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[Proposal] Buff to Loot Drops Across the Board
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#21 - 2016-08-06 13:35:33 UTC
Dane Ge wrote:

When I solo I only fly t1 frigates, I have no problem affording these. What I do have a problem affording is ratting/exploration and fleet fits that allow me to fleet up with my corp and other friends who usually have a specific fleet doctrine in mind and bringing along a t1 frigate is not allowed or just gets primaried the first engagement.


Ok. so if your corp flies super caps the game should change so you can afford to fly a supercap regularly? The line has to be drawn somewhere and thats around the T1 cruiser/BC level for newer players.

If they fly doctrines then ask for a ship replacement program (srp) or failing that a poor mans version of their doctrine ship. Ratting fleets are rarely 'bring this or gtfo'. If they are so exclusive, are they nooby friendly? Should you be in that corp?

Steady income sources:
Missioning
Mining
Planetary interaction

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Peppermintstix
Exsilium Militaris
#22 - 2016-08-07 07:56:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Peppermintstix
No no no no no no no no no no.


a year or 2 ago ccp increased the chance for an escalation from anom's... they more then doubled it from what i can tell and by doing so caused what was a 4 billion isk drop from a blood 10/10 to be worth almost less then 1 billion today.

There are to many people doing escalations, that coupled with the fact that a lot of people are finally doing 0.0 NPC missions is driving the price of x-type loot and blueprints into the ground


If anything they need to reverse the change to escalations and force the price back up.


Your also doing ****** 4/5 of 10s... get into a good corp.. train your skills up and start doing 6/10's where the most expensive drop you can get is.. the a-type ENAMS or Invuls... 800 million+ each.. but everything else.. all the x-type gear from the 10/10's seriously depressed.. infact more then not the most expensive thing i get is a rattlesnake blueprint.

i remember days where a 10/10 would get you a billion or 2... now its like you won the lottery if it drops 500 million
Solecist Project
#23 - 2016-08-07 23:27:40 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
This is only true if the highest incomes change actually.
If incomes between professions are instead more equitable actually what happens is the economy gets healthier overall because everyone is able to spend money rather than just a few people who are sitting on top of the food chain.

this is perfectly accurate.
if there is more money available, people buy more things from each other, boosting local and regional economy.

and it fully applies to eve online as well.

More people spending more money in the same unit of time as before ...
... meaning they buy more and possibly different products ...
... applying more pressure on the supply side of things ...
... which means to lower priced ones get removed from the market faster.

it would not happen in a town of 2000 people where local production is king ...
... but this is EVE and here it happens.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Cade Windstalker
#24 - 2016-08-08 18:20:49 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
This is only true if the highest incomes change actually.
If incomes between professions are instead more equitable actually what happens is the economy gets healthier overall because everyone is able to spend money rather than just a few people who are sitting on top of the food chain.

this is perfectly accurate.
if there is more money available, people buy more things from each other, boosting local and regional economy.

and it fully applies to eve online as well.

More people spending more money in the same unit of time as before ...
... meaning they buy more and possibly different products ...
... applying more pressure on the supply side of things ...
... which means to lower priced ones get removed from the market faster.

it would not happen in a town of 2000 people where local production is king ...
... but this is EVE and here it happens.


Both this and the comment you're quoting make a lot of assumptions about relative buying power, the effects of supply, and how that extra income is created. For example if we do what OP wants and just massively boost drop rates for items then that only increases the generation of money if demand is still ahead of supply by some margin. If you get supply in excess of demand then the price crashes and everyone ends up making less money due to people selling a product that the market can't absorb. We've seen this happen with a lot of faction hulls over the last 5 or so years.

Obviously there would be some increase in demand as prices drop, but any buff that could be qualified as "massive" would almost certainly drop prices to the point where if there even is an increase in earnings it's minimal. Plus there's a strong possibility that an increase in demand for higher end drops would be offset by a heavy drop off in demand for lower end ones, further dropping income from those groups of drops.
Solecist Project
#25 - 2016-08-08 22:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
you mean so massive its gonna flood the markets?
that wouldnt happen. CCP would kmow and not do that, right?

they hate that.

if they add a single item to everyones loot ...
... it would mean they add at least (!) one item per loot instance found per given day.

that´s tens of thousands of people.
several tens of thousands of wrecks.

So for members of corps like pro synergy who literally clean up space...
... that would make quite a difference already, depending on the drop itself ofc.

not to mention all the mission runners.

and industry.


and thats why we can´t have more loot.

industry. t1 blaster, 20k.
throwaway-cheap.



Dear OP,
if you revamp your idea towards introduction of new types of loot ...
... to not cause any changes market- or otherwise ...
... then that would be fine.

the question then is: what !

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2016-08-09 00:20:42 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
RNG is R

And, as you yourself say, if you increase supply, the market value of them will simply fall. What would be the point, in that case?


Not necessarily... To take an extreme example, if the demand is perfectly elastic the price won't change at all, so in that case it would result in more ISK for mission runners. So it could result in more ISK even without this restrictive assumption.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Cade Windstalker
#27 - 2016-08-09 15:24:17 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
RNG is R

And, as you yourself say, if you increase supply, the market value of them will simply fall. What would be the point, in that case?


Not necessarily... To take an extreme example, if the demand is perfectly elastic the price won't change at all, so in that case it would result in more ISK for mission runners. So it could result in more ISK even without this restrictive assumption.


This is a patently ridiculous assumption to make though. There are almost no goods that are perfectly elastic in real life at large scale, and I can't think of anything that behaves like that in Eve. Certainly nothing that is in the realm OP is talking about, which is largely faction and Deadspace loot drops from scan sites.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2016-08-09 17:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
RNG is R

And, as you yourself say, if you increase supply, the market value of them will simply fall. What would be the point, in that case?


Not necessarily... To take an extreme example, if the demand is perfectly elastic the price won't change at all, so in that case it would result in more ISK for mission runners. So it could result in more ISK even without this restrictive assumption.


This is a patently ridiculous assumption to make though. There are almost no goods that are perfectly elastic in real life at large scale, and I can't think of anything that behaves like that in Eve. Certainly nothing that is in the realm OP is talking about, which is largely faction and Deadspace loot drops from scan sites.


Which was why I had the last sentence. Basically, the effect on price would depend on the elasticity of demand. It is possible that the decrease in price is less than the decrease in amount of loot thus enriching people who are going after loot drops.

And actually, in a competitive market, firms behave as if the price is perfectly elastic--i.e. price is given and firms have no influence over it, so not that ridiculous assumption. If anything the assumption that demand is such that any change in quantity is met with just the right change in price to negate the increase in quantity in terms of value is extremely restrictive.

To be clear, for the price response to exactly offset the change in quantity there is an implicit assumption of unit elasticity, which is no more crazy an assumption that perfect elasticity.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Cade Windstalker
#29 - 2016-08-10 01:42:13 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Which was why I had the last sentence. Basically, the effect on price would depend on the elasticity of demand. It is possible that the decrease in price is less than the decrease in amount of loot thus enriching people who are going after loot drops.

And actually, in a competitive market, firms behave as if the price is perfectly elastic--i.e. price is given and firms have no influence over it, so not that ridiculous assumption. If anything the assumption that demand is such that any change in quantity is met with just the right change in price to negate the increase in quantity in terms of value is extremely restrictive.

To be clear, for the price response to exactly offset the change in quantity there is an implicit assumption of unit elasticity, which is no more crazy an assumption that perfect elasticity.


The only case where the price doesn't change in response to a change in supply is in a good with perfectly elastic demand, in every other case there is at least some change, and Eve has a long history (especially with Deadspace items) of prices changing in response to supply and demand.

I specifically mentioned that there might be a point where the increase in supply results in a net increase in profits, but given what the OP is requesting I don't believe that lies anywhere within what he's asking for, since he wants enough drops to make RNG's impact on his income negligible. There's also strong evidence that Deadspace loot is highly elastic, based on how the price has changed over time and how changes in the meta have changed the price of certain items.

Lastly, no, an assumption of price elasticity is not a crazy assumption. The only thing I'm assuming is that there is some elasticity, which there is ample evidence for, and there's also evidence that a flood in the availability of a deadspace drop does cause its price to drop dramatically. We can see this by looking at historical price graphs (eve-markets is great for this) and matching it to patches which have either changed the modules or changed their drop rates.
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#30 - 2016-08-10 07:42:36 UTC
Dane Ge wrote:

FINAL EDIT: TOPIC CLOSED ILL GO **** MYSELF THANKS

Wow...

Fail at PVE, PVP and forum warfare - just sad.
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-08-10 10:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
Dane Ge wrote:
It's like no one read my initial post. I specifically stated that I know this would happen if the SAME loot is increased in how much it drops. What they could do is offer a wider variety of modules available from each site, or introduce new items like the Overseer Personal Effects which have market value as they are used for industry or can be broken down for building materials. Or they could simply offer a bounty reward for completing the site, DED or Relic/Data or even anomolies instead of just the rat bounties.

You suggest a wider variety of modules but still an increased number, this will still lead to a greater number of each individual item dropping:
. If site A currently drops 1 x Item A and site B currently drop 1 x Item B, running both sites would net 1 of each.
. If you change it so that both sites drop 1 x Item A and 1 x Item B, running both sites would net 2 of each.

You suggest adding new items that can be reprocessed for minerals, but that result in increased supply of those minerals, which results in lower mineral prices and screws over the miners. Exactly the opposite effect as to why CCP nerfed the loot drop rate in the first place.

You suggest blindly adding money to the payout as a bounty. That leads to inflation and the shiny things you want to buy get more expensive as more people try to buy them and demand outstrips supply. So you now have the 25M to buy that ship you wanted, except it now costs 40M.
Mark Hadden
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#32 - 2016-08-10 10:18:54 UTC
buffing loot tables wouldnt help you at all, as the prices for the items will plummet even lower. Just look at faction BS prices and dead space items atm. X-types are worth ****, so rattlesnakes, machariels, bhaalgorns or vindicators.
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