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CCP baiting us on a free can....Vehemently opposed to the Vehement
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Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#41 - 2016-08-08 09:28:08 UTC
I want an Angel Cartel super carrier which looks like a cross between a huge mach and a hel which can kite machariel fleets with fighter bombers which are big dramiels

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Solecist Project
#42 - 2016-08-08 12:43:48 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
I want an Angel Cartel super carrier which looks like a cross between a huge mach and a hel which can kite machariel fleets with fighter bombers which are big dramiels

I want an angel cartel mining barge.

Just think about it, it'll look like a cow!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Rawthorm
The Establishment
#43 - 2016-08-08 13:02:13 UTC
Personally I'm not as bothered about the ISK value of the increased build cost (Even if it is completely out of wack with reality) as I am about the dangerous precedent the inflated build itself cost sets. Up until this point the additional cost for building a faction ship came from it's BPC. This is true from say a Navy Hookbill all the way up to a Vindicator. Even the Revenant (Sansha Super) has a very respectable build cost with almost all it's expense coming from the scarcity of the BPC's.

The build cost of the Serpentis capitals fly's in the face of over a decades worth of build cost conventions being fairly universal across the board and highlights a serious risk of future faction content being for the insanely space wealthy as opposed to just those willing to work a bit harder. I feel quite sad that this may be the first time in over a decade that the hunger for RL bucks has trumped solid and well established in game conventions.
Solecist Project
#44 - 2016-08-08 13:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Rawthorm wrote:
a serious risk of future faction content being for the insanely space wealthy as opposed to just those willing to work a bit harder. I feel quite sad that this may be the first time in over a decade that the hunger for RL bucks has trumped solid and well established in game conventions.


I don't see anything indicating that this is about rl money.

Those who just "work a bit harder" might not be the ones who deserve them.
I know that sounds harsh, sorry, but where is room in this meta for everyone who "works a bit harder"?
Wealth and assets accumulate very easily! The lazy ones of next week seem like the harder working of the last.

In the end it would be boring anyway if everyone could afford them ...
... and it would devalueing them significantly.

Rarity ensures everyone's either proud to have one ...
... or proud to have killed one.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Rawthorm
The Establishment
#45 - 2016-08-08 13:52:03 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Rawthorm wrote:
a serious risk of future faction content being for the insanely space wealthy as opposed to just those willing to work a bit harder. I feel quite sad that this may be the first time in over a decade that the hunger for RL bucks has trumped solid and well established in game conventions.


I don't see anything indicating that this is about rl money.


Maybe not directly, but a grind fest event paired with the first move away from established patterns in faction build cost give a good idea at the corner of the user base this event is aimed at.

Solecist Project wrote:
Those who just "work a bit harder" might not be the ones who deserve them.
I know that sounds harsh, sorry, but where is room in this meta for everyone who "works a bit harder"?
Wealth and assets accumulate very easily! The lazy ones of next week seem like the harder working of the last.

In the end it would be boring anyway if everyone could afford them ...
... and it would devalueing them significantly.

Rarity ensures everyone's either proud to have one ...
... or proud to have killed one.


Oh I agree that working harder for something isn't necessarily the ideal barrier to entry. I mean just look at Titan proliferation. However extreme cost and rarity is what the Alliance Tourny is for. Faction ships have a well established cost formula and this isn't an area that CCP should tip on its head on a whim (unless they intend to x20 the cost of all faction ships so it at least matches)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2016-08-08 14:17:45 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Can we get a tl;dr before this gets locked?


***** expensive and OP is a peasant.
Solecist Project
#47 - 2016-08-08 14:23:17 UTC
My best guess is that they're trying to experiment with implementing long time goals ...
... trying a slight shift of culture away from instant-gratification-thinking.

It's a possibility.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Revis Owen
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#48 - 2016-08-08 14:44:33 UTC
Celeste Coeval wrote:
rabble rabble PvE content rabble rabble


PvP content is where the excitement and fun really are. Eve is an MMO. Embrace it. PvE is for single-player gamers, really.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2016-08-08 14:54:23 UTC
Revis Owen wrote:
Celeste Coeval wrote:
rabble rabble PvE content rabble rabble


PvP content is where the excitement and fun really are. Eve is an MMO. Embrace it. PvE is for single-player gamers, really.


Does shooting the gate rats while camping count as PvE?

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#50 - 2016-08-08 14:57:54 UTC
Way to be OP.

Not today spaghetti.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#51 - 2016-08-08 15:31:15 UTC
Rawthorm wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Rawthorm wrote:
a serious risk of future faction content being for the insanely space wealthy as opposed to just those willing to work a bit harder. I feel quite sad that this may be the first time in over a decade that the hunger for RL bucks has trumped solid and well established in game conventions.


I don't see anything indicating that this is about rl money.


Maybe not directly, but a grind fest event paired with the first move away from established patterns in faction build cost give a good idea at the corner of the user base this event is aimed at.

Solecist Project wrote:
Those who just "work a bit harder" might not be the ones who deserve them.
I know that sounds harsh, sorry, but where is room in this meta for everyone who "works a bit harder"?
Wealth and assets accumulate very easily! The lazy ones of next week seem like the harder working of the last.

In the end it would be boring anyway if everyone could afford them ...
... and it would devalueing them significantly.

Rarity ensures everyone's either proud to have one ...
... or proud to have killed one.


Oh I agree that working harder for something isn't necessarily the ideal barrier to entry. I mean just look at Titan proliferation. However extreme cost and rarity is what the Alliance Tourny is for. Faction ships have a well established cost formula and this isn't an area that CCP should tip on its head on a whim (unless they intend to x20 the cost of all faction ships so it at least matches)


But your assumption is that these costs will stay static despite the fact that we currently only have prices and drop rates based on the event. It could be that CCP plans to bring things inline post event with their initial goal being high cost to balance the open nature of the event.
Rawthorm
The Establishment
#52 - 2016-08-08 16:15:30 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:

But your assumption is that these costs will stay static despite the fact that we currently only have prices and drop rates based on the event. It could be that CCP plans to bring things inline post event with their initial goal being high cost to balance the open nature of the event.


I think my assumption is pretty valid. CCP is well practiced in douche bag maneuvers, but I cant see them waiting until after some are built to make the cost reasonable. If I was that guy that had just laid out 30+ billion to build one, only to find CCP drops the build cost a week later down to normal dread levels I'd be pretty pissed and with good reason.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#53 - 2016-08-08 16:21:30 UTC
Supers were supposed to be stupid rare because of how expensive they were. All we had to do to build a lot of them was to import a lot of orebears

A signature :o
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#54 - 2016-08-08 16:41:27 UTC
Celeste Coeval wrote:


Which is not what built this games community originally...




You nailed it.

The community that's left is sick right now. CCP has the leadership and authority to fix it without any nerfs or changes in mechanics and covering it up with new content. The game is better than ever but it's wasted on the players. But the problem appears internal to their ranks and a problem must be admitted to before it can be addressed.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Memphis Baas
#55 - 2016-08-08 17:10:12 UTC
CCP should have kept the materials for the Vehement the same as the materials for the Moros, with two extra material needed: 500 full skill injectors and 10,000 (capsuleer) corpses. The injectors to keep the PLEX sales going, and the corpses to promote the PVP that these ships will never see.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#56 - 2016-08-08 18:46:28 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
CCP should have kept the materials for the Vehement the same as the materials for the Moros, with two extra material needed: 500 full skill injectors and 10,000 (capsuleer) corpses. The injectors to keep the PLEX sales going, and the corpses to promote the PVP that these ships will never see.



I have long hoped for biological "bug ships" (See the "Lexx" series) that needed to be fed on corpses. But that apparently would have to be a different game for being way too outside of Eve cannon. Just the way it is.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Skettis Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2016-08-08 21:59:33 UTC
Excellent thread!
Since "fozziesov", CCP is constantly treating us like puppets, everything that was good in this game simply ... vanished! I think they're just looking at PLEX sales and that's it!

EVE is far of being a game anymore, people are fighting for killboards, "lulz" and ... that's pretty much it.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2016-08-08 22:14:34 UTC
7.4 untanked freighters

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#59 - 2016-08-08 22:35:01 UTC
CCP has been breaking the fundamentals of the game consistently in the last year or so. Many of the things introduced would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. I blame the current crop of Devs for the change in attitude and direction which has perhaps been influenced by the shareholders clamouring for more $$.

Greyscale was the last of the old school devs to leave, and then upon his departure a lot of his work was undone. If you look at how he interacted on the forums extensively before pushing changes to tranquillity, yet wasn't afraid to make bold moves to keep eve close to the original vision; we're now lucky to get a single response to a new feature, if there is a thread at all.

So to cut a long story short, the fact that the Vehement has a ridiculously over inflated build cost doesn't surprise me. And although annoying and stupid, is rather a minor issue compared to what else has been coming out of CCP recently.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#60 - 2016-08-09 06:50:24 UTC
I did the Blood Raiders event and kind of enjoyed it. The accelerator rewards were pretty sweet and fairly easy to acquire.
I also did the Frostline event and kind of didn't really enjoy it, until a PLEX dropped for me and I got all excited again.
I took one look at this Serpentis/Angels event, saw the mechanics and the rewards and thought: meh. I only run whatever sites spawn in my wormhole, for no other reason than to clear up the Overview. I have no idea if I'm doing the *right* ones or not and honestly don't care. Now, this is from a guy that really loves flying Serpentis and Angel Cartel subcaps.

But seriously, for the absurd build costs of a Vehement, I could buy two Moros alts and ships for them. Two Moros will still out-DPS one Vehement.

I agree with the OP. The price should be determined by the BPC rarity. Some unique parts not required for a regular Moros, sure why not. But just a straight 20x modifier on the parts list for a Moros? That's simply being lazy beyond words.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura