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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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What is the thought process behind the entry fee for the AT?

First post
Author
Sinree
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2016-07-26 17:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinree
What is the thought process behind the entry fee for the AT?

Our team failed to get in via the raffle as did a few other teams, which led me to start thinking about the AT in general and I just couldn't come up with a reason why CCP would choose to alienate the player base based on a entry fee that is biased towards larger alliances with more isk at their disposal.

Would it not be better to allow any alliance to join? it's basically saying to newer and smaller groups of players that you'll never be able to compete, atleast that's how it looks from my point of view.

Can anyone shed light on the situation perhaps I'm overlooking something or being biased somewhat in my opinion?

When i look at other competitive games and their models they are usually open to anyone with qualifying parameters, there would be out rage if you could only play competitive version of these games if you were wealthy in game, especially with a RWT.

TLDR;

NO POORS
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2016-07-26 18:25:06 UTC
We simply need a way to get the team entries down to 64 so the tournament will be manageable to run.
The tournament is a fun project we run for the community but since EVE is a sandbox game spinning up tournaments of arbitrary size isn't as easy as it would be in a FPS/Moba type game.

I'd love to see us expand the number of teams that can participate someday if possible.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Sinree
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2016-07-26 19:39:57 UTC
Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my post.

As someone who really enjoys this kind of gameplay it's a shame that there isn't enough demand for it to warrant further time reducing the workload on your end.

We have been toying with the idea of hosting our own tournaments, so maybe we can improve that demand or cater for some of it.

Once you're forced down the route of limiting the team numbers you're never going to find a fair metric for all, I don't resent ccp at all for their decision I just wasn't aware of the management required, or lack of automation etc.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-07-26 20:34:16 UTC
Sinree wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my post.

As someone who really enjoys this kind of gameplay it's a shame that there isn't enough demand for it to warrant further time reducing the workload on your end.

We have been toying with the idea of hosting our own tournaments, so maybe we can improve that demand or cater for some of it.

Once you're forced down the route of limiting the team numbers you're never going to find a fair metric for all, I don't resent ccp at all for their decision I just wasn't aware of the management required, or lack of automation etc.


There are some player-run tournaments already. EVE_NT for example. I don't know the details for any of them however as I don't follow new about them, I simply see them mentioned from time to time.
Sinree
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2016-07-26 21:48:01 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:

There are some player-run tournaments already. EVE_NT for example. I don't know the details for any of them however as I don't follow new about them, I simply see them mentioned from time to time.


Thanks for info. Useful for players who might be in a similar situation.
Teddy KGB
3200
#6 - 2016-07-26 23:58:43 UTC
Your post precisely reflect my thoughts about the tournament.
My friend and I participated in AT9 when we was in big alliance called White Noise.
in 2010 we formed our own small pvp oriented alliance and didn't pass randomizer for 5 years.
Now draw a picture in your mind. Every weekend we undock with 15-20 gallente only fleet with BS, Recons, in-grid Commands, logis etc. so its different ship types many roles very nice and interesting content for us and those who meet us in space. Our minimum roaming time is 3-5 hours. We jump with that megathrons for 50-60 jumps minimum. So we provide EVE Online with a very-very rare type of CONTENT. We are ready to fight with fleets bigger than ours and even if they have capitals, no problem. So we are doing it for 5 years. Is it fair that we don't pass through the Random Draw 5th time? Yes, coz it's random. Is it right to use random draw? No. Coz we deserve more than that for the hard work we do in this game.

Now Fozzy says we can not afford spend so much time on an ingame event. But this type of content is so much demand in EVE. One of our member quit EVE today. Hope his passion will cool tomorrow, but really. He was waiting for 5 years and gave up. Last year he managed whole alliance to gather plexes for auction, he attracted people from forums, youtube etc. He gathered 64 plexes and you know what. He needed one more plex to win last slot in auction (not sure it was enough though). So much people was involved in it, and still failed, coz there is always someone who have more isks than you. Just imagine what a man who love pvp in eve most of all in his life can feel after such fail, while giving isks back to people.

So yes it's hard for CCP to spend a lot of time on stuff that probably not intersting for them. But the demand of tournament content in eve is really huge. Many people play EVE just coz of AT and they spend real money for that.

So.. Maybe still CCP should spend some time for it one time in a year? Or maybe CCP should give players tools to create such events like tournament? I'm pretty sure there will be players who able to spend their time for that. Real life is a sandbox, too, though we have tournaments in it.

really hard to explain feeling not in native language, hope someone understand what i tried to say. i really love this game, may people excuse me for TLDR, probably my last post.

o/
Teddy KGB
3200
#7 - 2016-07-27 00:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Teddy KGB
[/quote]

There are some player-run tournaments already. EVE_NT for example. I don't know the details for any of them however as I don't follow new about them, I simply see them mentioned from time to time.
[/quote]

players have no tools to hold a tournament. so all projects are pretty dead..
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2016-07-27 01:21:14 UTC
If you want to encourage us to invest more heavily in tournaments the best thing you can do is show us that there is a demand by tuning in and encouraging your friends to do the same, and by tuning in and participating in player run tournaments like EVE_NT Collides.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#9 - 2016-07-27 08:27:20 UTC
Other than naturally occurring events like the battle of B-R5RB the Alliance Tournament is probably the single biggest external promotion that EVE gets and usually stays plastered the the front of twitch for its duration.

Even as pure marketing concern, why would CCP do anything but invest heavily into it and others?
Bei ArtJay
Better Off Red
Unspoken Alliance.
#10 - 2016-07-27 09:00:06 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Other than naturally occurring events like the battle of B-R5RB the Alliance Tournament is probably the single biggest external promotion that EVE gets and usually stays plastered the the front of twitch for its duration.

Even as pure marketing concern, why would CCP do anything but invest heavily into it and others?


Even on finals weekend it barely gets 3000-4000 viewers on a good day, so compared to other games (where a popular streamer can get that on a regular show) it's not a good IRL ISK investment from a marketing point of view. Even with a good chunk of the work being done voluntarily by CCP staff (yes, they probably put as much of their own time into these as players do), it still costs tens of thousands of dollars to run AT.

As Teddy says above without tools in the hands of players to make a match fair and relatively stress-free to run, the tournament community relies on CCP staff good will to keep running. You wouldn't believe the amount of behind the scenes effort to run one episode of EVE_NT collides smoothly, we are talking a team of 15-20 people each episode, not to mention the dozens of hours spent preparing each episode which is a lot of people hours that players are selflessly investing for the good of the community. Personally in the last year i have put hundreds of hours into running and producing tournaments, its a very time consuming process.

Hopefully that is changing soon, CCP Logibro, backed up by other members of the dev and community team see the important value of the tournament community as something that keeps bitter-vets interested in eve year to year and gives keen young PVP players an end game goal to work towards. Keep lobbying your CSM representatives to push CCP management for more support for these projects if you want to see more of them, and tune in to any and every broadcast of any tournament to demonstrate your interest, even if the production/content is amateurish - we all start somewhere!

Fingers crossed Thunderdome is as awesome as promised which enables players to run tournaments a lot more easily and fairly without having to rely on CCP, my hope is this will really enable the tournament community to take off and who knows, maybe next year they will be able to reserve some AT places for teams that have risen through the ranks of some more junior tournaments (my dream!).

Also Teddy that really sucks, as a team that emptied all our wallets last year to get I can relate to the stress as of only having one shot a year to try and get in, best of luck with the auction - having run into your megathrons on TQ, i think you guys would mae a great AT team.
Teddy KGB
3200
#11 - 2016-07-27 18:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Teddy KGB
Thank you, sir.
"gives keen young PVP players an end game goal to work towards." perfectly saied.
And again qualfications or like you saied "ranks of some more junior tournaments" will provide eve with clean uncomplicated and honor tournament. Sad thing that CCP look different at this question than players, and have different goals.
Hope still that something will change.
Kirillico
Raccoon Company
Bright Side of Death
#12 - 2016-07-27 18:27:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'd love to see us expand the number of teams that can participate someday if possible.


Many worthy teams could not and would not be able to get to the tournament, while half of the selected teams all the time in the game spends only in anomalies.

This draw for **** like the system itself. Good luck you CCP with such a crappy approach.
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2016-07-27 19:08:26 UTC
Kirillico wrote:
Many worthy teams could not and would not be able to get to the tournament, while half of the selected teams all the time in the game spends only in anomalies.

This draw for **** like the system itself. Good luck you CCP with such a crappy approach.

You are absolutely right. Who are these people to call themselves 'alliances'? I haven't heard of half of them!

Clearly the selection for an Alliance Tournament should be the top alliances in the game. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/memberCount
Teddy KGB
3200
#14 - 2016-07-27 19:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Teddy KGB
44 slots for random draw and 8 slots for auction. maybe CCP should have flipped this numbers???

I've just been offered to lead a chosen team at AT9. A man told me that both of their ALT ALLIANCE won the random draw! lol. Enjoy it CCP friends.. Perfect selection method!
\0/
Sinree
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2016-07-27 19:24:38 UTC
I think it's not constructive to just bash CCP now we have some information to go by. The best thing we can do as players is to either increase the demand to these types of events, or demonstrate it already exists.

The former can be achieved by hosting, attending or supporting tournaments, tuning in to watch AT and generally getting your corp mates interested in this sort of thing. For the latter, I'm not sure the demand currently exists looking at stream numbers alone.

I think that CCP have shown theyre willing to develop this sort of gameplay, as we saw the amarr tourny earlier. For me personally I'd rather do tournament style gameplay than regular gameplay, as those are the type of fights we try to find in eve.
Teddy KGB
3200
#16 - 2016-07-27 19:30:29 UTC
one team with two alliances pass the tournament. one - because i know only one. who knows how many teams gona play for 2 names..
Tzuko1
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-07-28 14:58:36 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
one team with two alliances pass the tournament. one - because i know only one. who knows how many teams gona play for 2 names..


Good luck with that after last year :)
O'nira
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-08-04 19:04:49 UTC
people asking for ccp to put more resources into this are funny, the twitch stream barely gets views(few thousands at most, eve has anywhere from 20-35k on at the same time) that should tell you how much actual demand there is for AT.

their resources are far better spent on the actual game development, they already spend to much effort on AT as it is IMO.

also OP you are a great fool. the lottery aspect of AT is pretty bad and "should" be fixed somehow but the cost is pretty nonexistant and should be increased if anything and that actually might justify putting more resources into AT as well since plex are income for ccp(assuming they actually use this income for AT)
Teddy KGB
3200
#19 - 2016-08-04 19:26:08 UTC
I'd prefer ccp made tournament tools instead of adding tactical destroyers.. lol