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Closing incursions by killing the Mothership

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J Kunjeh
#41 - 2012-01-16 18:57:36 UTC
I approve heartily! Though I had hoped to one day farm Incursions myself, I think they shouldn't be nearly as farmable as they are. I doubt this will change anything on CCP's side, but I think they're already looking at making some changes anyhow.

On another note, I wholeheartedly disapprove of your slippery grasp on the English language...how did you ever make CSM again?

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Dzajic
#42 - 2012-01-16 19:01:32 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
I approve heartily! Though I had hoped to one day farm Incursions myself, I think they shouldn't be nearly as farmable as they are. I doubt this will change anything on CCP's side, but I think they're already looking at making some changes anyhow.

On another note, I wholeheartedly disapprove of your slippery grasp on the English language...how did you ever make CSM again?


CSM has complained to CCP that highsec Incursions make too much money; there is a devpost saying that it is in considerations, will be rebalanced and there will be a devblog about it. I'd bet 0.01isk that people will continue grifing even after a nerf; its not about money; its about tears and inconveniencing other people. If it was for preventing isk pump they'd close all highsec incursions all the time.
Roxwar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-01-16 19:11:58 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Roxwar wrote:


Maybe i dont see the bigger picture so only commenting on what i gleen from these forums, but what effect does it have on your experience of playing eve, your game, that high sec players are farming a particular event and earning lots of isk?



The bigger picture is this: despite low and 0.0 sec incursions nominally pay out better, low sec and 0.0 players come to hi sec (or jump clone to hi sec) to farm hi sec incursions.

Even former rich WH players abandon WHs to switch into doing hi sec incursions.


Now, the reasons are many but I suppose the main one is this:

Low sec and 0.0 incursions pay more but must be done on far worse ships and T2 fittings therefore they end up being done at more risk and MUCH less efficiency than high sec ones. Therefore the low sec / 0.0 dwellers do their math and all come to hi sec. Furthermore, unlike hi sec, the more you stay at a given site, the exponentially higher the probability of being found by aggressors.

This automagically promotes hi sec incursions as THE way to farm ISK. Expecially when made not to end.
In the past, this happened for other game features (i.e. L4) and CCP used some hard nerfs, multiple times.


Ahh, now i see more clearly.

But using that very same logic, Darius is actually not only messing with high sec playes, but WH/Low/Null players all at the same time yes? So basically in effect, he's alienating 99% of the EVE player base in doing what he's doing?

Way to get yourself re-elected for CSM Shocked

I have to ask ( excuse the noobism here ) but from reading the forums, does being a CSM member require you to be a complete douche most of the time and make a point of ruining everybody elses game just because their idea of fun differ's from your own?
Seems thats the general concensus from here regarding people such as The Mittani and Darius and the actions they've taken and the way in which they managed to get the actual owners to change the game mechanics in certain regards to suit their own ideals as to how THEY think the game should work.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#44 - 2012-01-16 19:13:15 UTC
You're new here, aren't you?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Callous Jade
Dockturnal Bromance
#45 - 2012-01-16 19:22:32 UTC
Dzajic wrote:
Krissada wrote:
OH MY GOD - LOOK AT ALL THOSE TEARS
What have I done? Sad


Your bait fleets were "busted" immediately, and remain to be epically obvious traps. But with apparent lack of incursions people are desperate to get into fleets and feed you. How many alts did you recycle advertising in BTL and DTF? Fifty? Sixty?

And you really didn't do anything new. Grief fleets were there the moment incursions started. Without Darius'es help to turn Incursions into scarce commodity you couldn't have done anything.


Thing is, you and Darius and so many others are just terrible persons. You can say you are doing it for trolling or for lulz... but so near beneath those words your sociopathy shines like a nova. Causing injury and grief to others for personal profit and even worse for amusement isn't fun or trolling, its sociopathic behavior.



Bahahaha, another idiot that actually equates ingame morals/ethics to their RL counterparts. You probably get the **** end of the stick in both amirite? Get a clue.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#46 - 2012-01-16 19:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Approve:

This low-risk ISK-farming has gotten right ******* stupid, and the mechanic that permits it is clearly a loophole, and should actually be considered an exploit, petitionable and punishable as such.

And now, a bit of tangent, but it's germane, imho.

Think why, all you miners, missioners, and industrialists, think why ISK and most T1 mods you build (or loot and sell from PvE'ing) have ****-all for value. There are two reasons:

1) The EVE market is biased towards over-stocking/over production (at least according to a QEN I read some time ago), exacerbated by non-depleting resources.

2) The ISK-faucets only devalue those resources further.

I hear people using the term "inflation" a lot to describe the current economic situation, but this isn't so: Classic inflation is defined as too much money chasing too few goods/services, which shoots the price up--so why then are Dominix' selling for like 45-50mn (hardly more than a tier 2 Battlecruiser), with bid/ask margins at pennies on the dollar? This is not inflation, this is deflation...EVE needs both an ISK-sink, and a material-sink, but I'm digressing...

Basically, hisec Incursion-farming is by far and away the biggest/lowest-risk ISK faucet I've ever seen in 3 years' playing, and it's not getting any better....I approve of D3's...ummm..."little project"...because it has potential to dam up at least one major ISK-faucet. And if any halfway-serious industrialist or marketeer doesn't understand why this is a good thing for the game and their career-path, then well, I can't help you.


Oh, and one other thing:

From what I've seen, Incursion-bears are some of the most sanctimonious, up-themselves, elitist cunts in the game--as bad as sov-nulltards, and in some ways worse--and they could use a good kicking for that.

Because the most dedicated carebears aren't people, they're giant flying pinatas full of cool party-favours!

(D3 for CSM 7 chair, by the way.)

TL/DR: This arguably-an-exploit ISK faucet needs plugging to hopefully put a dent in the EVE-economy's deflationary spiral, and will also generate carebear tears, which keep my ships' windscreens nice and clean.

E: Typos + added TL/DR

Ni.
Goose99
#47 - 2012-01-16 19:37:08 UTC
I didn't read all that wall of text. But the whine, butthurt, and jealousy just jumps out of it and baths you in its fluids. Who knew you can make tards so mad just by making internet spaceship moniez? More pleaseBig smile
Dzajic
#48 - 2012-01-16 19:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dzajic
Oh really? Your only care is EVE economy? And 2 to 3 thousand people total doing Incursions getting 100-140m/hr (LPs aren't isk faucet, LP stores are actually a isk sink) are a huge danger for EVEs economy?

Tens of thousands of rating and mining bots otoh are what... beneficial for the economy? Well I know for certain they are beneficial to IRL wallets of Alliance overlords who grant them space. There are anom and rating macros for Titans and Moms for the love of Jeebus!

Edit. No one is doing lowsec and null incursions. They just despawn at full red bars after 5 days or a week. This is true for so much cases that few exceptions are irrelevant. They could pay 10x as much as they pay now (which is already 45% more than highsec ones) and you'd still have a microscopic number of people doing them.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-01-16 19:44:41 UTC
There are 3 incursions in high-sec, 2 of which have a mom spawn, don't start slacking now....
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#50 - 2012-01-16 19:48:09 UTC
colay Starwolf wrote:
[...]
By doing this thay are Telling you have to play EvE online this way or we will not let you play. It defeats the point of making the game a sandbox game. Like i said remove the feedom and you remove part of the heart and soul of EvE.


How are they not letting you play, exactly?

Is Incursion-farming the only way to make piles of ISK in this game? No.

Is it written anywhere that Incursion-farming is the only high-end PvE in this game that you're allowed to use? No.

Is it also written anywhere that you're not supposed to use your head and be careful of whom you let into your Incursion fleet/corp?

It's just that the other high-end PvE options in this game carry risks more or less proportionate to their rewards, and are generally not farmable (Class 4+ wormholes, 7/10+ nullsec complexes and/or expeditions, and flipping LP from level 5 missions among other ways).

This ISK-faucet rivals all of those, yet has a loophole that allows it to be endlessly farmed, at almost no risk if your FC and logi pilots are halfway-competent.

For damned sure, if you have any brains, you wouldn't be taking those officer-modded Machariels into a C4 or C5 anomaly, now, would you?

Another reason I approve of this: It's forcing carebears to be smarter about their 'bearing...Something that would have gone without saying for the old-school bears I started the game and "grew up" with, where did they all go?

If you want mindless, no-risk/no-thought-required PvE content, then there are many, many MMOs out there who do this much, much better than EVE ever has, or probably ever will.

TL/DR: Emergent, community-generated game play is emergent, adapt or GTFO, and if the latter, then send your stuffs to me first.




Ni.
J Kunjeh
#51 - 2012-01-16 19:55:16 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:

From what I've seen, Incursion-bears are some of the most sanctimonious, up-themselves, elitist cunts in the game--as bad as sov-nulltards, and in some ways worse--and they could use a good kicking for that.


This right here is the real reason I'm loving this new movement to kill the mom spawns in Incursions. Blacklisting? That pisses me off far more than the isk farming does and I hope the "leaders" of the two main Incursion channels cry until there are no more tears to cry.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Dzajic
#52 - 2012-01-16 20:02:40 UTC
When you are putting survivability of shiny fits into hands of strangers blacklisting is 100% necessary. Leaders of all Incursion running corps have such absurd amounts of ISK that in the end they will be the ones who can easiest just shrug and go "was nice till it lasted".

You just deny isk to newer players (or newcomers to incursions) and are forcing them to stay in highsec doing L4s.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#53 - 2012-01-16 20:04:14 UTC
Dzajic wrote:
Krissada wrote:
OH MY GOD - LOOK AT ALL THOSE TEARS
What have I done? Sad


Your bait fleets were "busted" immediately, and remain to be epically obvious traps. But with apparent lack of incursions people are desperate to get into fleets and feed you. How many alts did you recycle advertising in BTL and DTF? Fifty? Sixty?

And you really didn't do anything new. Grief fleets were there the moment incursions started. Without Darius'es help to turn Incursions into scarce commodity you couldn't have done anything.


Thing is, you and Darius and so many others are just terrible persons. You can say you are doing it for trolling or for lulz... but so near beneath those words your sociopathy shines like a nova. Causing injury and grief to others for personal profit and even worse for amusement isn't fun or trolling, its sociopathic behavior.


Man this guy sounds mad.

Also, confirming actions taken in a video game are grounds for a sociopath diagnosis.
Roxwar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-01-16 20:22:39 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
You're new here, aren't you?


I am indeed, is it that obvious? lol
Dzajic
#55 - 2012-01-16 20:23:49 UTC
People without IRL socipathic tendencies would not indulge and enjoy in deeply sociopathic behavior in a virtual environment.
J Kunjeh
#56 - 2012-01-16 20:25:51 UTC
Dzajic wrote:

You just deny isk to newer players (or newcomers to incursions) and are forcing them to stay in highsec doing L4s.


Forcing them? Trololol. You mean they can't fly out to null or lowsec or do about 100 other things in hisec? WTF? Fix this CCP!

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#57 - 2012-01-16 20:26:49 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
I have reading back on your posts OP and if it was true about the support you got in hisec than I hope that blacklist grows by leaps and bounds.

Folks people like the OP are using your so called feeling towards incursions and their runners to serve their own goals. Which is to drive people back into their CTAs. They don't give a DAMN about you in my opinion. You helped 00 overlords become more powerful and burned your characters to any good shiny fleet in the future. Congrats fools!


WTB: Tech III Tinfoil BPO, will pay top ISK!

Ni.
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-01-16 20:33:53 UTC
Dzajic wrote:
Edit. No one is doing lowsec and null incursions. They just despawn at full red bars after 5 days or a week. This is true for so much cases that few exceptions are irrelevant. They could pay 10x as much as they pay now (which is already 45% more than highsec ones) and you'd still have a microscopic number of people doing them.


Last lowsec one was poped in like 2 days, the one before that was poped near its natural end, the one before that got max blue right away but no one ran the mom site. Current one is in a very hot area.

Please continuing embarrassing yourself
Akyla Dey
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-01-16 20:38:45 UTC
I don't think it matters. Do what you want. Here's the thing - you can question the motivations and 'who profits?' all you want, but the bottom line is it's allowed. Nobody's breaking the game. Nobody's exploiting mechanics - on either side. Until CCP enacts a change, Incursions are what they are. If nobody takes down the Mom, people are going to farm them. If people, for whatever reason, decide to take the Incursion down, it's going to happen. If CCP was terribly concerned with how their content was being abused, they would have fixed it. They're obviously either on the fence about it or slowly reworking things since nothing has been done yet. It's legit until CCP changes it.

I wish all those people stealing my low and nullsec exploration sites would go away and let me play the game my way. I wish all those Sov Alliances would let me run sites without podding me. But that isn't the game. (actually I don't wish that, because fights are fun). I said it in C&P and I'll say it here - this game is all about competition for resources. Be it sites, ships, territory or the market, you're always competing against someone else for isk. Even missioners have to deal with gankers and ninja salvagers.

When people on either side of this whine about it, all they're saying is 'stop being mean'. Let me play the game the way I want? Fine, that goes for both sides. PvP mechanics are there. You get CONCORDed in highsec, you deal with gate guns in low. If people agress, they suffer the consequences knowingly. You undocked knowing the same things. Like it or not, this applies to Incursions as much as anything else.

People talk about null this and null that. You know how those Alliances got like that? They got together and staked their claim, then defended it. I'm not praising the actions of any group here, just pointing out that PvP rules this game. If you're not willing to fight for what you want in one way or another, you won't have it long. EVE is in no way egalitarian; the guy that brings the biggest stick to the fight wins. That's been a long standing theme of EVE. It was like that when you first logged on, it'll be like that when you leave.

So yeah, blow up the Mom or farm it, but quit crying and do something. It's time to put up or shut up.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#60 - 2012-01-16 20:42:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Bye! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Dzajic wrote:
Just reading the OP and supportive comments (and in C&P threads) makes me physically sick. The feeling that EVE has more than its fair shared of sociopaths that had me unsub so many times before. And "wtf did I resub, its as bad as has always been".



Mother of all GodsRollRollRoll...

Here it is, the carebear mentality distilled to it's essence:

Dzalic wrote:
There is no exploit of any kind involved with highsec incursions. Nothing. CCP made them to stay for a week and despawn if no one kills mom before that. Of course please keep them alive as long as possible and do sites that farm best isk. Its only reasonable option.


If what D3 et al are doing keeps mewling gold-farmer parasites like you out of our game, then I am even more for it. How can you possibly even stay interested in EVE, even as short-term as you do, if all you do is farm more ISK? Seriously, what's the bloody point? Unless you're RMT'ing your earnings--you wouldn't do a nasty, illegal thing like that, now would you??--then how does having a larger pixel-amount of pixel-money in your pixel-wallet, to spend on pixel-shinies do anything tangible, IRL for you?

Again, what's the bloody point?

EVE's PvE component is an archaic, primitive, ****-designed, tedious, un-immersive grind, I should think that most players would try to minimise doing it as much as possible, and go do fun stuff once done.

In other words:

Stop blaming others for your intellectual self-imprisonment, carebear:

The real reason you can't stay subbed is because you get bored of farming ISK, and are too risk-averse and mentally-straight-jacketed to try anything else, even in a game that gives you almost unlimited options for such, compared to most other MMOs...

That's not the fault of any "sociopaths;" That's no-one's fault but your own.

I can haz ur stuffs?

E: Additional thoughts, and typing-fail.

Ni.