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High-sec "pvp" mechaics

Author
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-08-22 08:11:29 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
didnt they counter this stuff anyway with jump destroyers, just jump him out of logi range :)

Op said highsec.

Its a shame you cant even use those and then get concorded,
id spend all my time kidnaping angry russians off the amarr undock if i could.


jump destroyers dont work in highsec? i thought was kinda the point to them

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
#22 - 2016-08-22 12:16:20 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
didnt they counter this stuff anyway with jump destroyers, just jump him out of logi range :)

Op said highsec.

Its a shame you cant even use those and then get concorded,
id spend all my time kidnaping angry russians off the amarr undock if i could.


jump destroyers dont work in highsec? i thought was kinda the point to them


Micro jump field generator according to dev post cannot be activated in high security space

probably thats exacly to prevent what he said he would be doing all day....

and maybe to prevent idiots loosing their shiny command dessies by accidentally jumping people and coming whining to forum

so the real are for command dessies to shine is either low-sec small scale pvp or null-sec - although I'm not sure how dessies goes in nullsec warfare - surely they would do alot of mess if the survived long enought to scatter enemy logistic wings using those MJ field generators....
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#23 - 2016-08-23 11:13:18 UTC
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
didnt they counter this stuff anyway with jump destroyers, just jump him out of logi range :)

Op said highsec.

Its a shame you cant even use those and then get concorded,
id spend all my time kidnaping angry russians off the amarr undock if i could.


jump destroyers dont work in highsec? i thought was kinda the point to them


Micro jump field generator according to dev post cannot be activated in high security space

probably thats exacly to prevent what he said he would be doing all day....

and maybe to prevent idiots loosing their shiny command dessies by accidentally jumping people and coming whining to forum

so the real are for command dessies to shine is either low-sec small scale pvp or null-sec - although I'm not sure how dessies goes in nullsec warfare - surely they would do alot of mess if the survived long enought to scatter enemy logistic wings using those MJ field generators....

The stated reason I remember was they would make it to easy to screw with incursion logi ,
which I will readily admit was my second thought about it.
Ras Blumin
A Cross The Universe
#24 - 2016-08-23 11:57:45 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Solo pvp isnt really a thing in Eve. Even people who claim to solo dont solo as they use scouts, RRers, etc.

Not all of them.

High-sec PvP is ****. Don't bother.
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
#25 - 2016-08-24 12:57:20 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
didnt they counter this stuff anyway with jump destroyers, just jump him out of logi range :)

Op said highsec.

Its a shame you cant even use those and then get concorded,
id spend all my time kidnaping angry russians off the amarr undock if i could.


jump destroyers dont work in highsec? i thought was kinda the point to them


Micro jump field generator according to dev post cannot be activated in high security space

probably thats exacly to prevent what he said he would be doing all day....

and maybe to prevent idiots loosing their shiny command dessies by accidentally jumping people and coming whining to forum

so the real are for command dessies to shine is either low-sec small scale pvp or null-sec - although I'm not sure how dessies goes in nullsec warfare - surely they would do alot of mess if the survived long enought to scatter enemy logistic wings using those MJ field generators....

The stated reason I remember was they would make it to easy to screw with incursion logi ,
which I will readily admit was my second thought about it.


ah right incursions - totally forgot about it ^-^
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#26 - 2016-09-03 22:35:28 UTC
Tung Yoggi wrote:
Join RvB, I believe this is the closest thing to "fair and honorable" hi-sec pvp you will find.

Duelling people outside of Jita's 4-4 is pretty much like playing poker with crooks. You will eventually learn all the tricks, but you might lose a lot in the process.

LAWL. That is comedy gold right there. RvB being fair and honorable.

Thank you sir, I needed that laugh. Big smile
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#27 - 2016-09-03 22:39:47 UTC
Ras Blumin wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Solo pvp isnt really a thing in Eve. Even people who claim to solo dont solo as they use scouts, RRers, etc.

Not all of them.

High-sec PvP is ****. Don't bother.

I was a highsec solo PvPer since I did not use alts during wardecs but I do agree now. Don't bother since the watchlist killed it.

Like I said again, thanks CCP. *glares in the direction of Iceland*
Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
#28 - 2016-09-05 11:34:45 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Tung Yoggi wrote:
Join RvB, I believe this is the closest thing to "fair and honorable" hi-sec pvp you will find.

Duelling people outside of Jita's 4-4 is pretty much like playing poker with crooks. You will eventually learn all the tricks, but you might lose a lot in the process.

LAWL. That is comedy gold right there. RvB being fair and honorable.

Thank you sir, I needed that laugh. Big smile


You should read that sentence again, if you do it carefully, you might see that it has a very different meaning than the one you though it had.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#29 - 2016-09-06 19:40:34 UTC
Highsec is as full of carebears and idiots as any other place in Eve. It just has different rules. Most of the best pvpers in the game live and pvp in highsec. It's just as harsh (or even more harsh) to solo pvp in highsec as it is to solo pvp in low or null. This is excluding wormholes, which I know little about. But yeah, that's basically what I think about highsec.

Neutral logistics, off-grid boosters, high-grade implants and expensive faction bat-mobiles; all together these things can run billions of isk. It's around 2 bil for a high-grade set of slaves, I believe. But this is what a lot of the highsec warlords do. Sit in a billion ISK ship, with 2 billion ISK worth of implants in their clone, a half a billion ISK T3 somewhere in system, and at least one alt capable of flying a Logistics ship.

Of course you all already know all this. I'm just making some context or something.

Here's a little story.

Ragenmeister was the epitome of a highsec warlord. A member of Failed Diplomacy. He was terrorizing the folk of Amarr back in the day. He had links, expensive implants, faction fits, the whole shebang. And I was still noobish at the time, but learning rapidly. I started out using Punishers with lasers and a hybrid active-buffer armor tank. After a while I realized the Punisher was too slow, and that's when I started using the Executioner, which was my all time favourite ship for a long time. Then again I realized how powerful and cheap the Coercer was, so I started using that as well. I wasn't successful at first, but after learning the game more and changing my fits, my Coercer became capable of beating pretty much any frigate who dared enter range of its pulse lasers.

Long story short, Ragenmeister and I killed each other a fair few times. Well, actually, he killed me a fair few times. I was brave enough to fight just about anything in my Executioner, and he destroyed it easily with his Enyo (really, I could have beaten him in the Executioner if it was a normal Enyo fit, but I wasn't expecting that dual web monstrosity). In fact it seemed his Enyo was capable of destroying just about any ship I had.

So I decided to try the Coercer.

And Ragenmeister was setting himself up for a fall. Talking all kinds of trash and about how great he was and stuff. I was right in on the trash talking, so it was a giant circle jerk happening in Amarr at the time.

Anyway, Ragen undocks the Enyo while we have a duel going, and there I am, waiting, in the Coercer.

Kill: Ragenmeister: Enyo
Kill: Ragenmeister: Capsule

It was a really close fight. A true, straight up brawl, between, a 100 million ISK Assault Ship with T3 links and a full set of high-grade slaves - and a 20 million ISK Coercer Blood Raider's Edition - how poetic! - with no implants (probably the two super cheap turret implants - ss-901 and se-603 or whatever), no links, no nothing, just a Coercer, a true freestyle solo pvp boat.

The bounty paid out for the pod kill was over 500 million ISK. That was more ISK than I even HAD at the time.

And I was always celebrated thereafter as the Hero of Amarr :)

Ragenmeister was never the same. He became bitter, and soon left. Failed Diplomacy either kicker him out, or he left from shame. People who used to be my enemy (because of hilarious trash talking and competitive sportsmanship type stuff) suddenly seemed to be on my side. It no longer felt like it was me against Amarr; it felt like Amarr was mine, and I was there to defend it. I did that for a while, then got bored.

What's the point of all this? I don't know. I think highsec pvp is pretty good.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#30 - 2016-09-07 00:14:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
IDK you guys, hisec PvP sounds so complicated filled with drama and angst.

I play in nullsec and PvP there seems pretty straightforward to me. Here’s my approach to it all, supported with my few most recent KMs.

Obviously I see little merit in rushing around in mad circles jumping from system to system in search of gudfites, instead relying on ******** target folk coming to me to be killed. #LazyFailtard

It’s a hierarchy thing:

  1. Wait for defenceless ****** to come to me => kill defenceless ****** and take inspiration from the ensuing tears.
  2. Wait for light combat ship to come to me => kill light combat ship.
  3. Wait for intermediate combat ship to come to me => kill intermediate combat ship.
  4. Wait for heavy combat ship to come to me => kill heavy combat ship .
  5. Do things badly => get killed. My killer here was very heavily T3 boosted. I knew that but wanted to try for him without my falcon ‘force multiplier’ anyway. He shredded me … good on him.

Sometimes there are surprises, where an expected tough target turns out to be an unexpected pushover, but generally I serve Darwin and try to just bring enough to the fight to be likely to win it (notwithstanding my bad-at-eve mess-ups).

My ‘solo’ involves several combat ships and several scouts. I have used but don’t currently use a booster alt though – too many windows and too slow computers / internet.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
#31 - 2016-09-07 12:48:16 UTC
Quote:
Most of the best pvpers in the game live and pvp in highsec


#dicksoutfornightmarex
Keno Kane
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2016-09-11 14:54:32 UTC
I've been playing the game for a full week now on my full subscription.
A game that lets you pretty much do what you want, good or bad, is what attracted me to it.

What might seem like **** moves by some people, are just learning stuff for me. I message and ask how they do this or that, helps me learn the game better and what to watch out for. If I get killed, I get killed. Not the end of my world. And honestly, one day I can try **** moves and help some newbro out. Pay if forward.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#33 - 2016-09-17 19:19:06 UTC
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
ah right incursions - totally forgot about it ^-^

For some odd reason highsec incursion runners seem to be some kind of sacred cow to CCP. It's surprising the amount of consideration has been given to them when it comes to the design of highsec specific game mechanics even though the constitute 1% of the player base and are an absolutely massive isk faucet.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#34 - 2016-09-17 22:45:40 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
ah right incursions - totally forgot about it ^-^

For some odd reason highsec incursion runners seem to be some kind of sacred cow to CCP. It's surprising the amount of consideration has been given to them when it comes to the design of highsec specific game mechanics even though the constitute 1% of the player base and are an absolutely massive isk faucet.

Incursions are half a step above mining. I guess it would be good to go from incursions to nullsec pvp fleet blobs since both of them require someone to tell you to press F1.

Not my cup of tea.
Radius Suidar
KardiCorp
#35 - 2016-09-24 04:34:08 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Why do you want ccp to do anything about that when you can already do something about each of those scenarios?

Just need a little situational awareness.

You are not entitled to a fair fight. You must engineeer the fight to be fair, in your favor.


I have nothing to add other than I like this response.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#36 - 2016-09-28 11:50:11 UTC
The only somewhat "fair" fights I have heard of are Red vs Blue and Fraction War.

Guess if two highsec cooperations of the same size would wardec without allies this could be kind of fair too.

Bit like like historic duels for honor: You see that another corp ruins the prices and you write the CEO a mail:
"This ends here, tomorrow morning, your guys against my guys, no one else, one engagement, loser will reject from the market. "Our champion against your champion., winner takes it all."

It's a sandbox game, we don't NEED CCP for tournament style PVP, just think about how you could make your own higsec gladiator games.
CPT Bridgehouse
TheAuthority
Pigships
#37 - 2016-09-28 18:34:28 UTC
I live for HS pvp and will always prefer HS pvp over null and low. Op talks about unfair , yet when I lived in low and WH space we where consistntanly out numbered , out gunned and outshipped. Hotdropepd by caps and way too much logi to count.

I have alts and lots of them , I advise get some . Like others have said adapt or die, I have done it all in HS i have studied9, watched others (ragemiester) and I learned by trial and error. I know most if not all of HS mechanic's and exploits. And if I can tilt any engagement in my favour I will.


CCP don't need to fix anything , you need to adjust or keep getting same results as you have been getting. Personly I find HS pvp to be more enaging as you never know who or what to expect.


Always asses every situation asses every possible outcome and always expect the unexpected. In all my engagements I'm always expecting the worst and if that's a massive logi fleet then so be it.
Valkin Mordirc
#38 - 2016-10-03 09:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Ares Desideratus wrote:


Ragenmeister was the epitome of a highsec warlord. A member of Failed Diplomacy. He was terrorizing the folk of Amarr back in the day. He had links, expensive implants, faction fits, the whole shebang.




I'm not saying anything else about your post other then this part.


But Regenmeister is **** pilot and a *****, who couldn't fit his way out of a paper bag. He literally relies completely on Blaster DPS and tank and hopes that he can win. That's all he can do.


EDIT:


As for Highsec PVP. It's stale. It needs to be changed. Not for the defenseless noob, but because all the tricks and tips are known. Everybody knows how to avoid a wardec, what to shoot and what not to shoot.


The other day, I saw a TFI suspect in Ashab, (Actually its the poster above me lol) and he had an alt shooting at him in a mega. I was bored so I said ****. Ran off grabbed a Mach, and poked at him with it. However I was versed enough in Highsec Mechanics know that he probably was going to switch off to another ship and kept range so that I was able to disengage.


And guess. What he switched to Bhaalgorn, (Minor scare that it was a Bhal, was kinda hoping for a Vindicator) tossed some webs and neuts on me. But I just pulled range, Even a Bhal can't neut out a Mach quickly enough to shut off it's cap boosted MWD. And he was buffer fit, so I was literally going twice as fast he could go and even webbed I was able to pull range. He couldn't catch me, and I couldn't sit in my range unless I wanted to be neuted out and webbed down. He also had logi on stand-by, I figured he did anyways, never actually checked. The fact that he was buffer was enough for me to assume that he did though.

Nothing else happened. Why? Because I already knew that this dude probably was going to switch. So did everybody else who passed through Ashab. The people you get by baiting or deccing are idoits.

No else bothers. Because it's stale and boring.
#DeleteTheWeak
O'nira
Litla Sundlaugin
#39 - 2016-10-04 15:09:37 UTC
i'm guessing the amount of work required to change hs pvp mechanics for the better are to much work for too little reward in the eyes of ccp
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#40 - 2016-10-04 15:32:25 UTC
When is CCP going to stop letting other players do things I don't like? What?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

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