These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Is CONCORD endangering humanity?

Author
Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2016-08-07 04:06:18 UTC
Every day we capsuleers are told that CONCORD wants this or CONCORD does not allow that. But is CONCORD actually keeping the interests of humanity in their sights, or do they have a more closed minded point of view? They are New Eden's primere police force, and they keep the great Empires in check. It is excuse of them that wars are fought by proxy rather than in full out open warfare. They protect shipping, they punish those that break the law. And most importantly, for some, they keep the capsuleer conflict confined to the outer edges of Empire Space.

But why? Does CONCORD truly belive that by restricting the power of capsuleers, they save humanity? We are humanity. We have evolved, through the application of science, to be the absolute best humanity can be. Many of us use this power for I'll. Many of us, myself included, use the promise of immortality to take great risk, putting the lives of thousands in our hands. Only CONCORD has the ability to stop us. But there are threats to humanity that they have no hope of stopping. The Amar lost their empress to a drifter attack, while she was being escorted by the Navy's finest warriors. CONCORD has no hope against the drifters. Only capsuleers have ever stood toe to toe with those creatures. The Empire space supposedly patrolled and policed by CONCORD and it's subsidiaries is rife with corruption and pirate factions. The Gurista's, Angel's, Serpentis, and others have many outposts in High and Low security space. Space supposed to be protected from these types of threats. Sansha's Nation makes increasingly violent incursions into 'secure' space, sometimes abducting entire colonies of people. Where does this end? Who keeps New Eden truly safe? The capsuleers.

For too long has CONCORD held a knife at our throats. We are humanities best hope in the dark reaches of space. And I believe it is up to us to prove it. We for one, at Pandemic Horde Inc. have been populating vast numbers of citadel structures throughout "Null security space." The civilian infrastructure created by PHI has increased the prosperity of the region vastly, and projected numbers show a large increase of further civilian immigration. As of this date no civilian center or colony has been successfully attacked or occupied by any known pirate faction or hostile entity. For civilians in PHI space, it is as safe as living in the middle of 1.0 space. Some might say even safer.

So if this is possible under capsuleers I raise this question. Why is CONCORD in charge at all?

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.

Ottom Ephesianos
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#2 - 2016-08-07 04:55:24 UTC
Concord is a neutral allocator of drone essence. Their protocols are void of political and jurisdictional opinion. They are able to transfer a clones awareness light years away to a pod kills medical bay. That is their purpose and the reason I don't use implants. I would see a day when CONCORD steps aside to see the better capsuleer take the grid but that day is not today. It will take a concentrated effort from Faction Warfare teams and Titan pilots before CONCORD recognizes pod pilot independence.
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#3 - 2016-08-07 04:56:52 UTC
The same reason anyone is in charge anywhere. They have more and better ships.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2016-08-07 05:12:15 UTC
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
The same reason anyone is in charge anywhere. They have more and better ships.

This is true the only thing that keeps them in power is their ships if the drifters can kill them then we need to find out how and find a way to replicate this we need to discuss this away from CONCORD monitored communication channels of course
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#5 - 2016-08-07 05:27:32 UTC  |  Edited by: John Revenent
Capsuleers unbound would be the end of humanity as we know it. All we do is destroy without a blink, without guilt, without a second thought of who's life we have dismantled. We are not humanity. The majority are nothing more then egotistical, psychotic beings claiming to be the peak of what 'humanity' has to offer. Admit it we have been stripped of the very thing that makes us human.. compassion, hell you can't even trust your closest friend as a capsuleer without worrying about when they will betray or steal from you.

CONCORD has is every right to restrict us, sadly they oft refuse to utilize their power for worry of political backlash.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#6 - 2016-08-07 07:20:52 UTC
What evolution are we talking... humanity is as childlish as it was thousands years ago, there is no difference in that case between normal humans and capsuleers.
The Guristas, Angels, Serpentis are not a threat to humanity they are part of it but follow a different path.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-08-07 10:19:19 UTC
I have to agree with my esteemed compatriot from Solitude, that the flaw in your argument is the presumption humanity has achieved the best of itself in capsuleers. All the evidence is to the contrary. Capsuleers are largely venal, amoral, selfish and, unrestrained by the penalties that mortality imposes on ethical behaviour, often without limits on their wicked behaviour. Many others, it is true, use their capabilities for the wider good. The balance however, is firmly toward evil.

CONCORD is a deeply flawed entity, founded in good intentions, but discovering the eternal truth that such noble intentions invariably lead to Hell. However, in mitigation, it has had only a few years to deal with understanding the immense capability of capsuleers, especially en masse, and their capacity for evil doing. In addition, the Empires are often at each other's throats, and new and terrifying external threats arise almost daily.

I defy any organisation to be perfect in such an environment, and in such a short space of years. CONCORD might have a chance if the capsuleer community helped rather than hindered its efforts, but we like treasure, killing and disorder too much.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#8 - 2016-08-07 12:04:43 UTC
When CONCORD was set up, it was in recognition that, with the limits of the cluster explored, there was the possibility that unrestricted warfare between different political entities carried the potential to cause the complete extinction of the human species as a whole.

While civilisations have risen and fell in the past, as evidenced by the ruins of the Yan Jung in Deltole, and other ruins elsewhere, when those civilisations fell, there were still humans elsewhere in the universe, unknown to any observers.

Nowadays, however, were the great powers to commit unrestricted warfare, with Titan weapons fired on inhabited planets and the like, there is the very real possibility that such a destructive war would leave no humans in the universe.

Thusly, CONCORD was set up, in an effort to defuse political troubles, so that such an omnicidal war is prevented, and to ensure the continuation of human civilisation across the cluster.

Directive Zero: Human civilisation Must Survive.

However, the nature of that human civilisation, is not specified.

CONCORD, has taken it upon itself, to ensure that their particular preferred type of human civilisation is the one that endures. Things that threaten, or suggest an alternative to, that vision are outlawed by CONCORD.

And their particular preferred type of civilisation is one of Orderly Trade and Commerce. Sanctioned violence, in the form of corporate wars, is allowed, but random violence is not, because random violence is Unpredictable and thusly a threat to Orderly Trade and Commerce.

And of course, it is the fees generated from the Orderly Commerce, that sustains CONCORD, so they have a vested interest now in preserving their particular view of human society.

It is perhaps, another case of an institution set up to guard something, instead becoming an institution that guards its own existence, in detriment to the thing it was intended to guard.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Felise Selunix
Keyholder Investment Group
#9 - 2016-08-07 15:33:37 UTC
I was thinking about this question over the past couple of days after hearing a few capsuleer said talk about the possibility of reviving capsuleer-owned banking. The issue was a non-starter largely because of the consensus that no real trust could be built between capsuleers. To me, this is the crux of the reason that CONCORD needs to exist. Capsuleers (like everyone else) tend to be untrustworthy, vindictive, selfish, and in some cases flat out psychopathic and since we are so powerful, a check needs to exist. And while greate cooperative capsuleer efforts are underway (PHI, Providence, etc.), I'm not sure that they represent the majority of capsuleer activity. Moreover, I'm not sure that any individual alliance or corporation has the wish or wherewithal to take policing responsibility for all capsuleers.

I think there's the potential for this and that we're moving towards that kind of thing, but until capsuleers can generally create such all-encompassing social, political, and economic structures, the disappearance of CONCORD I'm afraid could be dangerous for capsuleers and baseliners alike.

This also isn't a wholesale endorsement of CONCORD either since everything you've said about them is true and more. However, I think, much as Dr. Valate eluded to, they keep the economic and political wheels rolling in general throughout Empire Space despite the corruption and dereliction. I think for most people at the end of the day, that's what counts.

This is an excellent topic though. It got me to stop talking about isk for a minute, which surprised the heck out of me. Thank you for starting it, Ms. Ivanovich.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-08-07 21:31:18 UTC
CONCORD endangers humanity because it allows entities like Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic.

We need new CONCORD. Without them. Both Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic shall be declared as outlaw entities and their space shall be removed from CONCORD-controlled territories.

They both so love their "freedom". Let them have it.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#11 - 2016-08-07 23:01:26 UTC
Yes, don't put any limitations on what ships and technology we can use, that's one way to defang us...
Felise Selunix
Keyholder Investment Group
#12 - 2016-08-08 04:31:50 UTC
Ok, I'll admit it: I can't get this subject out of my mind! The idea of a capsuleer-run policing agency seems rife with opportunity, but economic and humanistic. Change is a good thing!

In order to move forward into something real, though, I think that the real question here seems to be what would a capsuleer-led CONCORD replacement look like? What would the barriers be and what would need to happen for them to be overcome? For instance, one barrier might be the venality of capsuleers (lying, greed, etc.), still another might be long held factional differences or just a basic lack of trust. What would it take for a capsuleer-run organization to mitigate or address these issues on a global scale, rather than just in corp or alliances? Are there any examples to draw from?
Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-08-08 07:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkoth 24
Karina Ivanovich wrote:
We are humanity. We have evolved, through the application of science, to be the absolute best humanity can be.

Nice lie to belive. Should make you proud.

John Revenent wrote:
Capsuleers unbound would be the end of humanity as we know it. All we do is destroy without a blink, without guilt, without a second thought of who's life we have dismantled. We are not humanity. The majority are nothing more then egotistical, psychotic beings claiming to be the peak of what 'humanity' has to offer. Admit it we have been stripped of the very thing that makes us human.. compassion, hell you can't even trust your closest friend as a capsuleer without worrying about when they will betray or steal from you.

CONCORD has is every right to restrict us, sadly they oft refuse to utilize their power for worry of political backlash.

This.

Capsuleers are tools. Required weapons. Beasts on a leash. CONCORD just controls 'em, keeps 'em fighting each other, and takes down frenzied ones.

Diana Kim wrote:
CONCORD endangers humanity because it allows entities like Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic.

We need new CONCORD. Without them. Both Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic shall be declared as outlaw entities and their space shall be removed from CONCORD-controlled territories.

They both so love their "freedom". Let them have it.

Miss Kim, what would you do if we will take your hatred away one day? 'Cause it looks like the only thing that keeps you moving.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#14 - 2016-08-08 07:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
The fallacy that Capsuleers are an evolution is evident if any pilot bothers to look around them every time they wake in a new clone. Large, CONCORD licenced and mandated med labs, teeming with staff and filled to the brim with artificially made clones. This is what gives Capsuleers their "immortality" and just as it is given it can be oh so easily taken away. Upset too many med-techs, break severely some CONCORD rule, hell even die outside of the pod without a soft clone, I've seen these and more permanently end a Capsuleer's existance and put to bed the joke of us being trans-human demi Gods.

As for CONCORD's leash on us, I call it emphatically necessary given the general Capsuleer populace's prelediction to mass destruction. Unlock the ability to fire at planets outside of DUST mercenary beacons and I'm sure more then a few would do it for fun. Honestly I'm begining to think we have so many psychotics with licences precisely because psychopathy is an advantageous trait in training.

Thank goodness for the most part all we can harm is each other and pirate forces (with a few agent contract exceptions) as we're about the equivillent of arguing, angsty early teenagers sadly equiped with weapons of mass destruction and a bend for violence.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Solecist Project
#15 - 2016-08-08 13:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
John Revenent wrote:
Capsuleers unbound would be the end of humanity as we know it. All we do is destroy without a blink, without guilt, without a second thought of who's life we have dismantled. We are not humanity. The majority are nothing more then egotistical, psychotic beings claiming to be the peak of what 'humanity' has to offer. Admit it we have been stripped of the very thing that makes us human.. compassion, hell you can't even trust your closest friend as a capsuleer without worrying about when they will betray or steal from you.

CONCORD has is every right to restrict us, sadly they oft refuse to utilize their power for worry of political backlash.

Crashing a current system and reaching Anarchy isn't so bad from an evolutionary perspective ...
... and Anarchy never lasts long. Besides it not being a bad thing per se anyway.

People will group up into small, trusting and self sufficient communities ...
... who will be willing to fight to defend themslves.

The rest dies off, making room for the stronger ones who had enough of being "protected" ...
... aka having an unelected power force them to abandon all ways of improving society in natural ways.


Even though the breeding factor obviously doesn't count ...
... new capsuleers will enter the environment learning to stand up for themselves from the get-go.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Nitshe Razvedka
#16 - 2016-08-09 04:03:04 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
CONCORD endangers humanity because it allows entities like Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic.

We need new CONCORD. Without them. Both Gallente Federation and Minmatar Republic shall be declared as outlaw entities and their space shall be removed from CONCORD-controlled territories.

They both so love their "freedom". Let them have it.


Well said our Mighty Kim. I would suggest we go further and build a wall around the Gallente and Minmatar. Then make them pay for the wall.

Make Empire Great Again.


A towering erection is not enough for you Kim. After your statue is consecrated, A Caldari Military Academy named in your honour would be expected. Where we can produce an Army of Caldari warriors in your image.

Hail Kim o7

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.

Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-08-10 01:27:58 UTC
"Immortality", and its knockoff that we enjoy, is a force multiplier. It does not make us evil or remove our humanity. It amplifies the nature of the person who wields it. If they are good-hearted and good-natured, and are secure in their convictions, it allows them to do great things and be a far greater force for good in the cluster than 1,000,000 ordinary planet-dwellers.

If they are insecure in their personage, allow themselves to be overtaken by incentives to pursue the worst pursuits of humanity, then they will use it to do so. Being a capsuleer is a position of enormous power and privilege. Unfortunately, positions of power attract those with a pathological will to power, and those are rarely the type of people who deserve it.

I must disagree with Revenant. Capsuleers are every bit human, and our behavior falls well within the boundaries of historical human tendencies, it's simply exaggerated in effect. This also has a positive side, it means we are also capable of using the capsule for immeasurable good. And with our every need and desire typically taken care of very early in our careers, there's no reason we shouldn't do this.

No heart is ever corrupted without its consent. We are no different.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-08-10 21:00:55 UTC
Arkoth 24 wrote:

Miss Kim, what would you do if we will take your hatred away one day? 'Cause it looks like the only thing that keeps you moving.

My hatred is just a tool I use to enhance my strength against the enemies of the State.

Nitshe Razvedka wrote:

A towering erection is not enough for you Kim. After your statue is consecrated, A Caldari Military Academy named in your honour would be expected. Where we can produce an Army of Caldari warriors in your image.

Hail Kim o7

Would you like a cup of overconcentrated Kresh tea?..
Though I think I'd like to feed you with molten thorium instead.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Nitshe Razvedka
#19 - 2016-08-10 21:16:17 UTC
Your humility in rejecting recognition does you honour Kim. We will have to build the largest Academy in your name to do you justice.Big smile

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#20 - 2016-08-11 00:22:38 UTC
Take my hand, soldier, and choke yourself with it.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

123Next page