Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What we currently have, svipul wise:

400dps, 20k tank, super fast.

Pick one of those at great cost to the other two. Modes should carry penalties as well as bonuses.

Actually the Zeg is better than T2, and the Lig may be almost as good as T2. They get bonuses from both skills, so their numbers are better than they look.
However the fact they cost something like 150 times more due to crazy build requirements is what kills them. If it was only 15 times more, you would see a lot more of them being used. Which considering we are comparing a T2 to a T3..... T3C's are only about 3-4 times more than a T2 at the moment. Much closer than your example you tried using.

And sure Ft, there is only a narrow spot for them to be better than a T1 at two things while still being worse than a T2 at those two things. And to make it work you would have to remove the total flexibility of subsystems and go much more like the tactical modes. Though as I said before, you could use subsystems to decide what tactical modes you get on your T3. So you don't have to get rid of subsystems entirely, they just become a much smaller part of the ship, since part of the problem is balancing every single possible combination of subsystem/slot layout they can have.

And sure to Baltec's idea to get rid of rigs on T3C's. (Would that help balance T3D's also?). I can see the point.

Jack-of-all-trades implies that it can do several things simultaneously. I think that's where T3Cs become too strong.

They have;

• BS-size tanks,
• Cruiser-size sigs,
• Nullification,
• Damage.

All at the same time.

It's fine to call a ship flexible, but if it can flex three ways at once then it's a problem. The direct approach of nerfing numbers while keeping the 'flexibility' will leave ships in on a knife-edge of being too weak to do anything and strong enough to do everything.

What I think should happen is the T3D treatment to subsystems. An active subsystem provides bonuses. Only one subsystem is active at any point in time.

You've got break the synergy of certain subsystem combinations. And a good balance will break that synergy without making the subsystems useless.

[EDIT]

I realise that role bonuses (can fit module x) are somewhat incompatible with mode-switching. I'd like to propose that all subs that give role bonuses be moved into one special group that is always on. For argument's sake, let's say Engineering Subsystems. Cloaking, Nullification, and Command Links all move to there.

Would this open up room for more role-bonus subsystems? I imagine a bubble launcher would be OP. Fun, but OP.

Yes, sig and mobility do affect overall tank. Maybe I had a poor choice of words. I was thinking in terms of HP pool and resists when I said BS-size tank.

I consider getting bonuses that help being in a Direct Combat role and getting bonuses that help specialist at the same time to be the key problem.

I can slap together a shitfit Proteus that is; cloaky, nullified, and have bonused probes. After dropping a gun to fit the probes, I still get 550dps out of it hot with a 5% implant. It's got 100k EHP without Slaves or links.

Individually, a cloaky Proteus is fine. As is a nullified one. Individually, each bonus is perfectly reasonable.


If modes were applied to this, I would lose access to; 20% dps, (roughly) 27% EHP, mobility while cloaked, bubble immunity, 50% probe strength. Having to pick a mode means if I want to burn something to the ground, I lose tank and some ability to disengage. If I need to tank while waiting for fleet, I can't do full damage. If I'm warping cloaked, I should get caught by bubbles. Conversely, if I'm bubble immune, a conventional gatecamp should catch me.

For the Augmented Plating bonus, and the probe bonus; you're right. They are bigger than T2/Faction (Stratios being the only cruiser with probe bonuses). I has assumed that they'd be equal.

However, the Covops bonus is +5% damage per level, which is the same as the Arazu. Relevant differences are that the Arazu has three guns, not 4-5, but has drones where this Proteus had none.

I'll concede that you have a valid point.

Well, other ships have many of these things already integrated into the hull, in particular the tanking bonuses. Many bonuses also have no influence on one another: The virus strength bonus and tractor beam bonus have no meaning for PVP. On the other hand, the probe scan strength bonus would take away a high slot, reducing the damage. That takes out 4 bonuses and puts the number of actually useful bonuses closer to Recons. The tank bonuses could be turned into a fixed number of HP, though.

A point range bonus would be pretty awesome for covert ops frigs. MWD sig penalty reduction would also be cool.

Rather than "rebalancing" what is broken in so many convoluted ways, might I suggest starting anew.
Design a brand new T3 Cruiser platform from the ground up.

eliatwo has the right idea, by defining the roles that the ships are intended for, and what they should offer.
baltec1 has the right idea by simplifying the bonusus system
FT Diomedes has the right idea by reducing the overall maximums considering the T2 variants.
and the other people are putting good input as well.

But you will never balance what is there now. Definitely not by committee.

It's time for a fresh new design.

Since they have that already, I thought I'll bring it up. But they should only have the t1 abilities and bonuses.

In case they have to keep them, they can be the same as now. But now pew pew in those. If you want to link and pew pew, a Command Ship might be the proper boat for that.