuses to the Orca mounting capital tractor beams at the cost of its current tractor bonuses might be something to consider.

There are of course ways to go halfway. Give the Rorqual and Orca, without core active, boost bonuses like those the Orca currently has and allow both to activate the industrial core (running on cap or fuel) for a higher bonus and the ability to compress, possibly at the cost of mobility. Changes to the core could also be a part of CCP's push to move (mining) boosts onto the grid while still leaving Rorquals and Orcas (somewhat) protected.

Wallet remarks everywhere
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#9 - 2016-07-26 13:56:50 UTC
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Thanks for your lecture. Please point me on the statement where I ask tips about mining....

Another deluded sole that thinks we are only allowed to respond in certain ways and only allowed to respond to questions asked. The simply truth is you asked for the lecture when you posted this idea.

So here comes another lecture you did not ask for.
In features and idea you post your idea or request for a feature and within certain limits (we are supposed to play nice with each other) we are allowed to post whatever our reactions are to your idea or feature so in reality this is working as intended.
xXxNIMRODxXx
Arial Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#10 - 2016-08-23 21:22:45 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Thanks for your lecture. Please point me on the statement where I ask tips about mining....

Another deluded sole that thinks we are only allowed to respond in certain ways and only allowed to respond to questions asked. The simply truth is you asked for the lecture when you posted this idea.

So here comes another lecture you did not ask for.
In features and idea you post your idea or request for a feature and within certain limits (we are supposed to play nice with each other) we are allowed to post whatever our reactions are to your idea or feature so in reality this is working as intended.


Going off-topic is something I never asked in the beginning
Lando Tarsadan
Doomheim
#11 - 2016-08-24 14:21:30 UTC
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:


[quote=Daichi Yamato]The fleet hangar is pretty much the size of the ore hangar. Just use the fleet hangar and tell your orca pilot to stop being lazy/afk

It's actually not enough m8.... Twisted


So you are asking for a larger fleet hangar ?

I mean you have 30k m3 on the fleet hangar and 40 k in the ore hold and depending on fit and rigs about the same ammount in normal hangar. imho that should be enogh. as the orca pilot can move stuff around in the orca while watching all the barges shoot pretty lasers.

Sure the ore hold on other vessels have changed and alot. it would be cool to make the fleet hangar the same space as the miamos or bigger. but honestly i dont need to have 3 or more hangars accessable from outside space by anyone else than the pilot flying the ship. the ship hangar and maint bay imho is enogh. the space is a probably a number in a table in the database where adding more hangars to the UI n what not is probably something that requires some dev time plus Q/A for something that is overcome with the pilot moving stuff around.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-08-24 17:00:09 UTC
Lando Tarsadan wrote:
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:


[quote=Daichi Yamato]The fleet hangar is pretty much the size of the ore hangar. Just use the fleet hangar and tell your orca pilot to stop being lazy/afk

It's actually not enough m8.... Twisted


So you are asking for a larger fleet hangar ?

I mean you have 30k m3 on the fleet hangar and 40 k in the ore hold and depending on fit and rigs about the same ammount in normal hangar. imho that should be enogh. as the orca pilot can move stuff around in the orca while watching all the barges shoot pretty lasers.

Sure the ore hold on other vessels have changed and alot. it would be cool to make the fleet hangar the same space as the miamos or bigger. but honestly i dont need to have 3 or more hangars accessable from outside space by anyone else than the pilot flying the ship. the ship hangar and maint bay imho is enogh. the space is a probably a number in a table in the database where adding more hangars to the UI n what not is probably something that requires some dev time plus Q/A for something that is overcome with the pilot moving stuff around.


Actually it';s 40k in the fleet hangar and 50k in the ore hold, plus cargo. The Orca my alt flies holds roughly 130k of ore before it's full.

@OP. Use a hauler. That's what they're for - to keep your orca from filling up.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2016-08-24 17:02:32 UTC
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Make it accessible for the whole fleet to dump the ore in there, much easier, like a fleet hangar.


or the orca/rorq pilot can just be attentive enough to move from fleet to ore hold evey 5-30 min

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-08-24 17:04:43 UTC
The Orca pilot has to do SOMETHING..... other than sit there and do nothing..... Managing between the Ore and fleet hangars while people put in and take out cargo isn't too much to ask.



Though I'm not sure constantly moving stacks of ore could be considered good gameplay either.....

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Solecist Project
#15 - 2016-08-24 18:21:35 UTC
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Make it accessible for the whole fleet to dump the ore in there, much easier, like a fleet hangar.

This is false.

It would make nothing easier.

All it would do ...
... is allow you to spend the three seconds you need to drag it over ...
... for something else liks youtube or netflix.


That's not hard, you're just lazy.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2016-08-24 20:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
I agree.

I'll give you guys the extreme example that exists right now:

The rorqual has a fleet hangar with 30k m/3 and an ore hold of 250k m/3 (we'll leave out the cargo for now). If I want tO move the ore from my barges to my ore hold, I have to click and drag 9 stacks of ore into the hold, for what purpose? A mackinaw has to drop ore twice, because his cargo is too big. If 3 skiffs or 4 hulks need to drop ore, we have to queue them up while I play click-and-drag online. And considering the ship can hold 400k m/3+ of ore, and specialized for ore, why is it more difficult to use than a work around method?

a similar but smaller problem exists for the orca.

So, in my onpinion, I'm curious as to why click+drag is being defended as an essential part of mining. And it makes me curious if the same defenders would have a similar opinion on "loot all" and shift+select dragging multiple items at once. It only takes 3 seconds, right?

If you really think the hauler needs something to do to justify making him insane, why not make it something interesting or (dare I say) fun?
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-08-25 02:53:37 UTC
Was always corious why the hell Orca is splitted by 3 hangars. SMB is fine.

And why it has bonuses for main csrgo hanga but not specific for Ore bay since it's mining support vessel. Thus simply makes it great sub cap hauler. If that's the csse lets have spefic ammo and charges hangars with all hulls.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2016-08-25 03:57:01 UTC
Rowells wrote:


If you really think the hauler needs something to do to justify making him insane, why not make it something interesting or (dare I say) fun?




Orca shouldn't BE the hauler. Orca should be the central command and control. I don't find it particularly good gameplay, dragging and dropping ore between hangars, but don't think the ore hold should be fleet hangar #2 either. Rather, just drop the ore hold, and combine it all into a single fleet hangar, or split the difference across the fleet hangar and cargo bay, then limit the fleet hangar to just ore, minerals, and crystals if there are concerns the orca would be so unbalanced with that much cargo space.





The idea behind the ore hold was to give the Orca a bay so it could do it's job of mining support without giving it too much cargo space for general storage, because let's face it, if your package fits in an orca, it's an infinitely better hauler than a freighter. Maybe that's a statement on the bads of freighters, IDK.....


All things being equal, the ore hold missed its mark, as did the ammo holds and PI holds and whatever. Better to scrap them all, go back to standard cargo's and fleet hangars, then give the haulers uniqueness based on things like agility, total cargo, durability, or defensive capabilities(ability to fight back).


But, this shouldn't be a stealth 'Give my orca more because it's not already waaaayyyy too good at too many things' thread. The Orca is already well worth every isk spent on it due to the amount of versatility it has. Resolving that bad bay is fine, but it needs to be done in some other way than just 'oh we'll change the name to fleet hangar #2.'

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-08-25 17:19:20 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Rowells wrote:


If you really think the hauler needs something to do to justify making him insane, why not make it something interesting or (dare I say) fun?


Orca shouldn't BE the hauler. Orca should be the central command and control. I don't find it particularly good gameplay, dragging and dropping ore between hangars, but don't think the ore hold should be fleet hangar #2 either. Rather, just drop the ore hold, and combine it all into a single fleet hangar, or split the difference across the fleet hangar and cargo bay, then limit the fleet hangar to just ore, minerals, and crystals if there are concerns the orca would be so unbalanced with that much cargo space.

The idea behind the ore hold was to give the Orca a bay so it could do it's job of mining support without giving it too much cargo space for general storage, because let's face it, if your package fits in an orca, it's an infinitely better hauler than a freighter. Maybe that's a statement on the bads of freighters, IDK.....

All things being equal, the ore hold missed its mark, as did the ammo holds and PI holds and whatever. Better to scrap them all, go back to standard cargo's and fleet hangars, then give the haulers uniqueness based on things like agility, total cargo, durability, or defensive capabilities(ability to fight back).

But, this shouldn't be a stealth 'Give my orca more because it's not already waaaayyyy too good at too many things' thread. The Orca is already well worth every isk spent on it due to the amount of versatility it has. Resolving that bad bay is fine, but it needs to be done in some other way than just 'oh we'll change the name to fleet hangar #2.'


I see your point, but I'll disagree on the Orca's role in a fleet. I see the Orca (and Rorqual) covering the broader spectrum of mining operation support. A place for the foreman to run the operation and to fill in on the shortcomings of the barges and the needs of the operation as a whole. Boosting, surveying, logistics, etc. The Orca definitely has the bonuses and necessities needed on the ship, but a lot of them fall short to the point where it's only unique property becomes the mining link bonus (which appears to also be at risk of being handed to another ship). For most attributes, there are numerous ships that perform much better or at a much higher cost efficiency. And while I don't think the Orca needs a full and definitive lead on these ships, it's missing something that makes it a uniquely strong option to use.

It has a tractor beam bonus which is fairly useful in of itself, but it's lack or range and the existence of the MTU make it a somewhat poor choice as opposed to running the third link (imo another issue with the ship).

It has an ore bay, good cargo, and a decently sized fleet hangar. However all of those things lend it toward over-generalization at the cost of specialization. The ore hold is smaller than a miasmos, the fleet hangar is the same as a DST, and the cargo bay only beats T1 and T2 haulers. Of course buffing all three simply steps on the toes of multiple ship classes, which is also not good.

Ther survey scanner bonus is definitely useful and is one of the bonuses I find to be close to or on target for its purpose.

The SMB is a decent bonus, but it doesn't carry very much considering the sizes of some of the ships it may be intended for. The one saving benefit is that there is no restriction on the type of ship it stores.

If I were to push the Orca properly into a uniquely strong support option for mining, there are a multitude of changes I could use to accomplish that.

Accessing the ore bay like a fleet hangar would be one of those options, but I definitely won't say it's the only option.