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Caldari Society - what are the most important areas of opinion?
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Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2016-08-18 01:23:02 UTC
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:

What is the State's position on gay marriage

As others have told you, it is heavily disfavored among the society, with varying degrees of gravity. On the periphery worlds, it depends much more on the circumstances and environment wherein one finds themselves. It is not uncommon to find communities within communities on the borderworld cities, especially when one begins leaving the safety of highsec space. On some Caldari owned planets, it's even possible to find entire towns where the owning Corporation is merely a small segment of the population.

Where a thoroughly xenophobic outlook may be sustainable when it comes to highsec worlds, lowsec planets tend to be a melting pot not of culture or race, but of interests. Dealing with regular outward threats tends to dull one's vision when you turn your gaze to your own community. Of course, the closer to Corporate holdings and enclaves, the tighter the restriction on non-Corporate endorsed tendencies becomes.

Cases often times come down to who you know and what your status is in society. While it may prove a weakness that can be exploited, the exploitation of that weakness leaves the aggressor in a vulnerable state as well, and I have heard of more than one case where such "outing" of individuals has had real and appreciable consequences to the aggressor.

Stations and space-born habitats are a different matter, and given the general danger when operating in space, there is not only much more security but much more adherence to the cultural enforcement of the owning Corporation.

All of that said, keeping one's private business private goes a long way towards being overlooked.

I would assume that would be used as a tool of blackmail
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2016-08-18 01:23:04 UTC
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:
What is the State's position on gay marriage


Let me be frank. I have attended crime scenes where a homosexual person or couple has been physically assaulted in an attempt to put a stop to 'this sort of thing'. We were required to document the crime, but no further investigative action was EVER taken. In some cases an incident number would not even be issued - which meant the assaulted person could not seek treatment for their injuries under their corporate health plan.

There IS no official position on Gay Marriage within The State. There IS a lot of prejudice.

I thought justice was supposed to be blind assault is assault no matter the victim or perpetrator.


I'm quoting this as an example of prejudice, I never claimed it was justice. Justice is quite rare through the Cluster, it seems - the best thing I can say about Caldari prejudice is that it's openly admitted to. Accuse us of bigotry, but never hypocrisy.

Could I have made a stand? Maybe - but fifteen year old me wasn't really secure enough to risk everything for a couple I didn't know and had been taught not to approve of.

Well I guess that is a main difference in our characters I would have made a stand even if I was taught to hate the victims I actually got in a similar situation when I saw a Caldari get assaulted and there were cameras recording the whole thing including me trying to help the Caldari and stop the attacker. I was told by the police that there was nothing they could do and if I pressed on I would likely be arrested by the Black Eagles but I still tried to help them I even got a petition to provide justice to the victims at a million signatures and eventually the perpetrator was prosecuted but on the day after the trial when I got home there was a group of black eagles who told me if I pulled anything like that they would kill me and the day I became a templar I left them a message telling them to go **** themselves.


Eh, this is the position of an individual from a society that values individualism with rabid fervour, I guess?

If a similar assault happened on a Matari who dared to profess faith in the Amarr religion or had an inauspicious Voluval mark in any Minmatar enclave, chances are there won't be any justice served. I am not going to even pretend that I will lift a finger to help since that is a very quick way to draw unwanted attention towards myself, my family and my Clan and get us branded as sympathizers.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2016-08-18 01:27:56 UTC
Well I was still a teenager back then but I still believe that justice should be served in those cases
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2016-08-18 02:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Well I was still a teenager back then but I still believe that justice should be served in those cases


I hear that justice do tend to get served in the Federation. At least until that whole Battle of Caldari Prime and that Tripwire debacle happened. Have you tried using the power of Galnet to rally people to your cause? Federation's pretty large and you could possibly get a very sizeable number of followers to show up and try to affect change.

Even more so when it's a capsuleer such as yourself making that call. Capsuleers are practically celebrities in the Federation (for good or ill) and have a lot of traction within the Federation over other places.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#85 - 2016-08-18 16:22:33 UTC
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Well I was still a teenager back then but I still believe that justice should be served in those cases


I don't disagree with you about what is Just and Good, but my personal story would have ended very differently if I'd taken a stand and it would have changed very little.

At the end of the day, those Citizens were trying to make a point when they flouted convention publicly - and that may or may not be admirable, but such a decision comes with consequences. It's not brave to put yourself in the way of the fist when you don't have a plan for taking the punch, it's stupid.

They didn't have such a plan and neither did I.

Note that I intervened in physical violence countless times during my career as security - but that was in the line of duty.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#86 - 2016-08-18 20:33:27 UTC
It seems to me that, in a cluster where most ways of living are followed somewhere, if someone is not inclined to the culture that they were raised in then there will likely be somewhere they can fit in.

Of course many do not have the resources to find a place to go or to get their even if they do. Happily as capsuleers we are well placed to help with that. Perhaps this might be a suitable charitable cause for the pilot class?

However. This is a digression from the main topic and possibly should be discussed in a thread of it's own if people are so inclined.

I would like to ask about the nature of the megas. A number of times I have heard them compared to the tribes. Would anyone from the State like to reflect on the similarities and differences of the two?

Also, I believe the concept of the corporation was introduced to Caldari culture by the Fed. What would you say the main differences are in the way the two societies operate them? As you understand it that is?

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#87 - 2016-08-18 21:09:49 UTC
I've always felt that they are rather similar at the basic level - in that they are a mono-culturally homogeneous group that forms its own political entity inside a collective of similar and equal groups that form an alliance against outside threats and cooperate on joint endeavours.

Unlike the Tribes, of course, they aren't racially homogeneous. Each Megacorporation contains similar concentrations of Civire and Deteis, for the most part. Most corporations also include a small minority of Achur with Suvee having a much larger population.

That said, I think the Megas are culturally much more similar than the Tribes are. We all came from the same place, worship the same spirits and ancestors and hold roughly the same beliefs. The differences might be stark for Caldari, but a non-Caldari will notice fewer differences.

The Corporation was introduced to us by the Federation, but I think we took the idea to it's logical extension. Federal Corporations are emasculated by Federal law in a way that Caldari Corporations never are. Caldari Corporations don't merely do business in a space that a National Government rents out to them - they own the resources, the workers, the facilties - all of it. Right down to the bedrock.

In the Federation the workers are Federal and National citizens first, workers second. The Corporation contracts for space, resources and facilities - but there is much less sense that they own them. There seems to be a distance between the corporation and the workers that feels very unnatural to me. How can the Corporation ever really care for it's workers under these circumstances? How can they do anything but scheme to get the maximum use out of things with the minimum responsibility?

It makes no sense to me.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#88 - 2016-08-21 23:02:21 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:
What is the State's position on gay marriage


Let me be frank. I have attended crime scenes where a homosexual person or couple has been physically assaulted in an attempt to put a stop to 'this sort of thing'. We were required to document the crime, but no further investigative action was EVER taken. In some cases an incident number would not even be issued - which meant the assaulted person could not seek treatment for their injuries under their corporate health plan.

There IS no official position on Gay Marriage within The State. There IS a lot of prejudice.

I thought justice was supposed to be blind assault is assault no matter the victim or perpetrator.


I'm quoting this as an example of prejudice, I never claimed it was justice. Justice is quite rare through the Cluster, it seems - the best thing I can say about Caldari prejudice is that it's openly admitted to. Accuse us of bigotry, but never hypocrisy.

Could I have made a stand? Maybe - but fifteen year old me wasn't really secure enough to risk everything for a couple I didn't know and had been taught not to approve of.

I haven't heard about such cases. IMHO even deviants deserve justice.

Also I have checked the laws, such sort of marriage is prohibited.

Of course, I am not expert in law 'delivering', except to guristas, whom we were 'clearing' while I served in the Navy. But I believe in this case the assaulters should still take punishment for their actions, just like if they would attack proper Caldari citizen, and victims... kicked out from the State, provided they survive. Punishment for all involved parties must be official, and savagery must not be tolerated.... from both sides, of unlawful attackers and deviant victims alike.

Maybe the justice is rare, but it is we, who shall insist on the Justice. Closing your eyes on this doesn't help it... if I were in your place, I would report it and would make a stand. How we can build ideal State and maintain ideal meritocracy if we can't even uphold the Law?..

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2016-08-21 23:06:20 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:
What is the State's position on gay marriage


Let me be frank. I have attended crime scenes where a homosexual person or couple has been physically assaulted in an attempt to put a stop to 'this sort of thing'. We were required to document the crime, but no further investigative action was EVER taken. In some cases an incident number would not even be issued - which meant the assaulted person could not seek treatment for their injuries under their corporate health plan.

There IS no official position on Gay Marriage within The State. There IS a lot of prejudice.

I thought justice was supposed to be blind assault is assault no matter the victim or perpetrator.


I'm quoting this as an example of prejudice, I never claimed it was justice. Justice is quite rare through the Cluster, it seems - the best thing I can say about Caldari prejudice is that it's openly admitted to. Accuse us of bigotry, but never hypocrisy.

Could I have made a stand? Maybe - but fifteen year old me wasn't really secure enough to risk everything for a couple I didn't know and had been taught not to approve of.

I haven't heard about such cases. IMHO even deviants deserve justice.

Also I have checked the laws, such sort of marriage is prohibited.

Of course, I am not expert in law 'delivering', except to guristas, whom we were 'clearing' while I served in the Navy. But I believe in this case the assaulters should still take punishment for their actions, just like if they would attack proper Caldari citizen, and victims... kicked out from the State, provided they survive. Punishment for all involved parties must be official, and savagery must not be tolerated.... from both sides, of unlawful attackers and deviant victims alike.

Maybe the justice is rare, but it is we, who shall insist on the Justice. Closing your eyes on this doesn't help it... if I were in your place, I would report it and would make a stand. How we can build ideal State and maintain ideal meritocracy if we can't even uphold the Law?..

See we're not so different after all
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#90 - 2016-08-23 21:31:42 UTC
Mhmmm. Not sure I'd advise fifteen year old me to throw his life away on the basis of your convictions, but I won't argue that you're morally wrong - just that you were never put into that position.

Of course it's all moot now. Perhaps it would have later led me into a life of toeing the company line no matter the cost and taking money under the table - but compared to the things all capsuleers do as a matter of course, this is petty and venal.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.