EVE General Discussion

1. Stop with the "playstyle" nonsense please.
The game has rules, lore, mechanics and playstyles don't matter beyond the silly egos. This is the number one crap that comes from people who want to force others to stop playing by the rules and mechanics of the game. Carebears.

2. The game isn't seperated in "zones".
Telling someone to go somewhere for fights shows ignorance of how the game works. This most often comes from carebears who want to force others to leave them alone in highsec.

3. Security status. Which one? Personal or system? Sheesh...

4. Peace is boring*, bad for the economy and kills off interactivity. See also apathy, selfishness and ignorance.

Can you try again?


*for the game as a whole. Nothing going on, silent locals, nothing to see, no immersion (which comes mostly from players)

Both of you misinterpreted not only my tone but my point.

I'm saying putting all this energy and effort into something that you can't likely change is a waste of electrons. If 'everyone' has this fallacy then who do you think actually has the fallacy?

I'm not saying HiSec is SUPPOSED to be peaceful, I'm saying... it *IS* peaceful and the vast majority of the occupants want it that way. You guys are ice skating uphill.

Solecist, that was your entire OP observation. I'm just telling you, you're barking up the wrong tree and the ONLY way you are going to actually win this argument is to get CCP to drop the security status zones... good luck with that.

You guys have this picture of EVE in your heads, lore, history, what not, but all of that is absolutely irrelevant to the current reality. If it bugs you so much, go teach the newbies all about that stuff, but don't be surprised if you don't get many converts.

I started playing in January. I'm completely unburdened by all of that past stuff. I don't have to fight that fight against my own perceptions on these points. I don't want to make it what it was, but accept what is and suggest tweaks to make it stronger and more interactive on all fronts, not just the way I like to see it played.

I'm out in Null now. I don't give a flying flip about HiSec. I don't need to care about anything else but my own game. I let CCP worry about their game. If they screw it up, I have other things to play. I'm happy to give them my advice on what I think might be for the game but I certainly don't try to tell them what to do. I am not in a position to judge other players and how they like to play.

Thus my comments about play style. I'm not giving that up Solecist until I see something better and more productive for the game itself, thus far I'm unimpressed with both sides of the argument over HiSec. You might have your crusade against peace but my crusade is to wake players up as to the real power they have, not over the game, not over each other, but over themselves.

As my sig says, fix yourself first. That means a lot of different things but one of them is find your happy spot and do what you like to do, make EVE your game and don't care so much about someone else's. If your game is blowing them up, go do it. If it's endlessly orbiting an asteroid, not my style but more power to you. If it's squeezing that last 0.01 ISK out of a transaction... hey, whatever blows your skirt.

You will have a far greater level of sanity and serenity if you let it go guys. Post up your gripes, sure, but we have pages and pages of hammering each other here on the forums, for what? It doesn't generate good will between players, and when CCP sees that, they are less inclined to believe anything we have to say.

Hammering on me, trying to get me to see your perspective is understandable but I've heard all the arguments and so far I'm moved more toward tolerance and less toward some singular vision of EVE... in any direction. I like you guys, I really do, but apparently I'm really not successful at all in getting you guys to step outside of your perspectives and look at anyone else's. That's my failure here. I have to own that failure entirely.

You weren't trying to get someone to 'step outside their persepctice', you were parroting a line that has been trotted out here for 13 years.

To wit:

You may have meant something else, but that's what you wrote. It's nonsense, it's telling people "if you want pvp, leave high sec" , which (as I said) is no different from how people told me to gbtHighSec because I lived in null yet wasn't some pvp fanatic (I'm glad that alliance is dead now btw).

So why start a thread if you don't want discussion ?

>> I want to know your thoughts, seriously ... i put actual effort into this. :p

Why ask for thoughts but get out the flamethrower when they differ from yours?

This is a forum. You need a blog.



And that sums up the rest of your post.

Well what we *deserve* is probably complete and utter annihilation, by this point - so probably a good thing if we can delay getting that a while

Democracy
Plutocracy
Kleptocracy
Meritocracy
And now-- Mediocracy! That describes the company I work in and the country I live in just right!

Anyway, as for the high sec non-apathetic hatred in high sec, it's still there. CODE lost at least one flamboyant and vocal fanner of flames. That toned down the psych war some. Anti-Ganking core people are still steadily but quietly waging war on CODE and other gankers. Quietly, because they don't want to tip their hands and show their methods to the guys casually coming into and leaving minerbumping channel. And because the vehement guys coming into Anti-Ganking channel are mostly newbros, who don't know PVP yet. Not even insta-grata fleet PVP. Much less solo hunting and stunting PVP, under CONCORD rules and Faction Police ships. The isk/hour isn't that great either. (Loot a Cat, albeit T2 fit).

But I hear you OP, there's some apathy in high sec. Last time I undocked in Hek, ganker was present, and the local guys accepted it like it was today's weather. Might be rainy, nothing you can do about it, take your umbrella.

Post with your main. I know this isn't it.
Gtfo with your code nonsense.
You haven't been in hek in ages obviously.
They achieve nothing on their own, just tons of air and wannabeism.
Just look at how pathetic they are now because their big brother wolf soprano got banned.

That "no apparent reason" was the one thing that kept everyone who runs his ass about "how gankers only sit in station" and how "gankers have it too easy" etc etc away. That's the one big issue when it comes to using a scouting alt. It gives them a ground to complain about how you avoid any meaningfull consequences of your actions.

What they think isn't relevant per se, but literally handing them an argument isn't necessary.


....



Besides, sitting in the safety of a station only relying on a scout to find targets makes you look like a coward. Like, holy ****, you guys are worse than carebears avoiding any and all dangers. No, 30 seconds of actual gameplay can't be considered any danger whatsoever! You're horrible players and you should be ashamed of yourselves for dragging ganking into the mud like this! And the bullshit about the faction police, like WTF, they're the only thing making ganking actually fun because all these useless wastes of bandwidth don't engage anyone anyway!!!111oneoneone

Heh, good times. ;)

Sadly you're making some assumptions here that I think completely undermine your argument, and yes, it's an argument.

Your points require you to take a position... EVE is X, Y, Z and that *IS* a perspective. Claiming you're just an observationalist and posting your original post is a contradiction in viewpoints, you can't have it both ways. You are either observing or advocating. You can make an observation then advocate a position based upon it, but that's still advocating.

I'm fine with your position, it doesn't bother me, but it has no more 'merit' than the miners wanting less ganking in HiSec. Both positions are based on a form of fear (One side is "EVE isn't what it was!" the other "I can't play without being attacked!"). The "HiSec Carebears" have ruined the game mantra may be true, but to ruin something you have to have a point of what it was, meaning what you felt it to be. Have they forced changes, certainly, but change requires a perspective to judge if it's good or bad.

My position and point has been that if we all stopped trying to denigrate how someone else plays in the sandbox and work together to make sure the sandbox has enough sand and tools in the box for everyone to play the way they like, then the game stands improved, changed perhaps, but improved for everyone. If you want to call that egalitarian then fine, but I don't agree that it automatically changes the game for the worse, if done right, it should change the game for the better for everyone. Egalitarianism does not equal BAD.

I would submit that the game got to the way it is because CCP wants a broader appeal to the MMO community. That's not egalitarianism, that's intentional design choice to meet some goal, but it could be confused with egalitarianism as someone might spout it as such for marketing purposes. That makes it an excuse.

As for me being selfish about the HiSec statement, yes, I was being flippant. I was in HiSec for a long time and I was growing tired of the arguments from both sides. What you guys are discussing has been beaten to death, so yeah, I'm growing tired of caring about HiSec. Call that selfish or whatever you want, but that doesn't mean I don't care about the game or what it has in the future. What it really means is I don't care how players play in HiSec or anywhere for that matter. It's up to ME to make the adjustment to the play around me, not me try to change the game to fit how I want to play. Thus my comments about changing yourself first.

From my perspective, only the watchlist change truly impacted anything in recent times that couldn't be overcome with some minor play style change on my own part. Thus, I'm completely with Ralph on what it did to the Mercs. Other than that though, it's only been relatively minor adjustments that could be pushed another direction any day by CCP.

So, if wanting to allow everyone to play in the sandbox and have fun is egalitarianism, I guess I have to own that too.

Look, the whole point is that more peace means more stagnation, more isolation and less interaction.
I can't source that, it's common sense.

I'll explain via an example so you understand I'm not just for "one side".
I don't care about the sides. What I care about is how utterly silent and boring highsec has become.
The issue with the "carebear" side is that this side leads to stagnation, boredom and quitting.

You don't believe that? Then think about what you would do if you would never face any walls,
never faced any opposition and always succeeded in what you do.
People who "level their ravens" quit for a reason: boredom of success and richness.

You probably don't know "Suddenly Ninjas". People who were all about raiding highsec missions,
stealing their loot, salvaging their wrecks, getting into fights.

These guys brought immersion into the game, because it made it feel alive for everyone involved.

The more security there is, the less people will clash together. That means less talk in local (notice the silence?),
that means less things people can watch or talk about, it means less walls that you have to overcome.

The worst part here really is the silence, because it means that people aren't talking.
Lack of communication between strangers is *bad* and I hope I don't need to explain that part.

As a sane person you can not deny that silence and lack of action in space is a bad thing.

Saying "get out of highsec" in that context is outright bullshit, because literally everyone *starts* in highsec
and thus there needs to be more action and things to see and participate in for it to be interesting.

The perspective of a carebear is "leave me alone". It's "isolation".
It's "LALALA MY EARS ARE PLUGGED I CAN'T HEAR YOU".

Now extrapolate that to several thousand and you might understand why that's bad for the game?