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hay gaiz i kno how to fix assault frigs. giv them cruiser sized weapons.

A well known Skill points hole I will say

AFs have one role already - they excel as low-sec pirate vessels, so keep that in mind when proposing some ingenious "fix all role bonuses". In my opinion, no role bonus is needed and if you really insist on having one, it should be something which improve AFs survivability during fleet fights. Nothing exotic, please...

New AF's: a bit OP and still useless

Sure FW guys will use them. But they already use them now.

Sure this is an improvement. But not a successs

Yes Takeshi, AFs just need one more reason to be primared during fleet fights. So again guys, NO exotics here..

I feel that giving them the role bonus is out place, AFs are smaller HACs and should be basic better combat frigates like HACs are basic better combat cruisers. They all needed their 4th bonus, slot reworks and fitting fixes but feel that the role bonus is a step too far. Nice that they are more survivable with a MWD on but maybe a slight mass and sig reduction were all they need rather than a role bonus.

Amarr:
- Retribution; 4H/2M/6L might be an interesting and unique slot layout for the ship and no-one seems to have said it yet. Amarr should have the most lows on one of their ships at least. Also 5% tracking boost WTF??? every other ship in the game gets 7.5% did you not learn from that last time when you decided in needed to be increased?

- Vengeance; 4H/3M/5L would be a better layout for this ship. Also the bonus "5% bonus to Capacitor Recharge Rate per level" should be changed to something useful like the very Khanid bonus of "10% bonus to armor hitpoints." Also going with frigate size ROF bonuses were a huge issue with server lag back in the day why go back to that rather than a straight up DPS bonus? (I know it gets a bit more DPS with ROF but with added tanking of HP bonus that would need to be toned back a bit)

Gallente:
- Enyo; 5H/3M/4L seems fine, wouldn't mind a 4H/3M/5L layout but not complaining. Enyo's Optimal bonus should be switched to a falloff bonus. Makes more sense with blaster boats for falloff

- Ishkur; 4H/3M/4L is pretty amazing and scary, Rather than a drone bonus to just drone HP why not do something like active reps (a very Gallente bonus) or like someone else stated a bandwidth increase per level.

Caldari:
- Hawk; where are you finding the fittings for the added slots? Also booster bonus has always been out of place on it should be a straight up 5% Shield Resistance bonus and that bonus would help both active tankers and buffer tankers rather than the just active bonus now.

- Harpy; looks nice don't fly them so not sure about the fitting issues but bonuses seem like they should work well together.

Minmitar:
- Jaguar; 4H/4M/4L is amazing! Still needs to be the falloff bonused ship. Feel like the Jaguar should have a 4th turret

- Wolf; 5H/2M/5L Artillery beast needs the Optimal bonus not falloff.

I feel like the Amarr ones are still trailing behind the others and noticed I wrote quite a bit more on them...

Feel that they are trying to encroach too much on interceptor territory with that role bonus.

So, I’ll be perfectly honest and say I haven’t read the whole thread yet. I plan to do this tonight when I have more time. But looking at the bonuses, I want share my initial reaction:

AF’s should have a role distinct from tackle – right now it seems CCP is trying to make them a “tank and hold” alternative to “speed tank and hold” interceptors – the MWD bonus just screams of trying to force them into a tackle role, which is a shame.

The extra tracking speed leaves them bordering on OP, in my opinion. I think AF’s should fill a role of being ABLE to tackle a larger target (but still not as well as an Inty) but primarily be built around providing a heavy DPS role, same as HAC’s. The problem with the tracking boost as I see it as these than become FOTM along with new destroyers, leaving new weak points in the form of pirate and faction frigs.

AF’s should not be a one-size fits-all megafrigate. I fear that’s what they are headed towards. I always liked the lack of tracking because they made them sub-par for dogfighting and I think that frig-to-frig combat is still an area where Pirate and Faction frigs should really shine. Rock-paper-scissors and all that stuff. I think with AF’s you should have to know how to fly to get that DPS to apply – it should only melt frigates when you’re watching transversal and hitting that sweet spot, an Interceptor or Dramiel who’s managed to spiral in should be able to snag you and mitigate some damage without melting if he’s made a solid approach.

Whoever mentioned big-game hunting, this is spot on IMHO. An AF should be the perfect ship for pilots who want to prove what can be soloed in a frigate-sized ship – whether its PvE or PvP, AF’s should be able to engage a RANGE of target sizes and strengths while still being not the strongest in a direct frig-to-frig situation.

TL:DR In an ideal world (and this is completely my subjective opinion) I think Inty’s should be the MWD-bonused supertackle, AF’s should be a slow(er), lower tracking, tankier-than-normal frigate capable of putting out MASSIVE damage when flown carefully, but can still fall prey to the faction frigates, who should be the ultimate frig-on-frig choice for ace dogfighters.

I’m sure I’ve repeated the feedback of others who have said the same thing, or possibly offered up ideas already shot down by people with better reasons than I have atm, but that’s just my thoughts for now till I catch up on all the shop talk here.

A 6 low slot Retri seems like an arbitrary change. What are you trying to do with the ship?
If you wanted to make it a fearsome frigate killer, -1 low +1 mid would achieve that perfectly fine (and actually warrant an armor reduction given how powerful a Retribution with a web is).

I agree that it does need *something* more in the current state, but losing its utility high while gaining more EHP (or speed) is not what's needed.



I can tell you haven't flown this ship on SiSi against other AFs. It really does not need any boosts, let alone 50% more armor (on a ship with 5% armor resistances to begin with). Unlike the Retribution it's well suited to engage bigger targets and needs a small nos to combat neuts. Your suggestion creates an overpowered frigate-eating monster that's still somehow worse against bigger targets where AFs actually needed help. Bad.

Proposed change plus this.