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Just too frustrating.

Author
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#21 - 2016-08-23 21:41:55 UTC
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:
So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out.

That or you're too thoroughly concussed from being beaten with the wrong end of the stick to bother explaining anything to.

Let's apply Occam's razor for a moment
Either a) the game that's been going since 2003 and has been infamous for its complexity for years is run by incompetent devs
Or b) the couple of day old newbie might be talking out his arse.

On balance now , which do you honestly think is more likely the case...
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2016-08-23 21:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:
So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out.

That or you're too thoroughly concussed from being beaten with the wrong end of the stick to bother explaining anything to.

Let's apply Occam's razor for a moment
Either a) the game that's been going since 2003 and has been infamous for its complexity for years is run by incompetent devs
Or b) the couple of day old newbie might be talking out his arse.

On balance now , which do you honestly think is more likely the case...


i choose A, 100%, no doubts on my mind

p.s. and btw using the occam's razor don't help to keep the conversation at low elo Roll
eveyn
#23 - 2016-08-23 21:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: eveyn
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:
So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out.



Intuitive Learning Curve:
oooh cool. that ship looks badass! I wonder how much it will cost to fl... holy hell, it's THAT much?! How will I ever earn enou...wait. the tutorials showed me how to mine, rat, mission, and there's this annoying blinking thing on my screen tha... WOAH! a chat group? HAIGUYZ!! u wot m8?? Join your corp? Iderno =\ I don't know muc.... you'll show me the ropes?!111!? thereRropes?!!?

or.

cool ship. what do you mean "I don't have the prerequisite skills to fly this ship"? *looksit skills* ooh, I see. So to fly this muther-doo-hickey, I need X, Y, and Z skills. What about gun...oh. nm. I see it now.
Looks like a game plan to me!


Straight
Well. Not to you I suppose. I was speaking in the universal sense.
Also: not for nothin', but I kinda think this was bait. +/-1 to the OP if so?
iderno.
Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#24 - 2016-08-23 21:54:58 UTC
Eve world is just "old school", 'cause it's kinda... old. Back in time it was normal to have no explanation on what the drek's goin' on and no guide or tutorial. People were forced to discover everything by themselves or to acquire information from others. Info was valuable. People worked hard to collect it and bring to others - sometimes just for "thanks".

Now things are quite more simple: we got a lot of already made guides and explanations almost on everything around the net, so all you need is just open any wiki and read all you need to know.

If ya wanna know what REAL troubles are, try something like THIS.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#25 - 2016-08-23 21:56:42 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:
So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out.

That or you're too thoroughly concussed from being beaten with the wrong end of the stick to bother explaining anything to.

Let's apply Occam's razor for a moment
Either a) the game that's been going since 2003 and has been infamous for its complexity for years is run by incompetent devs
Or b) the couple of day old newbie might be talking out his arse.

On balance now , which do you honestly think is more likely the case...


i choose A, 100%, no doubts on my mind

p.s. and btw using the occam's razor don't help to keep the conversation at low elo Roll

Here, I'm going out of my way not to flat out call him a dumbass, still insulting him granted but not directly.

Pissing and moaning, calling the devs incompetent in general discussion is basically burning one of the easiest,
most accessable avenues of learning how not to such at eve, particularly after being told so.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-08-23 21:58:45 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Here, I'm going out of my way not to flat out call him a dumbass, still insulting him granted but not directly.


you just did Shocked
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#27 - 2016-08-23 22:04:01 UTC
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
#28 - 2016-08-23 22:07:27 UTC
I am going ti take you at face value as a truely new, disgruntled pilot.

First advice: calm down. Second, press F12. If that doesnt give you any help please use the Q&A section, EVE Uni, or reddit. Third, hace you ever thought about what you want to do? There is a cliff to climb, not a curve. It takes time and research to be good ajd efficient at tasks in this game. Find a corp, using the handy in-game search feature for recruitment, to find a group that does similar things. The road after that is long, fun, and vicious. Even when you "figure out" someone with better understanding will cockslap you and break your toys. Welcome to New Eden.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#29 - 2016-08-23 22:10:33 UTC
Sadly EvE removed its own EvEPedia, glad there's a "sort of" version on my EvE fansite. Stuff is still current as of 2016.


That being said, EvE is "old school" and also a sandbox. Sandboxes are inherently made to be explored by trial and error, if you give a "guide" or "walkthrough" a sandbox gets quite spoiled imo.

Old school means, it's made for another generation of players, who to be honest, had what it takes to play those challenging games of old.

I am perma-subscribed to another 2003 sandbox MMO too, where:

1) Quest NPCs don't appear on map. You need to find them visually.

2) Even when you are in the general vicinity, they won't show if they have quests on them or not. You have to get really close.

3) They give this kind of direction: "Your stuff is below a rock somewhere in the southern portion of [continent name]", where by continent we mean some ultra-massive area you could take weeks to walk through.

4) Close to ZERO online "guides".


EVERYTHING is community knowledge, you either get to know somebody who has done the quest and kindly takes you there, or you are on your own.

EvE is easy mode.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#30 - 2016-08-23 22:19:57 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:


Please tell Ralph I said Hi when you see him! :D



*(this just HAS to be a word lol)

Ralph's gpu drivers are ****ed at the moment so no house calls for now, not that he's worth it.

"Abled" is the word you are looking forBlink
Solecist Project
#31 - 2016-08-23 22:21:36 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


Please tell Ralph I said Hi when you see him! :D



*(this just HAS to be a word lol)

Ralph's gpu drivers are ****ed at the moment so no house calls for now, not that he's worth it.

"Abled" is the word you are looking forBlink

Low abled?
That sounds even worse! :D

Are you using an ati?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#32 - 2016-08-23 22:27:56 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


Please tell Ralph I said Hi when you see him! :D



*(this just HAS to be a word lol)

Ralph's gpu drivers are ****ed at the moment so no house calls for now, not that he's worth it.

"Abled" is the word you are looking forBlink

Low abled?
That sounds even worse! :D

Are you using an ati?

Disabled
Or
Of low ability

Much like my AMD card right now, working grand most of the time but there's something about my home station (where Ralph is) making it squirrelly.
Have an open bug report on it.
Solecist Project
#33 - 2016-08-23 22:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Disabled
Or
Of low ability

Much like my AMD card right now, working grand most of the time but there's something about my home station (where Ralph is) making it squirrelly.
Have an open bug report on it.

so a low abilitied person, no?
This really should be a thing!
It would make the english language so much easier to comprehend, especially for children!


I wish you luck on the bug report!
Maybe check if omega drivers exist nowadays, they might have that sorted out! :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#34 - 2016-08-24 00:08:23 UTC
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:
1)I don't know what to do...
2) ...do some google searching for a few hours for a "kind of" answer...
3)So I joined the militia. Great. Nothing is explained in the UI. Am I heading into an area of 50 million isk ships? Or is it the basic frigates? I don't know because nothing is explained. Ever.
4)At this point I'm about to say **** it. It's not worth the frustration.


1) Most people don't know what to do, in games or life. If you have any direction, keep it secret, since wrecking what you're trying to do is what instinctively replaces direction for directionless people. The zombie apocalypse is permanent and everywhere.
2) I regularly help people out with a few seconds searching Google for them. You need to search for hours? Nah.
3) Actually a common thing that people do looking for rails and fences.
4) You are not being frustrated, just defeated by the shapelessness of Freedom™, terrible, terrible Freedom™.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-08-24 00:14:39 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:

You are not being frustrated, just defeated by the shapelessness of Freedom™, terrible, terrible Freedom™.


ehi dude, this one is awesome Shocked
it's yours?

if not you have to pay the copyrights Shocked
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#36 - 2016-08-24 00:23:22 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:

You are not being frustrated, just defeated by the shapelessness of Freedom™, terrible, terrible Freedom™.


ehi dude, this one is awesome Shocked
it's yours?

if not you have to pay the copyrights Shocked

Yeah I'm stealing that one too.
Discordia Duenna
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2016-08-24 00:24:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Discordia Duenna
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:
I don't know what to do. This game answers no questions within the game itself. It does a **** poor job of explaining anything other than "I hope you figure it out". When you don't you're stuck with articles written back in 2007 with no idea if its content has remained viable.

Nothing is explained from the start. You have to ask everyone or do some google searching for a few hours for a "kind of" answer. If there was actually some kind of effort to graduate the learning curve it would be nice.

So I joined the militia. Great. Nothing is explained in the UI. Am I heading into an area of 50 million isk ships? Or is it the basic frigates? I don't know because nothing is explained. Ever.

If the developers of this game consider this game complex, I'd go to say that it's just convoluted in the attempt at complexity.

Ok, now that you know what you MAYBE want to do, you get **** blocked by the wall of boring chores you have to do before having any attempt at fun.

At this point I'm about to say **** it. It's not worth the frustration.


The game is too complex for you. Rise to the challenge or quit. I'd offer advice, but everyone else has already said what can be said.

"This book is not for you" - Book store keeper, The Neverending Story.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-08-24 00:47:32 UTC
Further to my previous post OP, stick with it.

Eve is a game where you can check in, but never leave.

If you quit in frustration now, it's going to eat in the back of your mind, even subconsciously, that you can't let it beat you.

In 1, 2, 3 or more years you'll be back; and then you'll be cursing not having all those years training under your belt already.

Big smile (more in jest than anything....kind of)

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2016-08-24 01:03:51 UTC
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:
I hate figuring things out for myself, and that's somehow everyone else's fault.


Literally what you sound like to me. There is a lot of information in this game that the helps people learn how to play it, and a lot more today than what I had, or others before me had. But here we are. We figured it out, and guess what, we're still figuring. If you're expecting the devs to provide step-by-step instructions on how to tie your shoelaces, then EVE is not for you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#40 - 2016-08-24 01:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
OP, FW is not a good place to start. I've been in and out of Min militia for a few years, and it's not a group. It's a revolving door of individuals who happen to sort of be doing the same thing. Actually they're kind of in competition with each other (get all of the LP from hanging on a timer solo, and not dividing it with another button humper). You'll get little or no help from FW guys-- at least Min FW guys. It's not a group of friends, it's mostly a collection of random strangers. It used to be different, but that's the current state, IMO.

If you want to skip PVE and go straight to PVP, RVB is good. People will try to help you out. They may not be experienced or pro, so it might be more like hanging out in a newbro discussions roundtable. But you'll get introduced to a lot of stuff quick, by ambitious guys who have a kind of a sportsman/athlete attitude.

(I was less ambitious as a new guy myself, I learned ships, mods, game mech, etc. through PVE first. Had a great time doing it too, and it wasn't a given. The Epic Arcs missions can put a boot on your arse. Was good stuff though. Learned to how to use long range vs. short range DPS, using drones, when it's time to bug out, etc. Fun as hell really, might do it again).

After you master using your ship's abilities to solo deal with AI and kick it's booty, PVP is much more fun. It's a different game, like chess compared ice hockey. But at least you know the ropes and the how to handle your equipment.

[P.S. Didn't fully read the posts above, got the gist of the discontent. "Redirect." "Pattern Interrupt." Amateur psych terms/methods to use freely, when there's a good cause or you need to divert some emotional DPS. They work!]