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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1301 - 2016-08-10 06:09:24 UTC
Sandy Point wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Oh for God's sake. Yes, that is all veterans do...look for new players to just blow them up. Roll




I knew it!


Yes...I'm looking for you now.....

Actually, I just can't be arsed. I have invention stuff to do. Blowing up an ibis is so passe.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Signal11th
#1302 - 2016-08-10 07:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Plus plex being over a bill isn't going to help numbers, in fact in less than 18 hours this account becomes deactivated, always said I won't pay over a bill for plex and unfortunately it's happened so hopefully it will go under slightly sometime soon.

*edit* found one for 958 so extended for another month, phew.


I never understood this thinking. ATM you can get over 1 bil for $20 IRL, which is less than an hour's work. What in game can I do to earn 1 billion ISK in an hour? High plex prices are attractive. Anyone grinding ISK to plex an account doesn't understand the value of their time. Work literally 5 hours more IRL and you can fund your EVE-ing for months, and not have to mindlessly grind in game.



Because I'm old and pedantic, I set myself limits and stick to them, Plex goes over a bill I stop playing regardless of wether or not I can pay for it which I can do because I do on my other accounts but Signal was my first account and I always said as soon as I started if plex went over a bill that was it I would stop.

it's not the time or grind just the fact I can. Christ I spend 10 quid a day on crap anyway and 10 quid a month for EVE isn;t going to bother me one bit but it's not about the money. One bill for a plex is my line in the sand.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1303 - 2016-08-10 07:59:55 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Plus plex being over a bill isn't going to help numbers, in fact in less than 18 hours this account becomes deactivated, always said I won't pay over a bill for plex and unfortunately it's happened so hopefully it will go under slightly sometime soon.

*edit* found one for 958 so extended for another month, phew.


I never understood this thinking. ATM you can get over 1 bil for $20 IRL, which is less than an hour's work. What in game can I do to earn 1 billion ISK in an hour? High plex prices are attractive. Anyone grinding ISK to plex an account doesn't understand the value of their time. Work literally 5 hours more IRL and you can fund your EVE-ing for months, and not have to mindlessly grind in game.



Because I'm old and pedantic, I set myself limits and stick to them, Plex goes over a bill I stop playing regardless of wether or not I can pay for it which I can do because I do on my other accounts but Signal was my first account and I always said as soon as I started if plex went over a bill that was it I would stop.

it's not the time or grind just the fact I can. Christ I spend 10 quid a day on crap anyway and 10 quid a month for EVE isn;t going to bother me one bit but it's not about the money. One bill for a plex is my line in the sand.


Okay, so you just set a rather irrational limit. Thanks for sharing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Signal11th
#1304 - 2016-08-10 08:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Teckos Pech wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Plus plex being over a bill isn't going to help numbers, in fact in less than 18 hours this account becomes deactivated, always said I won't pay over a bill for plex and unfortunately it's happened so hopefully it will go under slightly sometime soon.

*edit* found one for 958 so extended for another month, phew.


I never understood this thinking. ATM you can get over 1 bil for $20 IRL, which is less than an hour's work. What in game can I do to earn 1 billion ISK in an hour? High plex prices are attractive. Anyone grinding ISK to plex an account doesn't understand the value of their time. Work literally 5 hours more IRL and you can fund your EVE-ing for months, and not have to mindlessly grind in game.



Because I'm old and pedantic, I set myself limits and stick to them, Plex goes over a bill I stop playing regardless of wether or not I can pay for it which I can do because I do on my other accounts but Signal was my first account and I always said as soon as I started if plex went over a bill that was it I would stop.

it's not the time or grind just the fact I can. Christ I spend 10 quid a day on crap anyway and 10 quid a month for EVE isn;t going to bother me one bit but it's not about the money. One bill for a plex is my line in the sand.


Okay, so you just set a rather irrational limit. Thanks for sharing.


They asked I gave an explanation, not for you to judge not that it matters to me one bit. All the reasons there are less users are valid regardless of their "irrationality"

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1305 - 2016-08-10 08:19:53 UTC
Signal11th wrote:


They asked I gave an explanation, not for you to judge not that it matters to me one bit. All the reasons there are less users are valid regardless of their "irrationality"


Even if, after taxes, you make $5/hour it would take you something like 29 hours to pay for an entire years subscription with RL money. I doubt in those 29 hours you could make enough ISK to pay as much game time via PLEX.

Let's assume a 900 million ISK price for PLEX. So to pay for an entire year you would need 12*900 ISK, or 10.8 billion ISK. Or you'd need to make 372.5 million ISK/hour to pay for an entire year of playing.

Clearly that appears to be a problem, and since you are not unemployed with a large endowment of leisure time...why are you continuing for the least efficient method of payment?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Signal11th
#1306 - 2016-08-10 08:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Teckos Pech wrote:
Signal11th wrote:


They asked I gave an explanation, not for you to judge not that it matters to me one bit. All the reasons there are less users are valid regardless of their "irrationality"


Even if, after taxes, you make $5/hour it would take you something like 29 hours to pay for an entire years subscription with RL money. I doubt in those 29 hours you could make enough ISK to pay as much game time via PLEX.

Let's assume a 900 million ISK price for PLEX. So to pay for an entire year you would need 12*900 ISK, or 10.8 billion ISK. Or you'd need to make 372.5 million ISK/hour to pay for an entire year of playing.

Clearly that appears to be a problem, and since you are not unemployed with a large endowment of leisure time...why are you continuing for the least efficient method of payment?


Well at current exchange rates I make £28/$42 pounds/dollars an hour (before tax) but as I mentioned its not about the cost it's about a line I set myself which has been met and I'm not willing to cross it, stubborn, pendantic, irrational yes but that's the just the way it is.
If plex stays over a bill for 6 months/1 year/forever then that's the amount of time this account stays deactivated.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Solecist Project
#1307 - 2016-08-10 09:01:37 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Signal11th wrote:


They asked I gave an explanation, not for you to judge not that it matters to me one bit. All the reasons there are less users are valid regardless of their "irrationality"


Even if, after taxes, you make $5/hour it would take you something like 29 hours to pay for an entire years subscription with RL money. I doubt in those 29 hours you could make enough ISK to pay as much game time via PLEX.

Let's assume a 900 million ISK price for PLEX. So to pay for an entire year you would need 12*900 ISK, or 10.8 billion ISK. Or you'd need to make 372.5 million ISK/hour to pay for an entire year of playing.

Clearly that appears to be a problem, and since you are not unemployed with a large endowment of leisure time...why are you continuing for the least efficient method of payment?

Because he's greedy and only does things that - in his eyes - aren't worth it.
Which tells us a lot about him too, I guess.


And while the parrots sing "it doesn't matter, plex is paid" ...
... it's actually "two people paying real money to play is better than one"

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Signal11th
#1308 - 2016-08-10 09:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Solecist Project wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Signal11th wrote:


They asked I gave an explanation, not for you to judge not that it matters to me one bit. All the reasons there are less users are valid regardless of their "irrationality"


Even if, after taxes, you make $5/hour it would take you something like 29 hours to pay for an entire years subscription with RL money. I doubt in those 29 hours you could make enough ISK to pay as much game time via PLEX.

Let's assume a 900 million ISK price for PLEX. So to pay for an entire year you would need 12*900 ISK, or 10.8 billion ISK. Or you'd need to make 372.5 million ISK/hour to pay for an entire year of playing.

Clearly that appears to be a problem, and since you are not unemployed with a large endowment of leisure time...why are you continuing for the least efficient method of payment?

Because he's greedy and only does things that - in his eyes - aren't worth it.
Which tells us a lot about him too, I guess.


And while the parrots sing "it doesn't matter, plex is paid" ...
... it's actually "two people paying real money to play is better than one"


Your post actually doesn't make any sense at all. As for greed you couldn't be any further from the truth. Since when does having a set limit ever indicate greed? Surely it's the opposite.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Solecist Project
#1309 - 2016-08-10 09:33:28 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Signal11th wrote:


They asked I gave an explanation, not for you to judge not that it matters to me one bit. All the reasons there are less users are valid regardless of their "irrationality"


Even if, after taxes, you make $5/hour it would take you something like 29 hours to pay for an entire years subscription with RL money. I doubt in those 29 hours you could make enough ISK to pay as much game time via PLEX.

Let's assume a 900 million ISK price for PLEX. So to pay for an entire year you would need 12*900 ISK, or 10.8 billion ISK. Or you'd need to make 372.5 million ISK/hour to pay for an entire year of playing.

Clearly that appears to be a problem, and since you are not unemployed with a large endowment of leisure time...why are you continuing for the least efficient method of payment?

Because he's greedy and only does things that - in his eyes - aren't worth it.
Which tells us a lot about him too, I guess.


And while the parrots sing "it doesn't matter, plex is paid" ...
... it's actually "two people paying real money to play is better than one"


Your post actually doesn't make any sense at all. As for greed you couldn't be any further from the truth. Since when does having a set limit ever indicate greed? Surely it's the opposite.

You're right. I need food before posting. Sorry.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1310 - 2016-08-10 16:57:52 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Signal11th wrote:


They asked I gave an explanation, not for you to judge not that it matters to me one bit. All the reasons there are less users are valid regardless of their "irrationality"


Even if, after taxes, you make $5/hour it would take you something like 29 hours to pay for an entire years subscription with RL money. I doubt in those 29 hours you could make enough ISK to pay as much game time via PLEX.

Let's assume a 900 million ISK price for PLEX. So to pay for an entire year you would need 12*900 ISK, or 10.8 billion ISK. Or you'd need to make 372.5 million ISK/hour to pay for an entire year of playing.

Clearly that appears to be a problem, and since you are not unemployed with a large endowment of leisure time...why are you continuing for the least efficient method of payment?


Well at current exchange rates I make £28/$42 pounds/dollars an hour (before tax) but as I mentioned its not about the cost it's about a line I set myself which has been met and I'm not willing to cross it, stubborn, pendantic, irrational yes but that's the just the way it is.
If plex stays over a bill for 6 months/1 year/forever then that's the amount of time this account stays deactivated.


Okay, so your "reasoning" is similar to the following:

You'll stop swimming so long as the price of gasoline is over $4/gallon (or the equivalent there in the UK).

Yes, that makes so much sense now. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1311 - 2016-08-10 17:00:53 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Signal11th wrote:


They asked I gave an explanation, not for you to judge not that it matters to me one bit. All the reasons there are less users are valid regardless of their "irrationality"


Even if, after taxes, you make $5/hour it would take you something like 29 hours to pay for an entire years subscription with RL money. I doubt in those 29 hours you could make enough ISK to pay as much game time via PLEX.

Let's assume a 900 million ISK price for PLEX. So to pay for an entire year you would need 12*900 ISK, or 10.8 billion ISK. Or you'd need to make 372.5 million ISK/hour to pay for an entire year of playing.

Clearly that appears to be a problem, and since you are not unemployed with a large endowment of leisure time...why are you continuing for the least efficient method of payment?

Because he's greedy and only does things that - in his eyes - aren't worth it.
Which tells us a lot about him too, I guess.


And while the parrots sing "it doesn't matter, plex is paid" ...
... it's actually "two people paying real money to play is better than one"


Your post actually doesn't make any sense at all. As for greed you couldn't be any further from the truth. Since when does having a set limit ever indicate greed? Surely it's the opposite.


I might add neither does yours.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Galaxy Chicken
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#1312 - 2016-08-10 18:57:35 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Socialites who mine to pay for "Chat Room Online" aren't hurting anybody...


Exactly! They aren't hurting anybody!

I don't know about you, but I simply cannot abide that.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1313 - 2016-08-10 18:58:56 UTC
Galaxy Chicken wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Socialites who mine to pay for "Chat Room Online" aren't hurting anybody...


Exactly! They aren't hurting anybody!

I don't know about you, but I simply cannot abide that.

Well neither can Herzog - you 2 should get together and form a club.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1314 - 2016-08-10 19:12:03 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Galaxy Chicken wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Socialites who mine to pay for "Chat Room Online" aren't hurting anybody...


Exactly! They aren't hurting anybody!

I don't know about you, but I simply cannot abide that.

Well neither can Herzog - you 2 should get together and form a club.



Still failing to understand me I see.


It's Ok. Not everybody has the power to understand things well. This is why I hate democracy too.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#1315 - 2016-08-10 19:12:48 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Because I'm old and pedantic, I set myself limits and stick to them, Plex goes over a bill I stop playing regardless of wether or not I can pay for it which I can do because I do on my other accounts but Signal was my first account and I always said as soon as I started if plex went over a bill that was it I would stop.

it's not the time or grind just the fact I can. Christ I spend 10 quid a day on crap anyway and 10 quid a month for EVE isn;t going to bother me one bit but it's not about the money. One bill for a plex is my line in the sand.


Do whatever you want, but grinding for plex (assuming you don't enjoy grinding) is a waste of the most valuable resource a person has: time
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1316 - 2016-08-10 19:19:20 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Still failing to understand me I see.


It's Ok. Not everybody has the power to understand things well. This is why I hate democracy too.

We can only read the words you write down - which were pretty explicit: Combat Combat Combat - everybody who doesn't do combat? Replace them with NPCs. The game shouldn't have them - they are victims and they set a bad example.

I defy you to point to anything you have written in this discussion that disagrees with my analysis of your views. Please note, you've already been quoted - so editing your old posts does not count.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Galaxy Chicken
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#1317 - 2016-08-10 19:31:00 UTC
Well if you hate democracy, you're not going to fit into New Highsec.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1318 - 2016-08-10 20:19:13 UTC
And this is why I'm always on the run.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1319 - 2016-08-10 20:42:27 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Still failing to understand me I see.


It's Ok. Not everybody has the power to understand things well. This is why I hate democracy too.

We can only read the words you write down - which were pretty explicit: Combat Combat Combat - everybody who doesn't do combat? Replace them with NPCs. The game shouldn't have them - they are victims and they set a bad example.

I defy you to point to anything you have written in this discussion that disagrees with my analysis of your views. Please note, you've already been quoted - so editing your old posts does not count.



I have not edited a thing. All I said was that if I were involved in the creation of Eve Online I would have made it so that mining and hauling were done by NPCs that players would hire and equip. I made it clear that this was a theoretical approach, a "had I been there from the start" concept.

Where you got the idea that I want the present game to change and non-combatant players kicked out or told to change I have no idea. But possibly you have played in the "hurr durr I'm a PVPer and people want me nerfed" mindset so long that your filter is clogged and you will, like many of your ilk, always be combative so when a concept is fielded that does not comprise a threat, you still take it as a threat. You even accuse me editing posts as if trying to change it.

But I have no reason to change it and stand by it: If I were involved in the creation of Eve Online every player would be a PVPer and all industrial tasks performed by NPCs that players would pay to hire and equip, and then have to defend from other players.

But again, it's nothing new in the forums. But I sense you want confrontation, probably because the game is lacking in it for the reasons this thread exists.

I will wait for you to deploy some reading comprehension skills and point out where I said that existing miners and haulers need to be removed from the existing Eve Online game.

Considering your belligerent nature I won't be holding my breath.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1320 - 2016-08-10 20:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I will wait for you to deploy some reading comprehension skills and point out where I said that existing miners and haulers need to be removed from the existing Eve Online game.
OK then:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Why should every EVE player have to be a thrill-seeker or adrenaline junkie?

Socialites who mine to pay for "Chat Room Online" aren't hurting anybody - they are making at least a small contribution to the game (arguably more in keeping others interested than in the minerals they provide, but whatever)... Why try to force them out of the game?

Similarly the hard-core miners...what is wrong with them? These are the sorts of players who enjoy playing Minecraft without using any cheat-codes or modifications to make the game easier (they might mod it to make it harder). The sort who will actually excavate and mine until they *find* 10,000 diamonds to build a palace out of - just because they enjoy the process. Why should these players not have a place in EVE?

Even the AFK miners aren't *hurting* the game significantly...even if they don't add anything to it...

The only miners who are any kind of a problem are bots...and CCP has taken steps to minimize their impact as well. I would argue that botting carrier-ratters in 0.0 have a far greater impact in the modern EVE than botting miners do...and even that is fairly nonexistent for the most part.

If you want thrills and adventure and content...Then get out there and do the things that provide that. There is no reason mining has to be one of them...



As for your "Only Combat Ships" proposal, because "It's a PVP Game!"...I have a few things to say.....

#1) This is an odd sentiment for, if I recall correctly, an anti-ganker?

#2) Yes, in terms of PvP *Combat* content, the miners are sheep. However, most *good* miners who stick with EVE (and there are a surprisingly large number) find ways to deal with Combat players without unduly disrupting their mining operations. This is all part of the game - and I see no reason to punish them or remove their play-style just because they aren't dealing with Combat in the way you wish they would... Some people can't handle it, and they will quit - as long as they are the minority and/or they get replaced by new recruits, the game won't even notice. When that balance is upset - THAT is when CCP acts to change the game...but not to chase the rest of the miners out of the game - they only act to try to bring more players in, whatever form they may take.


#3) PvP DOES NOT ONLY MEAN COMBAT!!!

Seriously, get it through your thick skulls. PvP can take many forms - they do NOT all require weaponry or open combat. EVE is 100% a PvP game - *NOT* 100% a Combat game. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

Trust me, an active miner who collects a ton of ore and then speed-sells it at a rock-bottom price that crashes an entire market sector will draw far more tears than any PvP player killing a miner...Even if he never hears the crying/whining directly.

**** - even just mining out an ice belt before the other miners get a chance to get any will net you a boat-load of tears. PvP takes *many* forms.



I had a friend like you some years ago. We called him "Conan the Contrarian". Unlike the Barbarian counterpart he needed to hit the gym.

I stopped reading when you showed your assumption that anti-ganking means anti-PVP. That display of ignorance is all I needed to know about the value of your opinions.

There you go. I posted a nice long post not even directly attacking you, merely pointing out that mining and other non-combat forms of playing EVE are a valid part of the game - and that I feel it is important for people to have the option to participate in them.

And your reply was that my opinion was worthless because I found your proposal to remove them all from the game strange, and you refused to read my points beyond that.

From this I naturally concluded that you *disagreed* with my point that mining and other non-combat play-styles are a valid way to play EVE.



If that was your way of saying I was right - then I'm sorry, but we are not speaking the same language...



edit: Additionally since that post you have been attacking me repeatedly, very strongly implying that you *disagreed* with me that miners and other non-combatants should be allowed to play EVE...

You may not have explicitly stated it, but you made it pretty clear that I was a horrible person for daring to suggest they have a place in the game, and I believe I drew the logical conclusion from your angry ranting.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)