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Should CCP Change Subscription To F2P Or P2W

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#61 - 2016-08-20 15:51:14 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
If EVE ever goes to a F2P model I'll stop playing.

I don't play F2P MMO's for a reason. Microtransactions are a ******* addicting, horrific model, that I personally do not trust myself with. And if EVE goes to it, for my sake I'll have to quit.


Then you better start looking for a different game to play, because EVE will go F2P at some point in some form. It has to or it will get left behind.



People have been saying that for a long time. Why are you so keen for EVE to be moved to an openly abusive model?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#62 - 2016-08-20 15:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Caco De'mon
Kalpel wrote:
I believe that if you cannot afford the cost of a subscription than internet gaming is the least of your problems!


I agree with your statement and all the other variations mentioned in this thread...

That being said, I think most of you are missing this point of WHY this is thread (and others) was created in the first place. Of course we need new PAYING players coming to EVE, the REAL reason is that attracting those people is what seems to be an issue. If you look at the trend of the last 5 years, the number of people playing is declining at a rate that may mean the death of EVE. From early 2013 to now, it appears half of the player-base have disappeared fro whatever reason(s) and if that trend continues, there can only be one outcome.

So really, while F2P, P2W or some variation (my suggestion, other suggestions, etc) may seem unpalatable to you, is not having EVE just to avoid F2P pitfalls an option you'd actual rather?

Seems to be a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face....


EDIT
If you look at the trend, I'd guess that 2017 is the last year for EVE if nothing significant changes to increase (or stabilize subs).

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#63 - 2016-08-20 16:00:07 UTC
Caco De'mon wrote:
Kalpel wrote:
I believe that if you cannot afford the cost of a subscription than internet gaming is the least of your problems!


I agree with your statement and all the other variations mentioned in this thread...

That being said, I think most of you are missing this point of WHY this is thread (and others) was created in the first place. Of course we need new PAYING players coming to EVE, the REAL reason is that attracting those people is what seems to be an issue. If you look at the trend of the last 5 years, the number of people playing is declining at a rate that may mean the death of EVE. From early 2013 to now, it appears half of the player-base have disappeared fro whatever reason(s) and if that trend continues, there can only be one outcome.

So really, while F2P, P2W or some variation (my suggestion, other suggestions, etc) may seem unpalatable to you, is not having EVE just to avoid F2P pitfalls an option you'd actual rather?

Seems to be a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face....



Ah yes, the good old "CCP you better give me what I want or your game will die" argument.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#64 - 2016-08-20 16:03:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Caco De'mon
Malcanis wrote:
Ah yes, the good old "CCP you better give me what I want or your game will die" argument.



I want EVE, not F2P/P2W, so you can stop that right there (I PLEX so I don't give a poop personally). Also, the game IS on the wane and if you wont at least acknowledge that then you are in denial.

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#65 - 2016-08-20 16:53:53 UTC
Caco De'mon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ah yes, the good old "CCP you better give me what I want or your game will die" argument.



I want EVE, not F2P/P2W, so you can stop that right there (I PLEX so I don't give a poop personally). Also, the game IS on the wane and if you wont at least acknowledge that then you are in denial.



So you think that EVE should follow the roaring success of such games that transitioned to F2P, such as

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
lost packet
Alpha Flight
#66 - 2016-08-20 17:11:35 UTC
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#67 - 2016-08-20 19:30:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So you think that EVE should follow the roaring success of such games that transitioned to F2P, such as


If you looked at my suggestion you would see that no, I don't think that. To counter your false dichotomy with the same; So you hate any change along the P2W/F2P path so much that you would rather EVE just die?

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Solecist Project
#68 - 2016-08-20 20:38:47 UTC
Ooooohhhh now I get it!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Igrayne
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#69 - 2016-08-20 21:01:50 UTC
I would have no problem with a free entry level that's heavily restricted such as:
- T1's only
- Up to frigates only
- Only the basic industry ships
- Only HS
- Industrial restriction
- only T1 mods
- SecStatus of -2.5 results in character suspension
- no reverting from a sub'ed or PLEX'ed account to this "beginner" account
- limit skill able to train and levels
- etc
- (ps put the damn torches away these are just ideas....)


Enough to let people get a real feel over months rather than the short 14 day (or whatever). The key to getting and retaining new players is to show them just how massive and in-depth EVE really is...and it takes more than a free weekend of short trial account to do that.


Great idea needs serious consideration by the Devs !
Alexia Creed
Doomheim
#70 - 2016-08-20 21:55:37 UTC
Eve is already both. If you plex your account you can pay to win. Then if you Earn enough ISK, you can pay to play for free. I know someone else has already paid for the plex, however to the player that bought it, the game is free to play.
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#71 - 2016-08-20 22:26:46 UTC
Alexia Creed wrote:
Eve is already both. If you plex your account you can pay to win. Then if you Earn enough ISK, you can pay to play for free. I know someone else has already paid for the plex, however to the player that bought it, the game is free to play.



I think it's fair to say that the status quo isn't working....if it was working then this issue would be moot.

1. Get them to play
2. Give them a long time FREE to see the vastness and glory that is EVE.
3. Hope the sub
4. Show that eventually they will be able to F2P via PLEX
5. Profit



Bottom line, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results every time is the definition of miners insanity.

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#72 - 2016-08-20 22:51:51 UTC
Caco De'mon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So you think that EVE should follow the roaring success of such games that transitioned to F2P, such as


If you looked at my suggestion you would see that no, I don't think that. To counter your false dichotomy with the same; So you hate any change along the P2W/F2P path so much that you would rather EVE just die?

For a lot of us, a step in that direction would mean EVE was dead to us anyway.

Some considered injectors to be that step. Some considered the NES itself.

A signature :o
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#73 - 2016-08-20 23:07:44 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Some considered injectors to be that step. Some considered the NES itself.


Yet again...

If there isn't change then EVE's days are numbers. If the status quo isn't working then you need change.

Regardless how the purists feel, change is needed to (hopefully) fix the current trajectory and only poo-poo'ing anything that comes alone only contributes to said negative outcome.

I'm realizing that there is a strong nihilist sentiment here among many...

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2016-08-21 00:34:16 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Ooooohhhh now I get it!


took you 2 post to get it...
instantlock tackler spotted Shocked
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2016-08-21 02:32:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Caco De'mon wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Some considered injectors to be that step. Some considered the NES itself.


Yet again...

If there isn't change then EVE's days are numbers. If the status quo isn't working then you need change.

Regardless how the purists feel, change is needed to (hopefully) fix the current trajectory and only poo-poo'ing anything that comes alone only contributes to said negative outcome.

I'm realizing that there is a strong nihilist sentiment here among many...


Throughout EVE's entire existence, lots of players have come and gone because EVE was just too damn hard for them. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the vast majority of people who tried the game. Yet, it's continued to grow for most of its existence. Now, you tell us that EVE needs to change to attract new players. What I want to know is, what sort of change are you suggesting? Does it fit with the nature of EVE? Because right now, it's not the people who find the game too hard who are leaving.

It's the ones that stuck around for all those years, they're losing faith that EVE can grow and still be EVE.

You say it needs new players to replace the ones that have left. First consider how few have actually left, most of the sub loss we've seen has been players shutting down alts. Now, with some of the changes that EVE has seen since 2013, consider who is actually leaving for EVE to be changing direction from the steady growth it saw up unti 2013. Why, it's the vets of course.

So, if EVE was retaining its vets before, and still growing with new players.... but now suddenly it's declining and needs new players to survive? It didn't before.

Something changed. Something in the game itself that drove players away. It was actually a few things, over time.

So sure, tell us all again how EVE needs to change. Because they tried changing it. And it drove players away.

Yes, EVE needs to change and adapt, as do all games. No, change for the sake of change or for the sake of drawing in other players outside of its niche audience is NOT a good thing.

No one is saying, "don't change muh EVE". They're actually saying, "do it right".

F2P is not right. It's not 'hip' or 'modern' or any of that. F2P is corporate abuse. If EVE goes F2P, you'll be replacing the passionate, guilish, mature audience with a bunch of mindless zombies who'll play anything just because it looks 'free'. News flash: nothing is free, and if you've fallen for the F2P model being a good thing, then I pity you, I genuinely do, and hope you will at least someday be able to see the forest through the trees.

F2P is where games go to die.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#76 - 2016-08-21 02:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Caco De'mon wrote:

I think it's fair to say that the status quo isn't working....if it was working then this issue would be moot.

It's not our role as players to make business decisions for CCP.

Who cares what we think? CCP will do what it thinks is best for its future.

All we can do is play the game, or if we aren't happy with it, not play and not pay.

The navel gazing around what CCP should or shouldn't do is stupid. We have no power there.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#77 - 2016-08-21 03:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Caco De'mon
Quote:
What I want to know is, what sort of change are you suggesting? Does it fit with the nature of EVE? Because right now, it's not the people who find the game too hard who are leaving. It's the ones that stuck around for all those years, they're losing faith that EVE can grow and still be EVE.


Page 1, post 2.

I'm not speaking about the old guard types that are leaving.


Quote:
You say it needs new players to replace the ones that have left. First consider how few have actually left, most of the sub loss we've seen has been players shutting down alts. Now, with some of the changes that EVE has seen since 2013, consider who is actually leaving for EVE to be changing direction from the steady growth it saw up unti 2013. Why, it's the vets of course.


All businesses need NEW customers. A business that relies on subs that can be bypasses with in-game PLEX by those with enough time/experience desperately needs new customers as the old guard are not the ones paying the bills any more.

Who is leaving is not what I'm addressing by my suggestions.



Quote:
So, if EVE was retaining its vets before, and still growing with new players.... but now suddenly it's declining and needs new players to survive? It didn't before.Something changed. Something in the game itself that drove players away. It was actually a few things, over time. So sure, tell us all again how EVE needs to change. Because they tried changing it. And it drove players away.


Why the vets are leaving is beyond the scope of my suggestions. I did suggest how EVE could change to attract new customers.



Quote:
No, change for the sake of change or for the sake of drawing in other players outside of its niche audience is NOT a good thing. No one is saying, "don't change muh EVE". They're actually saying, "do it right".


This isn't an out of the blue "hey everything is fine but let's upset the apple-cart because YOLO!" but rather an honest attempt at dialogue in an option that IMO has the best chance of doing something.


Quote:
F2P is where games go to die.

I'm not suggesting a pure F2P game so...I did say this earlier "F2P is a horrible option but a greatly hobbled F2P (IMO) is not." but I'm guessing you didn't' read that either.

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#78 - 2016-08-21 03:22:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Caco De'mon
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Caco De'mon wrote:

I think it's fair to say that the status quo isn't working....if it was working then this issue would be moot.

It's not our role as players to make business decisions for CCP.

Who cares what we think? CCP will do what it thinks is best for its future.

All we can do is play the game, or if we aren't happy with it, not play and not pay.

The navel gazing around what CCP should or shouldn't do is stupid. We have no power there.



We're not making business decisions for CCP, we're talking.

You're in a forum where people exchange ideas...people care. If you didn't then you wouldn't have posted. Nobody forced you here to read/post.

No, we can also interact outside the game...here for example and other places.

If talking about thing CCP things here is "stupid", then complaining about people talking about CCP things must be utterly moronic.


Also, why do you keep posting in this thread if you loath it so so much?

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#79 - 2016-08-21 03:37:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Caco De'mon
Remiel Pollard

Out of curiosity, how would you attract new players? You're dead-set against F2P/P2W so, what are your suggestions?

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#80 - 2016-08-21 03:42:48 UTC
They could make an F2P/P2W shard and call it Augeus.

And that would be a seriously stupid idea, because eventually TQ would bleed over there and become a ghost town thanks to the lure of "free."

A signature :o