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Can we all please stop being apathetic?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#121 - 2016-08-16 18:14:10 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Welcome back Sol!

Hope you're doing fine.


I'll throw an idea in the discussion: change CONCORD behaviour in 0.5 systems.

In 0.5, CONCORD doesn't blap GCC dudes anymore.

Instead, they warp in and target the illegaly-attacked guy. If and when his ship reaches, say 20% structure they zap him with an invulnerability lazor that also locks him in space. Like a siege module: no warping or jumping either. Effect lasts, say, 5 minutes.


Then it's up to the players. People can come and try to shoot the baddies, or jam them, whatever.

Could be random guys just passing by, or groups of security mercs, that will charge a fee.

Gankers would get to fly proper ships, instead of glass-cannon blappers. 'Good guys' would get a fun chance to fight, again in proper ships, instead of ECM gimmick boats or whatever the anti-gankers fly these days.


Or maybe nobody would show up because the victim has no friends and deserves to die, after his 5-minute 'come save me' window. :)


o/

This is why you should have been elected to the CSM.

That's a fresh idea that would create play for several groups.


If that idea had come from AG you would be debunking it and posting about how to get around it. You would also want it to be a module so new players who can't fit it, or that one risk-taker or forgetful player, can still be your food.




Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Solecist Project
#122 - 2016-08-16 20:06:19 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

No.

The lack of education roots in a culture that neglects the new players. An education that should be provided by the players, not big brother ccp. Ccp teaches new players zero about the game and expects players to take them when they are already ruined by their experiences theylaid out for them. And worse, they give no proper environment to actually deal with new players.

ccp over the years whined about new player retention while never changing the root of the issue, which is not just the npe but also - first and foremost - the initial environment they start in.


Welcome back Sol, good to see you again, although the meta just for the sake of being meta fascination is an aqcuired taste ^^.

Well there are plenty of players out there, taking in newbies and helping them getting established and prepares them for the nature of EVE. So the premise that there is a non caring culture is not completely true IMO.

The main problem is getting in contact with them, and saving them from fearing player / player interactions. I myself avoided all player interaction when I started as I had heard that you should trust no one in EVE. After 1 year of finally levelling a domi for lvl 4 missions after running lvl 3 missions in a myrmidon (I know you love people who do this ^^), I finally wanted to do some PVP , sucked and went to get help by joining a corp and the rest is history.

My point > In EVE you can easily isolate yourself, or listen to the wrong people in NPC corps. I do not see how this can be changed realistcally. You have to wait for people getting ready to accept EVE as it is. The talk about changing cultures etc. is unrealistic as you do not have the platform to reach them or even assure they listen.

Of course there are already those who try to gather noobs ...
... but not all of them are actually good at what they do ...
... nor should they do it ...
... and some are outright bad.

What's lacking is proper, organized effort. And by that I mean stomping the carebears out of it, because they ruin it for all of us. For years now has this been a thing and no one ever did anything. NOW we get to see what comes out of it.

I really don't think you fully understand the potential, if people actually moved their worthless asses and started farming noobs for their corps like they're something of value. It would be a game changer within a single generation. There's a lot of options, but in the end CCP bets on people being too happy with themselves and not doing anything. And it is getting constantly worse.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#123 - 2016-08-16 21:56:09 UTC
Thread TL;DR:
Player 1: "You're playing this sandbox game wrong"
Player 2: "NO U"
Solecist Project
#124 - 2016-08-16 22:01:43 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Thread TL;DR:
Player 1: "You're playing this sandbox game wrong"
Player 2: "NO U"

Sometimes i wish life was that simple.
Glad it is for you, though!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#125 - 2016-08-16 22:07:47 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Teinyhr wrote:
Thread TL;DR:
Player 1: "You're playing this sandbox game wrong"
Player 2: "NO U"

Sometimes i wish life was that simple.
Glad it is for you, though!


Is this the real life, is this just fantasy?
Tasspool Harp
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2016-08-16 22:20:28 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
[

What's lacking is proper, organized effort. And by that I mean stomping the carebears out of it, because they ruin it for all of us. For years now has this been a thing and no one ever did anything. NOW we get to see what comes out of it.




OMG an infestation of highsec carebears is ruining Eve for me and I didn't even realise. Here I was thinking I'm still enjoying this game despite the frequent encounters with players roleplaying as toolbags.

Wish you had put this in the opening post. Would have saved me a lot of reading.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2016-08-17 06:21:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:

Tell me how you would do this stunt in High where everyone and his brother, dog, fiance and lawyer wanders through "your teritory" with 20+ unknown chars in local.


20 friends with assigned drones and defensive boosts. Next question?

Sure, you want 20 friends staying watch for how many mining ships making <30M ISK/h and per mining ship? To fight against whom? The lonely bored vat that wants to push up his killboard?

Jenn aSide wrote:
NBSI has nothing to do with anything. Being prepared does. Knowing the game's mechanics does. Not defeating yourself before you even undock (which is what your posts suggests you do) helps.

I'll say it again, we figure out how to do it in null sec without any of the advantages of high sec. We (meaning the corp, I wasn't with them then) figured out how to do it in high sec when we lived in high sec. The people who can't are the people who didn't even try but prefer to run to CCP for help.

How will you protect yourself in High when there is no room for false positives? Wrong assumption and Concord will kill you.
But can you tell me what lowering the security of High will do to alter this problem?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#128 - 2016-08-17 06:28:09 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Welcome back Sol!

Hope you're doing fine.


I'll throw an idea in the discussion: change CONCORD behaviour in 0.5 systems.

In 0.5, CONCORD doesn't blap GCC dudes anymore.

Instead, they warp in and target the illegaly-attacked guy. If and when his ship reaches, say 20% structure they zap him with an invulnerability lazor that also locks him in space. Like a siege module: no warping or jumping either. Effect lasts, say, 5 minutes.


Then it's up to the players. People can come and try to shoot the baddies, or jam them, whatever.

Could be random guys just passing by, or groups of security mercs, that will charge a fee.

Gankers would get to fly proper ships, instead of glass-cannon blappers. 'Good guys' would get a fun chance to fight, again in proper ships, instead of ECM gimmick boats or whatever the anti-gankers fly these days.


Or maybe nobody would show up because the victim has no friends and deserves to die, after his 5-minute 'come save me' window. :)


o/

This is why you should have been elected to the CSM.

That's a fresh idea that would create play for several groups.


If that idea had come from AG you would be debunking it and posting about how to get around it. You would also want it to be a module so new players who can't fit it, or that one risk-taker or forgetful player, can still be your food.





Don't be a dickhead.

I like the idea and it wouldn't matter who posted it. I would have liked it just as much if it came from an AG.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#129 - 2016-08-17 07:50:48 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Welcome back Sol!

Hope you're doing fine.

I'll throw an idea in the discussion: change CONCORD behaviour in 0.5 systems.

In 0.5, CONCORD doesn't blap GCC dudes anymore.

Instead, they warp in and target the illegaly-attacked guy. If and when his ship reaches, say 20% structure they zap him with an invulnerability lazor that also locks him in space. Like a siege module: no warping or jumping either. Effect lasts, say, 5 minutes.

Then it's up to the players. People can come and try to shoot the baddies, or jam them, whatever.

Could be random guys just passing by, or groups of security mercs, that will charge a fee.

Gankers would get to fly proper ships, instead of glass-cannon blappers. 'Good guys' would get a fun chance to fight, again in proper ships, instead of ECM gimmick boats or whatever the anti-gankers fly these days.

Or maybe nobody would show up because the victim has no friends and deserves to die, after his 5-minute 'come save me' window. :)

o/

This is why you should have been elected to the CSM.

That's a fresh idea that would create play for several groups.


If that idea had come from AG you would be debunking it and posting about how to get around it. You would also want it to be a module so new players who can't fit it, or that one risk-taker or forgetful player, can still be your food.


Highly likely...

It is an interesting idea, there is of course an interesting unforeseen consequence that would result from this

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Solecist Project
#130 - 2016-08-17 07:55:08 UTC
Invulnerability laser... and you people think that's a good idea.
Besides it being offtopic and not helping the big picture at all.

This is just nonsense on so many levels.
Next people will demand that they all have them to protect each other permanently...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#131 - 2016-08-17 08:04:58 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Welcome back Sol!

Hope you're doing fine.

I'll throw an idea in the discussion: change CONCORD behaviour in 0.5 systems.

In 0.5, CONCORD doesn't blap GCC dudes anymore.

Instead, they warp in and target the illegaly-attacked guy. If and when his ship reaches, say 20% structure they zap him with an invulnerability lazor that also locks him in space. Like a siege module: no warping or jumping either. Effect lasts, say, 5 minutes.

Then it's up to the players. People can come and try to shoot the baddies, or jam them, whatever.

Could be random guys just passing by, or groups of security mercs, that will charge a fee.

Gankers would get to fly proper ships, instead of glass-cannon blappers. 'Good guys' would get a fun chance to fight, again in proper ships, instead of ECM gimmick boats or whatever the anti-gankers fly these days.

Or maybe nobody would show up because the victim has no friends and deserves to die, after his 5-minute 'come save me' window. :)

o/

This is why you should have been elected to the CSM.

That's a fresh idea that would create play for several groups.


If that idea had come from AG you would be debunking it and posting about how to get around it. You would also want it to be a module so new players who can't fit it, or that one risk-taker or forgetful player, can still be your food.


Highly likely...

It is an interesting idea, there is of course an interesting unforeseen consequence that would result from this




What's that mode makes a ship tank like a station.... Bastion Mode I think they call it? I never flew ships that can do that so I don't know. I has the dumb with anything larger than a BC.

I would make it a module so that one has to be at the keyboard to use it, and aware. This automatic "zapped by CONCORD" thing is... strange.


But again, I'm a known High Commander of AG so every idea I would have is automatically bad, even the ones that actually try to lend "content" and real challenge to the game.

Because those using the word content really want easy kills.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#132 - 2016-08-17 08:06:22 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Invulnerability laser... and you people think that's a good idea.
Besides it being offtopic and not helping the big picture at all.

This is just nonsense on so many levels.
Next people will demand that they all have them to protect each other permanently...


That is a foreseen possibility. Lol

Part of the issue is that people want to blow them up but a Catalyst is not very satisfying is it...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#133 - 2016-08-17 08:13:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
What's that mode makes a ship tank like a station.... Bastion Mode I think they call it? I never flew ships that can do that so I don't know. I has the dumb with anything larger than a BC.

I would make it a module so that one has to be at the keyboard to use it, and aware. This automatic "zapped by CONCORD" thing is... strange.

But again, I'm a known High Commander of AG so every idea I would have is automatically bad, even the ones that actually try to lend "content" and real challenge to the game.

Because those using the word content really want easy kills.


Bastion mode, its damn good fun.

I am not a fan of CONCORD being god like..., but there would need to be a lot of balance tweaks to remove that part of CONCORD's abilities. Another zap ability by CONCORD is kinda meh, the only redeeming feature would be that it would annoy the hell out of gankers for fairly obvious reasons..

Yeah you are right content is really their easy content and they scream, shout and abuse to keep that content easy, aided and abetted by the GCM.

As I said the freighter wreck EHP buff was an interesting case in point in terms of that, because they would have to defend like the AG players do and they did not like it, so they did that. That is why I have so much contempt for them.

I also find CCP Fozzies pathetic attempt to balance off against that when he realised his mistake by buffing freighter EHP to be sad, it was like throwing a dog a bone with no marrow. Yeah here you are AG players your role is to sit there doing passive defence only so the gankers can laugh at you, oh well...

EDIT: Just to make things clear, I have a lot of respect for CCP Fozzie, but hisec always seems to be an afterthought and that balance was an afterthought.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2016-08-17 09:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

This is why you should have been elected to the CSM.

That's a fresh idea that would create play for several groups.

If that idea had come from AG you would be debunking it and posting about how to get around it. You would also want it to be a module so new players who can't fit it, or that one risk-taker or forgetful player, can still be your food.

Don't be a dickhead.

I like the idea and it wouldn't matter who posted it. I would have liked it just as much if it came from an AG.


That idea would only work with 0 response time of Concord or else the miner will be gone before Concord arrives. It will also favor vets that have multiple accounts and the result would be that the ganker gets a 100% success rate, because he either kills the target before Concord arrives or otherwise moves away with a microwarp and waits out just before the timer is down. And if Concord also freezes the suspect it changes nothing because the Ganker can still use throw away ships he just has to wait out the timer and the miner need to relay on external help and will himself do nothing except asking for help.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#135 - 2016-08-17 09:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Geronimo McVain wrote:
That idea would only work with 0 response time of Concord or else the miner will be gone before Concord arrives. It will also favor vets that have multiple accounts and the result would be that the ganker gets a 100% success rate, because he either kills the target before Concord arrives or otherwise moves away with a microwarp and waits out just before the timer is down. And if Concord also freezes the suspect it changes nothing because the Ganker can still use throw away ships he just has to wait out the timer and the miner need to relay on external help and will himself do nothing except asking for help.

A criminal timer is 15 minutes, during which a criminal can't reship.

100% success rate for gankers. Did you even read what Gully wrote?

With this idea, the response times of CONCORD could be easily shortened and yes of course vets with multiple accounts would benefit. That also goes for vet haulers.

But so would solo players, because play for the AG crowd would also be improved and they'd have time to respond.

At the moment, if the gank is well organised, the AGs have no play. The gankers can get in position and kill the target in the 15-20 odd seconds they have.

The mechanics move out of the way somewhat, allowing players to determine the outcome. That's the way it should be.

If a ship, which would die under the current gameplay has time to call in support, then that provides options that aren't currently there and importantly, provides opportunities for players (gankers and anti-gankers) to have additional play.

That's not a bad thing.

PS. Your ability to quote sux.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#136 - 2016-08-17 09:41:04 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Invulnerability laser... and you people think that's a good idea.
Besides it being offtopic and not helping the big picture at all.

This is just nonsense on so many levels.
Next people will demand that they all have them to protect each other permanently...

It could be reps, force-field, etc. (eg. Like the rorqual change coming, but for CONCORD to use).

It's no stranger than the existing CONCORD mechanics, but certainly a significant change from just being retribution to being more of a first-aid responder.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Solecist Project
#137 - 2016-08-17 09:42:22 UTC
And you guys need your own thread, because this has nothing to do with your rather horrible idea.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2016-08-17 09:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Solecist Project wrote:
And you guys need your own thread, because this has nothing to do with your rather horrible idea.

It's page 7. No thread stays perfectly on topic this far in.

It's an idea. I don't expect CCP is going to see this and develop it. But there have been many far,far worse ideas. Each to their own opinion though. No opinion is better then any other and just because I like this suggestion, doesn't make it a good idea, just s good idea to me.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#139 - 2016-08-17 10:44:23 UTC
I could do the apathetic about the apathy "joke", but someone already beat me to it.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#140 - 2016-08-17 15:00:18 UTC
What I've discovered is that posters here are very good at projecting, I count myself in that crowd as well but I'm trying to be better about it.

We all want to see the kind of game in EVE that we like to play be enhanced, but that's just projecting our desires onto the game. It's not like you can't go someplace to get a fight.

Who cares if HiSec is peaceful. If the creative play styles want to be left alone to create, let them. If you like a fight, Lo/Null bekons you.

It's why the various security status states even exist. Go find your game and play EVE your way. Don't worry about other play styles. If you want to suggest a game change, make sure all the play styles are taken into consideration.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP