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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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Galaxy Chicken
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#1081 - 2016-08-04 23:54:31 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
And for the record - yes, I am jealous of CODE.

I wish I'd thought of it first...

I mean **** - forget people who afk mine to earn isk for PLEX to play for free.....Arbitrarily declaring myself leader of high sec and recruiting a bunch of easily amused drones to farm isk for me, so that I *don't even have to log in* to earn isk to get PLEX and play for free? That is absolutely brilliant.

James 315 truly is a visionary - at least in the running for the absolute best scammer in EVE history.



You seem to be confused friend, you see, James 315 sends me money.
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#1082 - 2016-08-05 00:07:05 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Like strip miners used to be 4 million, now they are 2 million. Retriever used to cost 35-40 million, now it is 25 million.


Where are you gettings these prices from? 2 million? Then you got very lucky as that is far away from their usual price point which hovers between 3.5 and 4 million these days (currently slightly below 3.7 million in Jita). Edit: I suppose you mean T2?

I got the prices in jita...where else?

TBH I just looked at T1..because not many miners seem to use T2...and I don't think I've ever actually purchased one - just got them as drops from miners...but the in-game estimate said close to 4 million isk...

and as I said, it was back just after the mining ship buff - so that may have spiked prices at the time I suppose.

Not in the post I quoted. I didn't read the whole thread though, so I must have missed it, sorry about that. Anyway, that explains it then: While mining mods were indeed spiking for a short time due to the mining changes, there is more to it. Not long before that, drone alloys were removed from Rogue Drones and as such the mineral market as a whole was in turmoil (that's actually the really big long lasting spike in april 2012 and the months following, when you pull up the market history on eve-marketdata.com). That took a while to settle but for several years now the module is at around 2 mil.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1083 - 2016-08-05 00:20:48 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
And for the record - yes, I am jealous of CODE.

I wish I'd thought of it first...

I mean **** - forget people who afk mine to earn isk for PLEX to play for free.....Arbitrarily declaring myself leader of high sec and recruiting a bunch of easily amused drones to farm isk for me, so that I *don't even have to log in* to earn isk to get PLEX and play for free? That is absolutely brilliant.

James 315 truly is a visionary - at least in the running for the absolute best scammer in EVE history.


Shocked

That is alot of AFK mining. And PLEX is not playing for free.

Sorry, couldn't let that softball go by.....

Lol I know - but I keep seeing a lot of the CODE. forum warriors posting it so I couldn't resist Lol

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1084 - 2016-08-05 01:04:36 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:

Not in the post I quoted. I didn't read the whole thread though, so I must have missed it, sorry about that. Anyway, that explains it then: While mining mods were indeed spiking for a short time due to the mining changes, there is more to it. Not long before that, drone alloys were removed from Rogue Drones and as such the mineral market as a whole was in turmoil (that's actually the really big long lasting spike in april 2012 and the months following, when you pull up the market history on eve-marketdata.com). That took a while to settle but for several years now the module is at around 2 mil.


The spike is better explained with what was going on at the time, the barge rebalance saw the end of the mining interdictions, to give you a idea of the level of the change, my corp went into Caldari highsec for one of these events with just 30 people and racked up over 600 exhumer kills in just 2 weeks (I don't have figures for T1 barges but it was just as bloody). Now that is a lot of ships and equipment that needed to be replaced (The number of gank catalysts was incredibly high too and at that time there was no copy/paste fitting, they were all put together by hand. Took 2 months to get ready for it).

You can probably see the event in the catalyst history as a spike back in February 2012 when we ran out of ships and had to buy more stock. The price of the hulk for example rose from 220 million to a high of 326 million before slowly falling back down to around 220 million some 6 months later as people got the funds together to replace losses. Mining equipment doubled in that time too.

It was a very good time to be building mining ships/mods.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1085 - 2016-08-05 08:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Teckos Pech wrote:

Were they doing things like not using a scout. Autopiloting? No webber? No escort at all?


I recall driving a pair of Fenrirs or escorting (back when I had been a logistics officer in my first 0.0 corp) in low sec / 0.0 depending on my superiors decision about my role for the day.

Last supply train we had about 28 freighters / orcas / indis (depending on their owner's capabilities) with perhaps 20 carriers as escort and a number of assorted BS / BCs. Those were the epic times, when EvE was totally worth playing at any cost.


However, you can't expect everybody to be as organized, to have a whole 16 hours to run such epic convoys.

A game that requires 2 subscriptions is not a fair game. It's offering features that require paying twice as much as advertised just to be able to perform basic tasks like ferrying stuff around.
If EvE is meant to be played with a minumum of two accounts, that's OK, but then CCP have to tell this to perspective new players or to let players pay 1 account and play for 2.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1086 - 2016-08-05 08:59:25 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
some are forgetting their place in all of this, if you are a client (us) you take part, if you are the producer (CCP) you provide the area for the clients (us) to take part.

when you feel you want to take more a dev role and feel you have what it takes to be a part of the team that brings us EVE then hey, stick an application into CCP and i'm sure they'll interview you and then it's all up to you.

until then stfu and play.


Some years ago I got interested in that. Having to go live in Iceland and a super-low wage really convinced me to develop software for others.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1087 - 2016-08-05 09:16:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Were they doing things like not using a scout. Autopiloting? No webber? No escort at all?


...

A game that requires 2 subscriptions is not a fair game. It's offering features that require paying twice as much as advertised just to be able to perform basic tasks like ferrying stuff around.
If EvE is meant to be played with a minumum of two accounts, that's OK, but then CCP have to tell this to perspective new players or to let players pay 1 account and play for 2.

65% (almost 2/3rds) of players have only 1 account.

It's not meant to be played with 2 accounts. Some activities are best not performed alone, whether that involves using alts, or making friends. Either way works.

Edit: Source:

Graph of accounts per player
CCP Quant's reddit post (with additional graphs)

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1088 - 2016-08-05 09:19:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:

Not in the post I quoted. I didn't read the whole thread though, so I must have missed it, sorry about that. Anyway, that explains it then: While mining mods were indeed spiking for a short time due to the mining changes, there is more to it. Not long before that, drone alloys were removed from Rogue Drones and as such the mineral market as a whole was in turmoil (that's actually the really big long lasting spike in april 2012 and the months following, when you pull up the market history on eve-marketdata.com). That took a while to settle but for several years now the module is at around 2 mil.


The spike is better explained with what was going on at the time, the barge rebalance saw the end of the mining interdictions, to give you a idea of the level of the change, my corp went into Caldari highsec for one of these events with just 30 people and racked up over 600 exhumer kills in just 2 weeks (I don't have figures for T1 barges but it was just as bloody). Now that is a lot of ships and equipment that needed to be replaced (The number of gank catalysts was incredibly high too and at that time there was no copy/paste fitting, they were all put together by hand. Took 2 months to get ready for it).

You can probably see the event in the catalyst history as a spike back in February 2012 when we ran out of ships and had to buy more stock. The price of the hulk for example rose from 220 million to a high of 326 million before slowly falling back down to around 220 million some 6 months later as people got the funds together to replace losses. Mining equipment doubled in that time too.

It was a very good time to be building mining ships/mods.



Yes, I always fondly recall those times, I was producing both exhumers and their BPCs at maximum capacity.

I posted about that so many times, you and Tippia were filling the forums with ideology about awful exhumers fittings (was better to mine in an Osprey instead of using your suggestions :) ) but in the end I just followed the trend and bulk made ships for gankers and gankees. Great fun and money! Pirate

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1089 - 2016-08-05 09:20:48 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Were they doing things like not using a scout. Autopiloting? No webber? No escort at all?


I recall driving a pair of Fenrirs or escorting (back when I had been a logistics officer in my first 0.0 corp) in low sec / 0.0 depending on my superiors decision about my role for the day.

Last supply train we had about 28 freighters / orcas / indis (depending on their owner's capabilities) with perhaps 20 carriers as escort and a number of assorted BS / BCs. Those were the epic times, when EvE was totally worth playing at any cost.


However, you can't expect everybody to be as organized, to have a whole 16 hours to run such epic convoys.

A game that requires 2 subscriptions is not a fair game. It's offering features that require paying twice as much as advertised just to be able to perform basic tasks like ferrying stuff around.
If EvE is meant to be played with a minumum of two accounts, that's OK, but then CCP have to tell this to perspective new players or to let players pay 1 account and play for 2.

65% (almost 2/3rds) of players have only 1 account.

It's not meant to be played with 2 accounts. Some activities are best not performed alone, whether that involves using alts, or making friends. Either way works.

Edit: Source:

Graph of accounts per player
CCP Quant's reddit post


That's the usual "average of 1 chicken per person" statistics. Active players who don't live puchasing bunch of PLEXes, end up having to create 3-4 accounts.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1090 - 2016-08-05 09:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
That's the usual "average of 1 chicken per person" statistics. Active players who don't live puchasing bunch of PLEXes, end up having to create 3-4 accounts.

Can you validate that claim?

From CCP Quant's FanFest 2015 presentation:

- 175,000 unique users online per day
- 420,000 unique users per month

https://puu.sh/qqzBG/ffd6502ea9.png (based on 2014 averaged figures).

We also know from comments at FanFest in 2014 that there are ~480,000 names on the monument, representing the total subscribed number of accounts (minus inappropriate names) active back in March 2014.

~420,000 active monthly out of ~480,000 subscribed accounts at the time and 2/3rds with only 1 account, which has been a stable figure for a decade.

The specific numbers online are lower now, however a simple comparison of your claim against the available information (did you even go and look at CCP Quant's reddit post linked) suggests that your claim is wrong.

Is it so hard to try to validate your assumptions before typing something stupid like " game that requires 2 subscriptions is not a fair game"

It clearly doesn't require 2 accounts. That's just a dumb statement that isn't supported by the available evidence.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1091 - 2016-08-05 10:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
While the game clearly doesn't "require" 2 accounts - and indeed isn't "meant" to be played with 2 accounts - there are menial tasks that are much easier performed with alts than trying to bug your corp-mates into doing them all the time. Scouting/webbing for a freighter, for example, is fine once in a while - but gets old *really* fast if you get asked to do it all the time and it isn't even your cargo...

Also CCP has been really pushing the dual-account and dual training deals the past few years - so while the game may not "require" or be "meant" to be played with 2 characters, CCP would clearly like everyone to be making alts as often as possible P


edit: Incidentally the number of accounts is no longer a solid indicator of number of alts since multi-character training was introduced - although such alts are admittedly not useful as scouts or active dual-account activities - more for like having a trade alt or an industrial alt or a solo hauling alt/etc - So these alts would still *NOT* make the game something that requires 2 characters - they just let you play 2 separate EVE characters who can't directly interact, only through contracts/etc.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
FlipYa
The Lezbian Institute
Freaks In The Sheets
#1092 - 2016-08-05 11:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: FlipYa
The Bottom Line is: CCP Arrogance.

CCP Development is constantly telling them selves: "We've got bigger things to deal with".

As other people have said in this thread: CCP is constantly chasing new development into areas no one cares about... while ignoring core game play issues that people actively petition about - only to be ignored.

The CCP user base is down by about 40%-50% over 4 years << and here is a clue : THIS IS Your "Bigger Thing(s) To Deal With"

CCP can point the finger in any direction they like.... The Bottom Line is: They can't retain legacy users due to things mentioned in this thread.. which will of course... Be: Completely Ignored
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1093 - 2016-08-05 11:38:21 UTC
FlipYa wrote:
The Bottom Line is: CCP Arrogance.

CCP Development is constantly telling them selves: "We've got bigger things to deal with".

As other people have said in this thread: CCP is constantly chasing new development into areas no one cares about... while ignoring core game play issues that people actively petition about - only to be ignored.

The CCP user base is down by about 40%-50% over 4 years << and here is a clue : THIS IS Your "Bigger Thing(s) To Deal With"

CCP can point the finger in any direction they like.... The Bottom Line is: They can't retain legacy users due to things mentioned in this thread.. which will of course... Be: Completely Ignored


I agree with you but i'm not sure that CCP is sharing your point of view : maybe they already have agreed to let EVE Online die, that it won't be anymore their main source of money because it's getting old and because it's not casual and mainstream enough. Maybe they are chasing a new illusion with their "Virtual Reality" games.
Well, i find the word very adapted to what's happening here. CCP is living in a virtual reality.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1094 - 2016-08-05 11:49:18 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
I agree with you but i'm not sure that CCP is sharing your point of view : maybe they already have agreed to let EVE Online die, that it won't be anymore their main source of money because it's getting old and because it's not casual and mainstream enough. Maybe they are chasing a new illusion with their "Virtual Reality" games.
Well, i find the word very adapted to what's happening here. CCP is living in a virtual reality.

Actually there was a link posted (by one of the "oh noes EVE is dying people in this thread) a while back - I'm too lazy to go back and pull it up - but it said that even though the total number of subscribers in EVE is down, their costs are also down, and their profits are *up*.

So quite simply this would indicate (to me) that CCP has decided to start making *money* their bottom line. They are finally running EVE like a large business rather than like a niche game/pet project/fun hobby...

Whether they are doing this to fund other projects or merely to line their own pockets is really irrelevant - the point is they are doing whatever they can to increase their profits from EVE at this point.

Many have argued whether this is sustainable or not...But based on other games that have made this transition (runescape for example)...there will be a rough patch here as the user-base transitions - but if they can survive the transition (and they seem to be doing pretty well so far all things considered, though the transition is far from completed yet) they will be in a position to set new record highs in profit.

So to summarize: EVE is changing, but certainly not dying.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1095 - 2016-08-05 11:57:53 UTC
Galaxy Chicken wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
And for the record - yes, I am jealous of CODE.

I wish I'd thought of it first...

I mean **** - forget people who afk mine to earn isk for PLEX to play for free.....Arbitrarily declaring myself leader of high sec and recruiting a bunch of easily amused drones to farm isk for me, so that I *don't even have to log in* to earn isk to get PLEX and play for free? That is absolutely brilliant.

James 315 truly is a visionary - at least in the running for the absolute best scammer in EVE history.



You seem to be confused friend, you see, James 315 sends me money.

I spend a little money on my dog too. For food, even toys occasionally.

I like it to stay alive. Much more entertaining that way.

Dead puppies aren't much fun.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
FlipYa
The Lezbian Institute
Freaks In The Sheets
#1096 - 2016-08-05 12:27:19 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
FlipYa wrote:
The Bottom Line is: CCP Arrogance.

CCP Development is constantly telling them selves: "We've got bigger things to deal with".

As other people have said in this thread: CCP is constantly chasing new development into areas no one cares about... while ignoring core game play issues that people actively petition about - only to be ignored.

The CCP user base is down by about 40%-50% over 4 years << and here is a clue : THIS IS Your "Bigger Thing(s) To Deal With"

CCP can point the finger in any direction they like.... The Bottom Line is: They can't retain legacy users due to things mentioned in this thread.. which will of course... Be: Completely Ignored


maybe they already have agreed to let EVE Online die, that it won't be anymore their main source of money because it's getting old


I was going to add that to my post too. But I didn't want to go on for too long.

And Ya, after a while a business has - Had It's Day - and the smart business thing to do is just ride it until it dies and get what money you can out of it.

But then, why all the new development? I've returned to the game to find a lot of cool new stuff. But as I mentioned, core stuff has been totally ignored in favor of the new stuff. So, I think they need to fire some people and save the model which quite obviously IS sustainable or people would not be in this thread.

And we are just the ones taking the time to talk about it. Which is not to count the people that just straight up quit because they have given up on CCP - NOT EVE itself
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1097 - 2016-08-05 12:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
That's the usual "average of 1 chicken per person" statistics. Active players who don't live puchasing bunch of PLEXes, end up having to create 3-4 accounts.

Can you validate that claim?

From CCP Quant's FanFest 2015 presentation:

- 175,000 unique users online per day
- 420,000 unique users per month

https://puu.sh/qqzBG/ffd6502ea9.png (based on 2014 averaged figures).

We also know from comments at FanFest in 2014 that there are ~480,000 names on the monument, representing the total subscribed number of accounts (minus inappropriate names) active back in March 2014.

~420,000 active monthly out of ~480,000 subscribed accounts at the time and 2/3rds with only 1 account, which has been a stable figure for a decade.

The specific numbers online are lower now, however a simple comparison of your claim against the available information (did you even go and look at CCP Quant's reddit post linked) suggests that your claim is wrong.

Is it so hard to try to validate your assumptions before typing something stupid like " game that requires 2 subscriptions is not a fair game"

It clearly doesn't require 2 accounts. That's just a dumb statement that isn't supported by the available evidence.


Awwwwww, Poor Shae thinks facts and reasoning means anyhting around these parts. Ain't that precious? Twisted

To answer your question I highlighted above, the answer is yes, it is exactly too hard for many people. You want proof. Here is a place full of proof.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#1098 - 2016-08-05 12:48:13 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
That's the usual "average of 1 chicken per person" statistics. Active players who don't live puchasing bunch of PLEXes, end up having to create 3-4 accounts.

Can you validate that claim?

From CCP Quant's FanFest 2015 presentation:

- 175,000 unique users online per day
- 420,000 unique users per month

https://puu.sh/qqzBG/ffd6502ea9.png (based on 2014 averaged figures).

We also know from comments at FanFest in 2014 that there are ~480,000 names on the monument, representing the total subscribed number of accounts (minus inappropriate names) active back in March 2014.

~420,000 active monthly out of ~480,000 subscribed accounts at the time and 2/3rds with only 1 account, which has been a stable figure for a decade.

The specific numbers online are lower now, however a simple comparison of your claim against the available information (did you even go and look at CCP Quant's reddit post linked) suggests that your claim is wrong.

Is it so hard to try to validate your assumptions before typing something stupid like " game that requires 2 subscriptions is not a fair game"

It clearly doesn't require 2 accounts. That's just a dumb statement that isn't supported by the available evidence.

Hay every one!
Look, shes using facts ,statistics and employing research in a reasonable and concise manner.

...

GET HER!!!

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1099 - 2016-08-05 12:50:08 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
That's the usual "average of 1 chicken per person" statistics. Active players who don't live puchasing bunch of PLEXes, end up having to create 3-4 accounts.

Can you validate that claim?

From CCP Quant's FanFest 2015 presentation:

- 175,000 unique users online per day
- 420,000 unique users per month

https://puu.sh/qqzBG/ffd6502ea9.png (based on 2014 averaged figures).

We also know from comments at FanFest in 2014 that there are ~480,000 names on the monument, representing the total subscribed number of accounts (minus inappropriate names) active back in March 2014.

~420,000 active monthly out of ~480,000 subscribed accounts at the time and 2/3rds with only 1 account, which has been a stable figure for a decade.

The specific numbers online are lower now, however a simple comparison of your claim against the available information (did you even go and look at CCP Quant's reddit post linked) suggests that your claim is wrong.

Is it so hard to try to validate your assumptions before typing something stupid like " game that requires 2 subscriptions is not a fair game"

It clearly doesn't require 2 accounts. That's just a dumb statement that isn't supported by the available evidence.

Hay every one!
Look, shes using facts ,statistics and employing research in a reasonable and concise manner.

...

GET HER!!!


Don't worry, I've already called the Icelandic Coast Guard about this situation. Black Helicopters are on the way as we speak.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1100 - 2016-08-05 12:53:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Don't worry, I've already called the Icelandic Coast Guard about this situation. Black Helicopters are on the way as we speak.
Good. We don't want this trend to spread - best to wipe it out at the source.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)