EVE General Discussion

No, I haven't.

You're just sayin' stuff to get people to reply . . .

. . . oops.

-Jaz

Meh.

They listen when it fits for them. They have enough experience to understand that deliberately ******* some things up gains them karmapoints* for then "fixing" it. At the same time do they know that they can break things, because people will point out how they fixed "that other thing". Sure, it'll happen eventually and like with every political entity it'll be glorious and everyone forgot what happened in the first place.

* (it's both a pun and an insult depending on the perspective :P)


I was talking about how there aren't enough willing smart people to make a proper fuss to prevent things from happening.
You know, what some - including myself - would call organized.
Forums aren't organized and as long there are no mass-unsubs and no outlook of bad press... who cares?


CCP is, for us players in the universe, a - or the - political entity.
Reddit is a playing field for mainstreamers and manipulatable.
When the sheep squeek, the farmer listens if he wants to - for whatever reason.

Remember the "bug" CCP introduces that allowed all skins to fit on any ship? They removed it. Of course they did, it would have hurt their control over the content in the long rin. But who says they didn't put it in on purpose to water the people's wallets? It was a hype machine! A really good one! There was no better way to get people to play with the skins and getting hooked to them. No better way to gauge the customers interests!

Tinfoil? Ha, I would have done the same thing! It's NOT rocket science!


The real victims of ccp are the smart ones who are too isolated to cause proper opposition or somehow believe they're so smart that the thought of ccp having an agenda is completely foreign and conspiracy material for them.

And i didn't mean to tell people to shut up. Quite the opposite. They already are shutting up. The sheep on reddit don't count, they're the sheepish fun-crowd who is being milked of their money - rightfully so, i might add.

As Dirty and myself have pointed out often enough in the past and present: their name's the game.


(Wow i didn't even have coffee or food yet and managed to not insult anyone. I'm making progress!)

Look no further than the Svipul. It embodies the "but my fun" mentality.
Nobody is listening...

Well now that you mention it, our regular cloaky campers have packed their bags so I suspect they were I N F A M O U S's eyes. They have however already been replaced by some other cloaky camper, so ... nope. Can't say there are more fools on the loose than there were before.

Thanks for inquiring. I cannot tell you how much this means to me. Tea?

Ralph is correct, as usual. I don't have experience with the history of CCP and how they work with the game. I was trying really hard to avoid commenting on CCP's past and even where they might intend to go. I was more trying to make my points about a certain responsibility that we as posters have, especially you guys with the knowledge of the ancient tales of the past, if we want to actually continue to influence CCP.

I appreciate Solecist's response to me, it was on target and good. I was worried when I posted that comment that I might upset some people.

In the end, if we, as feedback to CCP, see ourselves as being ignored and post with bitter tears of disappointment, then not only will it be a self fulfilling prophecy but it just wastes our time grieving over our lack of power instead of taking it. To an extent, that's kind of what Solecist was actually getting at, the only real power we have as a community is where our subscription money goes.

I think at some level CCP sees that, understands it, and is probably not intentionally abusing that trust. They are entitled to their own direction and choices, it is their game.

My hope would be that we, as the community, could command enough respect with CCP that they are not only willing to listen to us, but partner with us. That means that we have to respect and partner with them as well. It's something of a two way street.

Maybe I'm totally out of line, being a little June Cleaver here, however, I like EVE... it's really challenging in ways other MMO's aren't. I agree if it goes the way of other MMO's then it loses it's luster to me like everyone else. That doesn't mean that CCP is trying to do that though. I think it's up to us to occasionally remind them what keeps us playing the game... and it's not OP ships.

On the subject of OP ships or mechanics, many of you know I claim some Game Balance and design experience with fairly large/popular PC games. Having sat in that chair and taken part in some extremely... energetic... discussions I can affirm that starship balance is about the hardest thing I've ever done in a game, both mechanics, build and politically.

What it really boils down to is personalities and human nature. You guys are dead on about there always being an OP ship. It's actually unavoidable because it's usually an error of omission rather than commission (intentional). I have seen them made intentionally but it almost never works out well. Most of these ships likely start as a template... (Generic Class Ship). Then they tweak to something they think they need the ship to do. They do some initial testing against what it's intended to do and other ships of the class/type. They refine again. Then they'll tend to pick a couple of ships that might be a good match for it and test. They'll tweak again. Generally if they are in a rush or don't care that much about it they'll release it for wider testing and publish it rapidly. This usually results in on of there things:

The ship works fine as intended (rare).
The ship is OP.
The ship is weak or fails at the task.

OP generally is easier to tweak and fix, but where a lot of designs go all sideways is in the weak or fails adjustments. They tweak it stronger but this almost always creates an OP ship and yes, such ships do appeal to players so sometimes the OP ships get to stay OP for a long time. This bugs me when companies do this kind of populist action, but as long as 3 out of 5 ships out there aren't the OP ships, it's usually not epidemic in nature.

So does CCP suffer from bait and switch on ship power? Possibly, but having been there and done that, I know the most likely answer is really due to lack of thoroughness, and most software companies suffer from it. If someone has some hard evidence of CCP doing these kinds of games, I'd love to see it as it would alter my perceptions of the company. So far I'm okay with giving them the benefit of the doubt.

P.S. Rumor is that Blizzard rotates what classes are OP to placate that classes players. In playing WoW for as long as I have, I have to say their is some evidence of it trendwise, historically speaking. It's entirely possible CCP is doing this as well with races and ships, but I hope not. I'd rather things stay in a reasonably good balance.

I care, random person I have never met before.

I liked that speech... couldn't like it there so I'll like it here... (clap)(clap) Bravo! Encore!

This one? http://i.imgur.com/h4rS2ix.png
I don't recall if i did it in GD as well, got only this one saved from OOPE. ^_^

I miss Ezwal. May he live in peace, breeding hundred children...
... okay that's contradictionary, but the thought counts.

AHAHAHA ROFL ROFL ROFL bis bis! can't login now, need to catch breath hohoho will be back in 2hrs tops

+17