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Should CCP Change Subscription To F2P Or P2W

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Exandor Enthrapas
Concelium Septum
#101 - 2016-08-22 04:48:42 UTC
When World of Warcraft first came up with charging you monthly to be able to play on I decided instantly to not ever do this this, because it felt ridiculous to me to pay for a game like for my rent or the energy in my home, becuase any game is just such not a fundamentally indispensible and essential thing like real life a home or energy and warm water.

I didn't ever play only one of the upcoming MMO's that followed WoW for that reason until 2016, but the more time passed the more games were only available that way going really ridiculous about thing worth merely a view, like CS:GO weapon skins sold for 80$ or TF2 backpacks sold for 2000$...

This habit went really annoying, with games releasing "Downloadable Content" / DLC... some mere add-ons with sometimes just some visual skins in like full-blown titles....

In the end I was bent to be doing this by all the major game series applying this scheme like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Counter Strike etc so I sometimes started doing it too...

But that is the No.1 reason I stop playing games, because sometimes I'm just not playing a game for several months and dont want to pay for it every months while not even using it ...

As to the ridiculous ammounts it's the same.. I could probably spemnd 10000$ USD only on EVE to unlock all of the games features to me and having a decent set of ships ready ....

I liked the option in EVE that allows you to earn the ISK ingame, though it's a factor heavily abused by scammer and the general market, putting you under pressure with extreme values on items like PLEX, Skill Injectors etc... It was the point why I was was trying out EVE and bought several PLEX with rl cash to proceed quicker... still earning the ISK ingame is really really hard to me...
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#102 - 2016-08-22 16:43:47 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Caco De'mon wrote:
Kalpel wrote:
I believe that if you cannot afford the cost of a subscription than internet gaming is the least of your problems!


I agree with your statement and all the other variations mentioned in this thread...

That being said, I think most of you are missing this point of WHY this is thread (and others) was created in the first place. Of course we need new PAYING players coming to EVE, the REAL reason is that attracting those people is what seems to be an issue. If you look at the trend of the last 5 years, the number of people playing is declining at a rate that may mean the death of EVE. From early 2013 to now, it appears half of the player-base have disappeared fro whatever reason(s) and if that trend continues, there can only be one outcome.

So really, while F2P, P2W or some variation (my suggestion, other suggestions, etc) may seem unpalatable to you, is not having EVE just to avoid F2P pitfalls an option you'd actual rather?

Seems to be a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face....



Ah yes, the good old "CCP you better give me what I want or your game will die" argument.


Well I have also seen the numbers decline from 30k+ to 20+ on some days and I have seen the numbers decline as low as 12+K so what is CCP doing wrong can someone answer that question ?

That is why may by its time for CCP to change its system to get more people into this game.

That is why I have thought that either F2P and P2W would be a better way for that.

And what allot of you should know is FREE TO PLAY means you can play the game for free but if you want to get better ingame items you are paying for that privilege.

PAY TO WIN has been tried in EvE quite a number of years back but allot of people were against it when CCP was going to introduce gold ammo for AURUM. But the people spoke by going out to Burn Jita and CCP had to get rid of it.

It is a concern for all of the EvE players and it does not matter if you are friend or foe but to keep in mind that this a Great Game which I have played for nearly 10 Years and I still have a heart for EvE.

Thank You All

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#103 - 2016-08-22 16:49:07 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Kei Nagasai wrote:
How about just cutting the cost of the subscription?
at the moment its £10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts.
I'd say cut it down to £6 or £7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount"


you mean like when i look at 15 euros and say meh it's only 15 euro.




But allot of poor people in the world who cannot afford the subs.

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2016-08-22 17:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
45thtiger 0109 wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Kei Nagasai wrote:
How about just cutting the cost of the subscription?
at the moment its £10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts.
I'd say cut it down to £6 or £7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount"


you mean like when i look at 15 euros and say meh it's only 15 euro.




But allot of poor people in the world who cannot afford the subs.


If they're so poor they can't afford 50c a day, then they have bigger problems than online gaming. This 'people are too poor' nonsense is not an argument. I'm too poor to buy a Ferrari but you don't see me demanding one for free, do you? People need to stop this completely ridiculous bullshit where everyone has to cater to their misfortune. We don't, CCP don't, no one does.

Being too poor to afford something means you can't have it, not that whoever made that something needs to hand it to you just because "boo hoo, I have no money".

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2016-08-22 17:36:22 UTC
45thtiger 0109 wrote:

And what allot of you should know is FREE TO PLAY means you can play the game for free but if you want to get better ingame items you are paying for that privilege.


All the things EVE is not. EVE's economy is player-driven. Everything in the game is made (or looted) by players. You don't just magic stuff into the game because someone paid for it, it doesn't work. That would break EVE at its most core mechanic.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Solecist Project
#106 - 2016-08-22 17:37:04 UTC
45thtiger 0109 wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Kei Nagasai wrote:
How about just cutting the cost of the subscription?
at the moment its £10, which, to be frank, is a bit on the expensive side, once you factor in alts.
I'd say cut it down to £6 or £7, the lower it is the more likely people are going to say, "meh, its only X amount"


you mean like when i look at 15 euros and say meh it's only 15 euro.




But allot of poor people in the world who cannot afford the subs.

Yeah, so they are.
So what? Where's the argument?
Ever considered that there's reasons why they're poor?

Not everyone who is poor is poor because his life is **** ...
... and those who have a ****** life have completely different priorities than playing EVE ONLINE.

Making the game cheaper won't attract any quality players ...
... it will only attract those who are poor by choice.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2016-08-22 18:29:58 UTC
No, it's just entitlement. The whole world is getting outraged right now because people won't give them free stuff and cave to their demands, and it's not just in gaming. Now don't get me wrong, if someone is in genuine trouble and their circumstances have become a barrier to basic survival, I think we should help. We don't owe them, but we should help. But video games are not a ******* component of basic survival. I spent a good year of my life homeless and worked my ******* arse off with neigh a handout to speak of to get myself off the street, into university and a half-decent communications degree, and into a half-decent freelance journalism gig. And then I see people whining about video games being too expensive, and I really just wanna shove a foot in their backside, boot and all. Reality check kids: the world, and life, does not part like the red sea to let you through.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2016-08-22 18:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Looblaloobla Timmay
Remiel Pollard wrote:
No, it's just entitlement. The whole world is getting outraged right now because people won't give them free stuff and cave to their demands, and it's not just in gaming. Now don't get me wrong, if someone is in genuine trouble and their circumstances have become a barrier to basic survival, I think we should help. We don't owe them, but we should help. But video games are not a ******* component of basic survival. I spent a good year of my life homeless and worked my ******* arse off with neigh a handout to speak of to get myself off the street, into university and a half-decent communications degree, and into a half-decent freelance journalism gig. And then I see people whining about video games being too expensive, and I really just wanna shove a foot in their backside, boot and all. Reality check kids: the world, and life, does not part like the red sea to let you through.


You guys seem to be confusing "entitlement" with industry standard. The industry standard, has changed since the 80's. Just because it was more expensive to play a game back then, doesn't mean that prices should remain that way. With that same logic, all personal computers should still be in the tens of thousands. When I say tens of thousands I mean plural, because they really were that expensive. I'm sorry that you nerds used to walk in the snow both ways after shoveling someone's carport to earn your right to play an arcade game, but just because you did, and other people didn't, doesn't mean they are entitled. In fact it feels like you are the one entitled here, since you want everyone else to feel what your misery once was.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#109 - 2016-08-22 19:00:26 UTC
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#110 - 2016-08-22 19:12:50 UTC
Just so you guys know, you can farm gold in WoW and play for 'free' in the same way EVE does Plex. Who knows, Blizzard might have stole that one from EVE but maybe they both got if from someplace else.

In any event, to answer the questions posed in the thread title:

No and No.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2016-08-22 19:26:04 UTC
If you ask me, I agree that we not go F2P or P2W. However I do feel like the pricing is too expensive for what you get. I personally feel like the pricing should go similar to this: $10 a month for a regular account. $15 a month to have two characters from one account in game at the same time. $20 two characters that can skill train, AND be in game at the same time. This might affect skill injectors to some degree, but you will still have that 3rd character on your account that cannot train skills if two are currently training in something. If you think about it anyway the cost per month is similar to this anyways, that is if you buy your subscription time in bulk.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#112 - 2016-08-22 19:28:57 UTC
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
If you ask me, I agree that we not go F2P or P2W. However I do feel like the pricing is too expensive for what you get. I personally feel like the pricing should go similar to this: $10 a month for a regular account. $15 a month to have two characters from one account in game at the same time. $20 two characters that can skill train, AND be in game at the same time. This might affect skill injectors to some degree, but you will still have that 3rd character on your account that cannot train skills if two are currently training in something. If you think about it anyway the cost per month is similar to this anyways, that is if you buy your subscription time in bulk.


You can subscribe for a year at about $10-$11 US a month if you pay up front.

Subscribe

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2016-08-22 19:37:16 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
If you ask me, I agree that we not go F2P or P2W. However I do feel like the pricing is too expensive for what you get. I personally feel like the pricing should go similar to this: $10 a month for a regular account. $15 a month to have two characters from one account in game at the same time. $20 two characters that can skill train, AND be in game at the same time. This might affect skill injectors to some degree, but you will still have that 3rd character on your account that cannot train skills if two are currently training in something. If you think about it anyway the cost per month is similar to this anyways, that is if you buy your subscription time in bulk.


You can subscribe for a year at about $10-$11 US a month if you pay up front.

Subscribe


I know, but I still would like to have just one account to do what I need, versus two. :P
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#114 - 2016-08-22 20:46:47 UTC
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
I know, but I still would like to have just one account to do what I need, versus two. :P
Then you need to use one or both accounts to get enough ISK per month to pay for your PLEX. The PLEXers are serious folks and once they get their Empires built up they PLEX in a day or so.

I'd work on getting good enough to PLEX any time you want to and just go that route.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2016-08-22 21:36:44 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
I know, but I still would like to have just one account to do what I need, versus two. :P
Then you need to use one or both accounts to get enough ISK per month to pay for your PLEX. The PLEXers are serious folks and once they get their Empires built up they PLEX in a day or so.

I'd work on getting good enough to PLEX any time you want to and just go that route.


This has nothing to do with plex. This has everything to do with the fact that I don't think the value of the game is worth maintaining two accounts. I have a job, with limited time, so when I do play, I'm not going to worry so much about making the isk needed to pay for a plex either, because in reality, that's where most of my isk will go. :P I already stated what would cause me to go back to paying $20 a month for Eve. I want to see two mains that can log in at the same time, and train at the same time. Anything less, to me, is not worth it right now.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#116 - 2016-08-22 22:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
@Looblaloobla Timmay

If I was you, I'd get off the subject of a nasty little man with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and what he believed in, before the ISD team force you to.

Up until recently Eve has always been a little bit exclusive, the UI, the game concepts, the complexity, the shenanigans and the reputation of the game put off the more easily satisfied gamers who were content with WoW, WoW clones, MOBAs etc.

CCP appear to have changed their strategy and are apparently trying to pull new customers in from existing games, some of those strategy changes have been for the good, some not so much.

Much of the resistance to proposals like the OPs, including my own, comes down to the fact that a lot of us have been playing for many years, some in excess of a decade. We have years invested in CCP and Eve and are loathe to see them changing the game in drastic ways in order to increase revenue in the short term. They also appear to be considering dumbing down our game (their words, not ours) to pander to the demands of people who often have little time invested, a move that may well end up with Eve being a shadow of its former self and CCP being another dev company that made something good once, and then screwed up by being greedy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Looblaloobla Timmay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2016-08-22 23:01:29 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
@Looblaloobla Timmay

If I was you, I'd get off the subject of a nasty little man with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and what he believed in, before the ISD team force you to.

Up until recently Eve has always been a little bit exclusive, the UI, the game concepts, the complexity, the shenanigans and the reputation of the game put off the more easily satisfied gamers who were content with WoW, WoW clones, MOBAs etc.

CCP appear to have changed their strategy and are apparently trying to pull new customers in from existing games, some of those strategy changes have been for the good, some not so much.

Much of the resistance to proposals like the OPs, including my own, comes down to the fact that a lot of us have been playing for many years, some in excess of a decade. We have years invested in CCP and Eve and are loathe to see them changing the game in drastic ways in order to increase revenue in the short term. They also appear to be considering dumbing down our game (their words not ours) to pander to the demands of people who often have little time invested, a move that may well end up with Eve being a shadow of its former self and CCP being another dev company that made something good once, and then screwed up by being greedy.


I agree, and it is a concern sure. However I'm tired of the Holier than thou mentality that most of these head cases exhibit in any kind of serious topic. I makes me wonder if most of them are the DIRECT CAUSE to why we are having to have these discussions in the first place.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#118 - 2016-08-22 23:14:07 UTC
looblaloobla, you make me wish to violate the forum rules against personal insults. That is hard to do...congrats, I guess...


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Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#119 - 2016-08-23 01:49:31 UTC
45thtiger 0109 wrote:
Hey EvE Players

A thought came to mind about subs, Free To Play or Pay To Win.

I know of people outside of EvE in real life that will not play EvE because of Subscription as they cannot afford the cost.

I am asking the EvE Community of your thoughts should EvE continue to do Subscription.

1. Continue paying Subscription or do the grind for isk in game to pay for your characters.

2. Free To Play and those players could only use T1 mods and ships and if they want better items from the market like T2 or T3 Items or ships & Capital Ships they would use Aurium instead of ISK.

3 And this one was knocked back quite a few years ago was Pay To Win.

CCP its time to make EvE online allot better and to get more people motavated to play EvE and get rid of the Subscription base and have a look at the MMO's out there and allot of them are Free To Play.

One Game I also play is Warframe and they are Free To Play and you buy platinum if you want better Items from the market.

I just want people thoughts if CCP should change from Subscription to F2P or P2W.

Thank You


F2P and P2W are more suited to games like WOT where there is no sandbox. The problem with these models is they ignore one of the biggest gamification mechanic which is "loss". In good games the sense of loss is something that keeps you engaged. This is something that Eve used to be very good at because there used to be a point in the game where 85% of people grinded to pvp and it was a struggle for isk. The notion here was "lets give people more opportunity to make isk so they can pvp (if that's your end game)", in reality it made the feeling of loss diminish and hence why some have chosen to play other games.

Now I'm not saying lets abandon incursions, moon mining, ratting, missioning etc because these are good examples of resource collecting which is another gamification mechanism. What I am saying is really look at this from 30k feet up in the air and you will realize there are already F2P and P2W mechanisms in Eve which, in my opinion, are at a suitable level and should not be changed because it will ruin the fabric of what Eve is built on.
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#120 - 2016-08-23 02:20:17 UTC
Looblaloobla Timmay wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
@Looblaloobla Timmay

If I was you, I'd get off the subject of a nasty little man with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and what he believed in, before the ISD team force you to.

Up until recently Eve has always been a little bit exclusive, the UI, the game concepts, the complexity, the shenanigans and the reputation of the game put off the more easily satisfied gamers who were content with WoW, WoW clones, MOBAs etc.

CCP appear to have changed their strategy and are apparently trying to pull new customers in from existing games, some of those strategy changes have been for the good, some not so much.

Much of the resistance to proposals like the OPs, including my own, comes down to the fact that a lot of us have been playing for many years, some in excess of a decade. We have years invested in CCP and Eve and are loathe to see them changing the game in drastic ways in order to increase revenue in the short term. They also appear to be considering dumbing down our game (their words not ours) to pander to the demands of people who often have little time invested, a move that may well end up with Eve being a shadow of its former self and CCP being another dev company that made something good once, and then screwed up by being greedy.


I agree, and it is a concern sure. However I'm tired of the Holier than thou mentality that most of these head cases exhibit in any kind of serious topic. I makes me wonder if most of them are the DIRECT CAUSE to why we are having to have these discussions in the first place.


Personally I don' t agree with this at all. If you look at what they have done for the last 18 months CCP have really tried to change things up to encourage more activity. All you have to do is look into the next 6months pipeline to realise this is what they are trying to do. The issue is at the moment people are still hurt over command automisation ban, jump fatigue and Aegis.

Command automisation killed the fleets of many alts controlled by one person, jump fatigued stopped the cancer blob alliances jumping half way across the map and Aegis actually means you have to live in your space and defend it if it comes liable.

So really i disagree they are dulling the game down to let people, who invest very little in the game, become a focus customer.

There are other things I want CCP to change because i think they have gone to far and cause terrible game play however I have a feeling my desires are skewed more to the solo/small gang player. That said there is plenty of research out there that tells you people don't want to be an F1 monkey and require specific roles and to perform certain tasks within a gamified experience, the problem relating this to Eve is the mechanics require everyman and his dog to get anywhere in the game. Example a logi ship is the equivalent of +5 DPS ships, so to defeat a small gang, logi is a pre-requisite which is another barrier to good game play.

However, enough of my moaning, the strategy is and always will be to engage loyal customers. This is the cheapest way to make a profit.