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Crosspost from Reddit: Why are the Eve Forums so Horrible?

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#21 - 2016-08-22 05:54:53 UTC
Generally when I look at Reddit I also check out the down voted posts for people whose opinion is against the herd. It seems to me that Reddit can be an echo chamber at times. Eve forums are trolled heavily, but I can say that the current ISD are far superior to what went on before, before I would have my posts heavily moderated and anything snappy taken out and the ganker shrills would get a free pass, I noticed it happening any time I said anything against Jenn a'Snide for example (could have been that egotistical thin skinned idiot reporting everything though), but now the ISD let me give back what that idiot dishes out.

I have to say that the ISD is at the moment the most balanced I have seen since I started posting on the forums and they have my respect for it.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Yarosara Ruil
#22 - 2016-08-22 06:47:54 UTC
Reddit does have an infinite supply of dank memes, that the EVE Forums just can't match up.
Viktor Amarr
#23 - 2016-08-22 07:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Amarr
Frankly, this whole thing about "waaah, too much moderation" is nonsense. The rules we have here aren't severe or unrealistic at all nor is the moderation too much or inconsistent. If one can't stay within the reasonable constraints of those rules we have then that's a problem of the poster, not the forum. So people who want less moderation simply want to make more **** posts, probably because they're used to a "shitpost away" forum or one with different etiquette (like having the question in the subject line with a "discuss" as actual post, that dumb **** doesn't fly here).


The real reasons are far more obvious:

- this forum software is terrible
- Reddit works better on phones
- Reddit doesn't require an active EVE account
- it's easier to circlejerk on Reddit due to the upvote/downvote system, creating a false sense of moderation
- obvious shitposts stay at the top longer on this forum and should be given a "get back on track or get locked" way more often (yes, I'm stating we need more moderation, it's a form of downvoting that isn't a circlejerk thing)


Doesn't mean CCP should go ahead and replace this forum with the one they showed us a while back, it's far worse than what we have right now with the only upside that it works on phones. It's not good enough.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2016-08-22 08:01:21 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Generally when I look at Reddit I also check out the down voted posts for people whose opinion is against the herd.

Well, while it may be an issue, I just treat it with "well then, thanks for sorting the thread for me".

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#25 - 2016-08-22 08:19:15 UTC
We need harsher moderation in here.

The amount of threads getting derailed by others all the time is a pain in the arse.

I mean the obvious trolls who come in simply because what's being discussed doesn't fit in with their warped view of what EVE should be, or how it should be played, the ones who's own rigidity allows no other views apart from their own. It's happening in virtually every thread now and gets ignored by ISD until they decide to lock it rather than addressing the individuals constantly causing it.

I use a couple of other forums for other games, any crap like this gets instantly sorted out on there by the forum mods, it's simply not allowed to grow into threadnaughts of bickering caused by a handful of players whose sole purpose in life seems to be to troll, constantly.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-08-22 09:01:49 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Generally when I look at Reddit I also check out the down voted posts for people whose opinion is against the herd.

I do that too, but it isn't quite that simple.

In order to both confuse bots early (so someone can't write a bot to have their own threads and comments massively upvoted) and to make sure there is a constant turnover of threads, reddit's voting algorithm smudges the values.

There is a good article on both thread and comment voting, here:

https://medium.com/hacking-and-gonzo/how-reddit-ranking-algorithms-work-ef111e33d0d9#.4m0ilvuty

(and the link internally to a post by the author of the voting algorithm is a good read too).

That means, the numbers aren't true numbers, so especially early on in a thread, scores might not be a good indicator, particularly because of the next secnetence.

r/eve votes are significantly affected by the flare selected. For example posts from Goons are often heavily downvoted, while former MBC Alliances are heavily upvoted, even if they post essentially the same comment.

I still always look down the bottom of threads, but the reliability of r/eve voting scores is never certain.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Solecist Project
#27 - 2016-08-22 09:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Early karma points are now hidden, didn't you notice? For an hour? Can't tell for sure.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#28 - 2016-08-22 09:15:18 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Early karma points are now hidden, didn't you notice? For an hour? Can't tell for sure.

Yes that is also a practice to help prevent block voting.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Solecist Project
#29 - 2016-08-22 09:20:03 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
We need harsher moderation in here.

The amount of threads getting derailed by others all the time is a pain in the arse.

I mean the obvious trolls who come in simply because what's being discussed doesn't fit in with their warped view of what EVE should be, or how it should be played, the ones who's own rigidity allows no other views apart from their own. It's happening in virtually every thread now and gets ignored by ISD until they decide to lock it rather than addressing the individuals constantly causing it.

I use a couple of other forums for other games, any crap like this gets instantly sorted out on there by the forum mods, it's simply not allowed to grow into threadnaughts of bickering caused by a handful of players whose sole purpose in life seems to be to troll, constantly.

Well... yes... i don't disagree per se.

Such a rule would be of no use, though, because of many ... low abilitied ... who would then report others just for disagreeing.
My personal wish would be moderation of intentional spreading of vitriol ...
... and moderation of people who continuously attempt to derail, no matter how.

Except jokes and such, ofc. But Veers Belvar - what's his new name - would be screwed.
Though maybe C&P likes their pet, I dunno...

I really dislike all the useless back and forth pinging about details, too.
It completely stalls progress.
People waste pages over pages needing to correct people who say wrong things ...
... as if anyone learned anything from it ...
... instead of interested ones just kesping the conversation going.

Like, baltec's idea here in GD seems to be an interesting approach ...
... but it's completely useless lost in the lighting rod.

Meh ... vOv

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#30 - 2016-08-22 09:32:19 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
We need harsher moderation in here.

The amount of threads getting derailed by others all the time is a pain in the arse.

I mean the obvious trolls who come in simply because what's being discussed doesn't fit in with their warped view of what EVE should be, or how it should be played, the ones who's own rigidity allows no other views apart from their own. It's happening in virtually every thread now and gets ignored by ISD until they decide to lock it rather than addressing the individuals constantly causing it.

I use a couple of other forums for other games, any crap like this gets instantly sorted out on there by the forum mods, it's simply not allowed to grow into threadnaughts of bickering caused by a handful of players whose sole purpose in life seems to be to troll, constantly.

Well... yes... i don't disagree per se.

Such a rule would be of no use, though, because of many ... low abilitied ... who would then report others just for disagreeing.
My personal wish would be moderation of intentional spreading of vitriol ...
... and moderation of people who continuously attempt to derail, no matter how.

Except jokes and such, ofc. But Veers Belvar - what's his new name - would be screwed.
Though maybe C&P likes their pet, I dunno...

I really dislike all the useless back and forth pinging about details, too.
It completely stalls progress.
People waste pages over pages needing to correct people who say wrong things ...
... as if anyone learned anything from it ...
... instead of interested ones just kesping the conversation going.

Like, baltec's idea here in GD seems to be an interesting approach ...
... but it's completely useless lost in the lighting rod.

Meh ... vOv



Agreed.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#31 - 2016-08-22 09:35:28 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:


I really dislike all the useless back and forth pinging about details, too.
It completely stalls progress.
People waste pages over pages needing to correct people who say wrong things ...
... as if anyone learned anything from it ...
... instead of interested ones just kesping the conversation going.



Too many threads like that. They start off interesting only to devolve into arguing about minutiae.
Hard to find the signal among all the noise.

There are times when I'd like to read these forums on my phone, but the formatting works against easy reading.
Solecist Project
#32 - 2016-08-22 09:47:36 UTC
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


I really dislike all the useless back and forth pinging about details, too.
It completely stalls progress.
People waste pages over pages needing to correct people who say wrong things ...
... as if anyone learned anything from it ...
... instead of interested ones just kesping the conversation going.



Too many threads like that. They start off interesting only to devolve into arguing about minutiae.
Hard to find the signal among all the noise.

There are times when I'd like to read these forums on my phone, but the formatting works against easy reading.

Hi!

On my android I read on landscape mode. I think that works well.
I use Chrome, but I should be switching over to something else.
I wonder what your issue is, because I think it's fine.

In case you need a good keyboard, let me suggest "Hacker's Keyboard" free from the playstore.
It's superior in literally every single way possible and one can even spawn it where the default won't come up.


Thank you, you two, for your posts. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2016-08-22 09:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


I really dislike all the useless back and forth pinging about details, too.
It completely stalls progress.
People waste pages over pages needing to correct people who say wrong things ...
... as if anyone learned anything from it ...
... instead of interested ones just kesping the conversation going.



Too many threads like that. They start off interesting only to devolve into arguing about minutiae.
Hard to find the signal among all the noise.

There are times when I'd like to read these forums on my phone, but the formatting works against easy reading.




Product of what Eve is really. Nearly every problem one encounters in the game can be solved so many different ways. As a result, people have different experiences when dealing with the same problem, different perspectives of why it works and doesn't work, so when it comes to discussing ideas you still have 6 different people who have all overcome the same obstacle 6 different ways, so naturally they think this way is better than that way, or they feel that this attribute is more important than that one. Often times there is merit to what both parties are saying, but trying to get people to discuss 'the problem' and not 'my way of fixing it is better because of this reason' is nigh impossible.


EDIT: Gah that's a run on sentence and a half..... ignore my bad typing....

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Dibz
Doomheim
#34 - 2016-08-22 10:34:16 UTC
Ironically enough, the forum rules prevent me from saying why the forums are worse than reddit. Neat little clause that, at least from the ISD's point of view Blink
pajedas
Doomheim
#35 - 2016-08-22 11:23:15 UTC
ISD Buldath wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
I give it a resounding "Meh". I simply moderate.

You should go and "lock" the the thread for discussion of moderation.



Nah, WE shouldn't.

I'm curious to see how things will go.

Many Things That we, as ISD's Do is shrouded in secrecy. The whole program is almost never talked about in an official capacity and very few people know how we operate or what or why we do things as we have.

All members spend weeks with Veteran ISD members in coaching and training to properly moderate there given field. And even before this, All members are carefully vetted and Interviewed before they are even given the option of coming on the team.

I have personally spent many months training to work the help channels under senior guidance before I was finally allowed to be on my own. Or "Unleashed" as its referred too internally.

ISD, As an entity, is a vast program that works almost 100% behind the scenes. Rarely do people ever come in contact with us but we are still there, doing our due diligence silently under the hood. Because of this lack of Publicity many players see us only for the actions taken upon them, and in many cases this is because of Several heavy rule violations.

This isn't much in response to the outcrys of poor moderation or terrible policy's, but hopefully as time progresses ISD can be seen in a more positive light as we grow into a more transparent entity.


You've locked many threads for far less.

So, it's all about "you're opinion".

Fail.

🐇
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#36 - 2016-08-22 11:29:08 UTC
pajedas wrote:
You've locked many threads for far less.

So, it's all about "you're opinion".

Fail.
It's your opinion, not you're opinion; you're being the contraction of you are.

Before you start shouting fail you should make sure that what you post doesn't display any failures.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
pajedas
Doomheim
#37 - 2016-08-22 11:33:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
pajedas wrote:
You've locked many threads for far less.

So, it's all about "you're opinion".

Fail.
It's your opinion, not you're opinion; you're being the contraction of you are.

Before you start shouting fail you should make sure that what you post doesn't display any failures.

sPeling isnnt my highust priorritty.

Butt thanx!

🐇
Solecist Project
#38 - 2016-08-22 11:33:52 UTC
Dibz wrote:
Ironically enough, the forum rules prevent me from saying why the forums are worse than reddit. Neat little clause that, at least from the ISD's point of view Blink

It's funny how this doesn't match.

You say the forums are worse than reddit ...
... and you also say CAS is full of immature males who behave "cliquey".

And that is pretty much a perfect description of /r/eve.

Make up your mind or stop bullshitting.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
pajedas
Doomheim
#39 - 2016-08-22 11:38:20 UTC
@Solecist Project @ISD Buldath

Seems to be a thread of contradictions.

Be sure to run splchk.

🐇
Solecist Project
#40 - 2016-08-22 11:50:18 UTC
pajedas wrote:
@Solecist Project @ISD Buldath

Seems to be a thread of contradictions.

Be sure to run splchk.

See... instead of a twoliner you could have actually explained your point ...
... preferrably relatively objective and true to the facts! :D

But ou don't.
You just drop this here and don't actually care about how it comes across.
Or if anyone actually understands you.

And you don't care about your spelling, which is a bad sign as well.
But all you do is say "i don't care", instead of caring about yourself and asking why it actually matters.
And it does!

Why not try again?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia