EVE General Discussion

You say we are on the same side, but I don't think so. My view is the game has always been, and hopefully always be, if you do something imprudent in the game there will be somebody to show you just how imprudent you were. Now, that is not to say everyone should do what I say, it is merely describing how the game is.

First time I agree with you about something.

Hulkageddon sucked and was awesome at the same time. Depending on one of 3 choices: gankee, ganker or industrialist

That's great and I don't necessarily disagree with you if we ignore possible long term shifts in demographics ...
... but what exactly has that to do now with what I said?

It's actually completely impossible talking to you ...
... because you can't stop reading things no one writes ...
... and have a horrible attitude towards people trying to talk and analyse.

An ability that would suit you well, but it needs things you seem to lack.

You're being superficial. Dare I say you have no damn clue and believe "people do what they want".
You do not understand how choices are created, how people are formed or how players are lead along the way.


You're nothing but a troll.

Have a nice day. :)

Regardless of why people choose to mine or mission, or whatever other boring activity, he does have a point. These players do still directly contribute to your eve gameplay.

Maybe you are an explorer in nullsec and find an A-type invuln. Who is going to buy that? One possibility is a mission runner blinging his favourite mission ship. Without him the demand is lower and so is the isk you can expect to make.

Another example, you are a suicide ganker looking to gank for as cheap as possible so you can afford more ganks. Who provides the ships you will use? Who provides the materials in the first place? Yes it is these loner-type players once again.

Sure you can argue that eve is better played with other people (which is just like your opinion, man), but if these miners / missioners / whatever all stopped playing you would feel the difference. Eve is a complex game with a real functional economy requiring many different roles to make the wheels turn. I want it to stay this way, with all the depth and complexity it already has.

No, I mean the repeated posts about changing the game to resemble a theme park MMO be it through ganking nerf, transport assembled ships, PVP zones, barge buffs, new players needing access to all ships from day one, etc. They are all following the same theme.

Honestly, I really can't help you with the data. If you are so jaded and conspiracy theory obsessed that you assume all companies are lying then I will never change your mind.



Yes, they failed which should give you some indication of the difficulty of making THIS game into what engages many of the more casual/low-risk preferred gamers. Also, the failure and subsequent revolt was on many levels not the least of which was the hint of the golden ammo/pay to win game mechanics preferred by the casual player to which I refer.


With this section you lost me. So WH's are for casual players? Arguably the most lawless and dangerous place (no local, hardcore NPC, no stargates, complicated logistics, etc.) in the game is for casual players? Also release intervals were never part of this discussion.

Finally, since you left out the most relevant portion of my post about changing EVE to cater to a more casual play style and that CCP is run by lying fools I will post it again:

The "silver bullet" to fixing EVE is not to just make it like every other MMO except "in space."

The simple fact is that CCP did not design THIS game for the casual player. This game can not be changed into a game for the casual player. They are developing other games within the EVE IP to attract these people.

two of the most efficient miners i know are also mercenaries.
infact a sizable chunk of our non-contracted wars were grinding their competition into a messy pulp.

miners, ever wondered why sometimes mercs decide to jump up and down on your corp for no apparent reason?
you likely stepped on their pve alts profit margins or moved into their farm of some description or another.

i take up exploration when i have spare time (i like scanning and its good for practice) and we used to grind out locator agents for standing (which is a considerable amount of work,
hell whenever i get the chance i run the amarr ark twice (pull from two chars with standing and do each mission back to back).
all told its the guts of a billion in couple of days.

so if the bears stopped working you know what would happen?
our profit margins would increase several orders of magnitude overnight.

Those repeating posts are not those who quit. It's a group of known names who have their own agenda since years ago.
I am interested in the silent thousands who quit, not the dozen dedicated forum dwellers who are vocal on the forums.

About "conspiracy": common business practices are not exactly conspiracy.




I don't see why having a first person minigame => casual. You can make first person gameplay as competitive and painful as spaceships. After all, you get shot in the head in first person => you lose implants and all which may equal or go beyond the ISK loss you get losing a ship.

Regarding CCP's attitude: yes, I recall. Actually I am one of the "revolts" promoters. I was tired paying 6-12 subs just to see unfinished and just UTTER CRAP coming out, like PI or the 96th re-re-re-remake of even worse, exploitable and laggier FW.
Also, $1000 jeans "philosophy" involved charging 3rd party software developers and website owners.
Considering I was both of them and was dedicating a lot of time and money (websites did not come for free in 2011) and considering I had to adapt (and lose revenue) my website to get it approved as official EvE fansite... that irritated me and the other developers a lot. Actually, in 2011 we saw some 50% developers quitting development never to resume it again. That has been a very serious blow to a very, very faithful and dedicated community.




Casual does not necessarily imply BAD. Likewise, content made for people with limited time <> must make a theme park in space.
You can make something which is quite hard without requiring you to wake up at 3am and stay up on Teamspeak for 11 hours. WHs are an egregious example of that.

Considering I have played most aspects of the game... I found WHs to be way more exciting than playing renter / lone wolf in 0.0. Also, no supercaps spam, no alliance BS and similar toxic gameplay I got so tired of.




I left it out because by agreeing with you (and I do agree with some of that), by keeping EvE "purist enforced", it means EvE is going to lose players till it closes down. Is purism so valuable that even EvE continued existance is less important than that?

Yeah, just wanted to confirm that I don't equate casual to bad players. I'm more concerned with the loss of negative consequences for bad decisions and the growing desire for instant gratification. I believe that is just not what EVE is about. There are many MMO's which offer this playstyle, and I'd like to see EVE retain it's uniqueness in this regard.

A lot of these problems could be avoided if freighters and mining barges had more options then to rely on Concord. Why not give Mining barges real Weapons? They will still be slow but they will have a real punch and good tank so you can also beef up the belt rats. Freighters could get Ewar abilities to make ganking unreliable.
The main problem with mining is, that it is a low-income job. If you add boredom, risk and can flipping it will be stupid to do. So you can give miners more protection (which doesn't involve player action) or you can give them weapons to defend themselves.