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Archon fitting for C4 WH sites?

Author
Wyndorn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-07-17 01:43:52 UTC
Hey all,

I'm pretty new to carriers and am considering building a carrier in my C4 WH system for ratting. I'm trying to stick to a non-bling fit that is cheaper than a well fitted marauder, both for practical reasons (i.e. reduce risk) and as somewhat of an experiment. For example, using most Tech 1 capital mods unless the t2 is cheap, etc.

I'm having trouble coming up with something that is both cap stable and can easily tank then 2200 max dps found in a C4 (I can work from there if a good fit is found). Anyone have a good fit or good ideas? Much appreciated. 50m to someone who does find me a good fit I got with! Lol

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2016-07-17 05:14:19 UTC
[Archon, C4 experiment]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Capital Cap Battery II
Capital Cap Battery II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I

Firbolg I x9
Firbolg I x9
Firbolg I x9

Tanks 2183 omni, stable at 55% with 50% neut resistance. Capital cap batteries are cheap enough (22mil) that you can ride those out. Rigs are 31mil each, which represents the biggest investment in the hull. FSUs are still pricey, so FSU IIs are pretty much out. You can throw on an NSA, but then you're no longer stable. More FSUs push the price, but they of course give you more damage. Smarties up top would also work fine but also destabilize your cap.

Damage from T1 Firbolgs is 2059. T2s bumps that to 2274. Respectable enough, I suppose.

You could quite easily invest in low-end deadspace hardeners or a C-type EANM or both. If you pump a bit of money in the tank you can drop the suitcase and add a DDA:

[Archon, C4 experiment spend a bit more]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Core B-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Core B-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Core B-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Centum B-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Capital Cap Battery II
Capital Cap Battery II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I

Firbolg II x9
Firbolg II x9
Firbolg II x9

Still stable at 55%, tanks 2197 again, but damage with Firbolg IIs is now 2679.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#3 - 2016-07-17 09:30:03 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
[Archon, C4 experiment]
...not enough purple...


That fit needs more purple. Purple all the thingies.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Wyndorn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-07-17 17:57:36 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
[Archon, C4 experiment]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Capital Cap Battery II
Capital Cap Battery II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I

Firbolg I x9
Firbolg I x9
Firbolg I x9

Tanks 2183 omni, stable at 55% with 50% neut resistance. Capital cap batteries are cheap enough (22mil) that you can ride those out. Rigs are 31mil each, which represents the biggest investment in the hull. FSUs are still pricey, so FSU IIs are pretty much out. You can throw on an NSA, but then you're no longer stable. More FSUs push the price, but they of course give you more damage. Smarties up top would also work fine but also destabilize your cap.

Damage from T1 Firbolgs is 2059. T2s bumps that to 2274. Respectable enough, I suppose.

You could quite easily invest in low-end deadspace hardeners or a C-type EANM or both. If you pump a bit of money in the tank you can drop the suitcase and add a DDA:

[Archon, C4 experiment spend a bit more]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Core B-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Core B-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Core B-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Centum B-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Capital Cap Battery II
Capital Cap Battery II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I

Firbolg II x9
Firbolg II x9
Firbolg II x9

Still stable at 55%, tanks 2197 again, but damage with Firbolg IIs is now 2679.



Curious, is there a specific reason for only 2 fighter support units aside from cost? I see a lot of fits running 3+
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2016-07-17 19:01:41 UTC
Wyndorn wrote:
Curious, is there a specific reason for only 2 fighter support units aside from cost? I see a lot of fits running 3+


No reason. They're basically damage mods, so 2 is the fewest you'd prefer. 3+ hits diminishing returns but for PvE more damage is better. They're just 60ish mil compared to DDAs, which come in at ~1mil.
Wyndorn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-07-17 22:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyndorn
Thanks again for the reply.

So I'm a bit confused. It seems like fighters don't have tracking speed anymore? What is the tracking link actually doing to fighters?

EDIT: Nevermind, it says on the module: "Improves the optimal range, falloff range, explosion radius and explosion velocity of all fighter weapons."
Mister Holder
Faceless Men
#7 - 2016-07-24 23:37:42 UTC
Are carriers viable for soloing C4s now? Haven't paid much mind to them before, or after the changes that have been made.
Wyndorn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-07-25 03:11:16 UTC
Mister Holder wrote:
Are carriers viable for soloing C4s now? Haven't paid much mind to them before, or after the changes that have been made.


Oh, very easily. A bit over-kill really (which is kind of the point).
afk phone
Repo Industries
#9 - 2016-07-26 12:05:32 UTC
The C4 spawns are so far away. Travel time is pretty ICK for drones/fighters. I'm all for solo C4 carrier ratting, but if you're bringing a friend consider a pair of nightmares. Just better in so many ways.

The WH solo carrier ratting sweet spot right now is C5s. (first off - you can jump into a c5, you have to build carriers in C4) Since the large wh corps helped CCP 'fix' escallations - C5s are a vacant wasteland - sadly for good reason. All that aside - if you have to solo carrier rat in a wh - C5 is currently the way to go. If you're an emperium refugee trying to find some solo carrier ratting like the good old days - don't bother going to wh - you guys are getting slaughtered in wh space. It's not safe and you have to know things - a lot of things. (PRO TIP - you can't n+1 wh space - especially post escalation 'fix')

Fyt 284
Requiem Eternal Holdings
#10 - 2016-08-03 12:04:24 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Wyndorn wrote:
Curious, is there a specific reason for only 2 fighter support units aside from cost? I see a lot of fits running 3+


No reason. They're basically damage mods, so 2 is the fewest you'd prefer. 3+ hits diminishing returns but for PvE more damage is better. They're just 60ish mil compared to DDAs, which come in at ~1mil.



DDAs are a direct fighter damage bonus whereas FSUs are ROF + fighter tank. I would have 3 FSUs on any fit, especially since fighters seem to get targeted pretty hard by NPCs.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#11 - 2016-08-04 16:35:17 UTC
what specific C4 will you be ratting with in a carrier?

Asking for reasons.
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#12 - 2016-08-07 12:23:37 UTC
Oh Great Bob here's a better fit for an archon.

[Archon, C4 experiment copy 1]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Capital Armor Repairer I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Capital Cap Battery II
Capital Cap Battery II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I

Firbolg I x9
Firbolg I x9
Firbolg I x9


500 more dps than previous fit linked, tanks 2700 dps cold 2 reppers for 17 minutes cap, 1350 58% cap stable. drop a mobile depot and refit more cap/tank if you're in that dire needs, bring spares. About same coust around 2.1 bil.

If you're feeling a bit more adventurous cap inject instead of batteries - that could be fun.

You really won't be neuted out by the c4 nps with double cap batteries. You benefit more from a painter and a flight nav comp in mids imo. Chuck whatever you want in the spare highs. Would benefit from light pimpage with faction tank.
Wyndorn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-08-08 21:07:10 UTC
Fyt 284 wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
[quote=Wyndorn]Curious, is there a specific reason for only 2 fighter support units aside from cost? I see a lot of fits running 3+


... especially since fighters seem to get targeted pretty hard by NPCs.


You weren't kidding, I can't keep the aggro off them! Its actually so bad that I'm thinking of just going back to a marauder, lol. Going to try drone nav upgrades just to see if it will help them speed-tank... the cruiser waves just annihilate them.
Jita Stewart
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-08-10 14:47:44 UTC
The aggro is bad. So bad in fact that I have to mentally force myself to rat in the carrier now. Which is sad because I trained off and on for a long time to get to that Holiest of Holy's, took a bored break, came back and BAM...fighters only. First anomaly my drones were aggroing like crazy. Bring em in, drop them, bring them in, drop them. Bah. hopped in the Ishtar.... you know the rest. It sux because my toons have been Drone toons for years. Sad to see that era slowly die .
Wyndorn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-08-15 19:29:01 UTC
Jita Stewart wrote:
The aggro is bad. So bad in fact that I have to mentally force myself to rat in the carrier now. Which is sad because I trained off and on for a long time to get to that Holiest of Holy's, took a bored break, came back and BAM...fighters only. First anomaly my drones were aggroing like crazy. Bring em in, drop them, bring them in, drop them. Bah. hopped in the Ishtar.... you know the rest. It sux because my toons have been Drone toons for years. Sad to see that era slowly die .


Alright, after some testing, using 2 drone navigation units has made a HUGE difference in helping them survive cruiser waves. Frigs still hit em pretty hard, but I just started running a smartbomb for em.