These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Ore-hold optimiser rigs.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2016-08-09 17:08:38 UTC
Chronos Thiesant wrote:
Now that's the history lesson over, let's get to your idea. Every time CCP has brought out modules to increase a certain stat (eg. Cargo), they nerf the base stats so that you must use the new modules to have the same cargo you had before. Freighter EHP is a good example of this.

Quoting for emphasis.

The DEVs rarely give straight buffs to any ship unless it outright sucks in all ways.

How did you Veterans start?
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#22 - 2016-08-10 03:39:01 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Chronos Thiesant wrote:
Now that's the history lesson over, let's get to your idea. Every time CCP has brought out modules to increase a certain stat (eg. Cargo), they nerf the base stats so that you must use the new modules to have the same cargo you had before. Freighter EHP is a good example of this.

Quoting for emphasis.

The DEVs rarely give straight buffs to any ship unless it outright sucks in all ways.


The precedence you both are citing is quite a bit different. Freighters previously had no slots whatsoever. I would need to go back and look at the freighter rebalance thread itself to see if the introduction of slots to freighters:

1. Precipitated in a nerf to EHP
2. Precipitated in a nerf to align time
3. Precipitated in a nerf to cargo hold size

All at the same time. Also worth mentioning that freighter/jumpfreighter cargo holds are general storage with no limits on what fits inside. So for me at least without knowing all of the relevant info it seems a bit of a joke to compare the two things on a like for like basis. Maybe you're right I don't know but we will find out.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#23 - 2016-08-10 06:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
The precedence you both are citing is quite a bit different.

... (snip)...

So for me at least without knowing all of the relevant info it seems a bit of a joke to compare the two things on a like for like basis.

Not exactly.

History has shown that, again, the DEVs rarely give straight buffs to any ship unless there is a general consensus that said ship is pretty much bad in all respects.

Otherwise, they buff some stats and nerf others.

If you look through some of the other threads for rebalancing ships, you will see that some ships that receive new slot configurations (specifically low slots) tend to have their agility and/or max speed reduced.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Freighters previously had no slots whatsoever. I would need to go back and look at the freighter rebalance thread itself to see if the introduction of slots to freighters:

1. Precipitated in a nerf to EHP
2. Precipitated in a nerf to align time
3. Precipitated in a nerf to cargo hold size

All at the same time.

Here it is.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4605252

Freighters had the following done to them:
- nerf to hull HP, buffs to armor and shield HP (net buff overall, but rationalized that it is needed so Freighters are not "paper thin" when fitting Cargohold Expanders)
- no change to agility, but this is because Reinforced Bulkheads reduce agility
- cargo capacity nerfed

Jump freighters are a mixed bag. Some nerfs, some buffs.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Also worth mentioning that freighter/jumpfreighter cargo holds are general storage with no limits on what fits inside.

Because it is a general cargo ship. It has no specialized bays.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
So for me at least without knowing all of the relevant info it seems a bit of a joke to compare the two things on a like for like basis.

You are missing the point.

The DEVs gave mining barges Ore Holds so miners would not have to choose between tank, yield, or cargo capacity... or jetcans. Which was one of the main complaints that miners had regarding the ships.

So the DEVs gave mining ships Ore Holds... which were larger than the original cargoholds of barges.

The tradeoff for this is that Ore Holds, like any other specialized holds, are not affected by Cargohold Expanders (which was rationalized by the DEVs as they did not want people to use Mining ships as faux industrial ships).

The original DEV Blog on the mining ship changes.



tldr; looking at the changes that have happened to other ships over years, it is foolish to think that the DEVs would not nerf the Ore Hold if Cargohold Expanders were changed to affect them.

There are also wider ramifications to consider as well.

Would Cargohold Expanders be modified to affect other specialized bays as well? Like Ship Maintenance Bays?
Those would have to be looked at as well... and most likely nerfed to maintain balance.

How did you Veterans start?
Previous page12