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Planetary Interaction overhaul - the time has come
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LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#41 - 2016-08-11 19:46:04 UTC
Kalido Raddi wrote:
Having multiple PI toons - or even PI accounts - is common because PI not only scales well, but scales efficiently.

With one PI toon, you'll find yourself doing a lot of freighting to get the resources you need to build anything significant.

With multiple PI toons, you can base each PI toon in one or two systems, harvest what's good locally, and then only do freighting rarely.

The time investment per character actually goes down as the number of characters goes up. This is why the serious PI producers can have 15+ PI toons (and yes, I *do* know people with that many - there are probably people with more).


Do you think these players would be interested in an expansion of PI complexity, diversity, and functionality? Or do you think the mega-producers want it to stay the way it is?
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
#42 - 2016-08-11 20:31:45 UTC
LUH-3417 Ormand wrote:
Do you think these players would be interested in an expansion of PI complexity, diversity, and functionality? Or do you think the mega-producers want it to stay the way it is?

Oh large-scale producers will find ways to make ISK whatever you do. I don't think anyone would object to PI becoming a more engaging & varied form of gameplay though.

I'd like to see POCOs changed to be more in line with the new Citadels, so that they can be upgraded with different modules, that have various "Terraforming" effects on the planets surface, or change the way modules down there operate.

So a Lava Planet might be fitted (for example) with a "Tectonic Destabilizer Rig" that increases the rate at which Felsic Magma hotspots appear and the output from them, but have the drawback that they deplete and move around faster - so players using the planet have to manage their ECUs much more intensively.

Or you could fit the POCO/Citadel with an "Orbital Power Array Downlink Rig" that increases the PowerGrid of any Command Centres on Planet, but reduces their CPU.

Another idea would be a "Suborbital Transfer Routing Rig" that reduces the effect of distance on Links.

With things like this POCO owners would no longer be passive (these things would, of course, need fuel), but active and would have to manage their POCOs (or pay someone to do it for them).


A much smaller thing that needs to be added is BPOs for Command Centres. That's such an obvious change I can't believe it hasn't been done yet.
LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#43 - 2016-08-11 20:42:01 UTC
Kalido Raddi wrote:
...

I would also love to see fittings on POCOs. I LOVE the idea of terraforming modules! So good!
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#44 - 2016-08-11 20:48:43 UTC
@OP, ok thank you very much, I was wondering what da, LOL! So technically one account is 18 installations times two which would be two accounts then, thank you!
LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#45 - 2016-08-11 21:16:40 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
@OP, ok thank you very much, I was wondering what da, LOL! So technically one account is 18 installations times two which would be two accounts then, thank you!

There were actually two conversations going on. One was about multi-account PI setups.

The other was where I was suggesting an advanced skill that allows a character to run more colonies.

My intention in this was to incentivize PI multiboxers to consolidate their PI setups into a few toons instead of using so many. If the other skills that I propose were actually implemented, PI would become much more SP intensive, and would then be more difficult to master on multiple toons.

Giving a single toon access to a much larger number of colonies would be a tradeoff against it being so difficult to master PI on multiple toons.
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
#46 - 2016-08-12 00:23:24 UTC
The limiting factor on any PI setup is time, not ISK; any PI account easily pays for its own gametime via PLEX.

I can't see CCP taking any move that will reduce the number of accounts subbed.
LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#47 - 2016-08-12 01:18:39 UTC
Kalido Raddi wrote:
The limiting factor on any PI setup is time, not ISK; any PI account easily pays for its own gametime via PLEX.

I can't see CCP taking any move that will reduce the number of accounts subbed.


Agreed.

Although I doubt subs would go down from this. By default, each account generates SP for one toon at a time. By turning PI into an SP sink, you actually increase the market for injectors and MCTs. If I can increase total revenue generated on each account, while making the other two toons in my account available for other activities... I'm not going to drop an account. in fact, I might be more inclined to add an account. And then of course... you can always train up your other toons for PI as well...

Personally, my goal is to make PI competitive. In doing so, we create conflict in space. Plus, we can further pave the way for full DUST integration (hopefully that's still a goal). Create competition on the planet surface, and add functionality that allows players to create the DUST content whether there are DUST players or not. If PI players were already attacking each other with AI units, CCP would have all the content they need to allow DUST to grow organically WITHIN the EVE universe.

And if not... hey, at least PI would still be better, and a much larger SP sink.
Solecist Project
#48 - 2016-08-12 12:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
LUH-3417 Ormand wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
I guess he has at least six characters owning pi farms. It's reasonable to assume that a lot of people have several characters committed to PI just for the low-effort-rewards.

slowly i am starting to see the actual magnitutde of how much this game gears towards the lazy and inconvinienceables.

Is that a word? It should be a word!


I was suggesting an advanced skill that would allow more dedicated users to have more colonies. But I have heard of people allocating multiple toons for PI. I don't think it's a matter of laziness (in most cases), I think it's a matter of gameplay style. Not everyone is into PvP as dominant mode of play. Some people seek other methods of enjoying the game. I'm not much into PvP (seems like a waste of ISK), but I do enjoy the thrill of danger while lurking about in nullsec and kspace.

And I've never seen anyone use that word, so you are the first!

I have no idea how you managed to make that leap from lazy people to the rest you wrote.
Lazy people are lazy, it doesn't matter what activity they are lazy in.
They still demand conviniences which they shouldn't have.

Gameplay style is irrelevant to the game as a whole and being lazy by itself is not a style.

You're mixing two things that don't go together.


Anyhow, don't want to derwil. I am all for an overhaul that adds proper social dynamics and interaction and makes sure that those who deserve it have their POCOs and income. So: not everyone who thinks "i pay so i deserve it".

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-08-12 12:55:48 UTC
Somebody took over the POCOs in my area of PI ... and lowered the tax, I'm happy with this. Blink

Not so happy I'm with the crashing prices on half the stuff I produce ... Ugh

I'm my own NPC alt.
LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#50 - 2016-08-12 14:05:12 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
I have no idea how you managed to make that leap from lazy people to the rest you wrote.
Lazy people are lazy, it doesn't matter what activity they are lazy in.
They still demand conviniences which they shouldn't have.

Gameplay style is irrelevant to the game as a whole and being lazy by itself is not a style.

You're mixing two things that don't go together.


Anyhow, don't want to derwil. I am all for an overhaul that adds proper social dynamics and interaction and makes sure that those who deserve it have their POCOs and income. So: not everyone who thinks "i pay so i deserve it".
Sorry, I have a tendency to leapfrog topics.

Laziness is definitely a gaming style. It's where you spend more time whining in forums about how "things would be better if money just appeared in my account, and we need more teleporters" than you do actually playing a game. I don't care much for that gaming style either.

Glad you're on board!
LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#51 - 2016-08-16 16:56:36 UTC
I think that PI should produce all of the consumer goods that are currently seeded by the NPC market. And then colonies should require a certain amount of those consumer goods in order to continue running at max efficiency. Each planet should be capable of producing some of those goods on their own, but the "best" goods for that type of planet should always come from another planet type.

This would allow for a greater expansion of PI activity, while providing a nerf, or sink, for excessive PI production. Meanwhile, with enough skills and mastery, you should be able to streamline PI into a much more profitable activity than it currently is.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#52 - 2016-10-16 17:53:32 UTC
http://crossingzebras.com/we-need-to-talk-about-pi/

By Banden Lokemir - great article with 3 quality of life fixes Cool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
#53 - 2016-10-17 20:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Anke Eyrou
Nice to see a sensible discussion for once, however I am suprised an ISD has not moved this thread to 'Players Features and ideas discussions thread'.

I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.

Red lensman
BlackSky inc.
#54 - 2016-10-18 11:32:19 UTC
a lot of high sec custom offices are locked out for any one but the owners to use
Alessienne Ellecon
Doomheim
#55 - 2016-10-22 21:20:10 UTC
How about integration with citadels? You could launch commodities from the Command Centre to a citadel nearby (say within 5000km of the planet) load by load if you wanted to avoid an onerous POCO tax. This would be especially helpful if you're a P4 producer.

"CONCORD are the space cops. If you attack someone in a high-security solar system, CONCORD will commit police brutality." - Encyclopedia Dramatica

If EVE is a PvP game, then Anti-Ganking is emergent gameplay.
MarjoMecra
Les Pains aux Raisins
#56 - 2016-10-23 10:30:25 UTC
I would love to see something like "sim city" but for building a big PI chain on a planet.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#57 - 2016-10-23 10:53:19 UTC
Remember to design from the start with the ability to interfere with someone else's production in mind.

"Nice clean water source you have there. It would be a shame if someone polluted it."

"Nice space elevator you have there. It would be a shame if someone was to sabotage it."

Day 0 Advice for New Players
LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#58 - 2016-10-27 19:34:04 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
http://crossingzebras.com/we-need-to-talk-about-pi/

By Banden Lokemir - great article with 3 quality of life fixes Cool

Nice article. I like the proposed changes to the GUI. Does nothing to expand PI gameplay though... just pretty pictures and a little less clicking.

It really excited me to see CZ calling for a PI overhaul though. That's HUGE.

Thanks for sharing this!
LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#59 - 2016-10-27 19:36:33 UTC
Anke Eyrou wrote:
Nice to see a sensible discussion for once, however I am suprised an ISD has not moved this thread to 'Players Features and ideas discussions thread'.
I'm pretty sure that CCP, the DEVs, and the ISDs are avoiding PI like the plague. If they acknowledge this thread, they will no longer be able to pretend it doesn't exist... EvilEvilEvil
LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
#60 - 2016-10-27 19:40:25 UTC
Alessienne Ellecon wrote:
How about integration with citadels? You could launch commodities from the Command Centre to a citadel nearby (say within 5000km of the planet) load by load if you wanted to avoid an onerous POCO tax. This would be especially helpful if you're a P4 producer.
I like the idea of converting POCOs into Citidels. Earlier in the discussion it was also suggested that POCOs should be capable of fitting terraforming modules to help with raw planetary resource production.