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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#981 - 2016-08-04 08:44:40 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Right Drac you say I'm twisting the story, the evidence is right on the killmail, you brought that fit into the discussion, it doesn't work without the green afterburner so if that qualifies as a T2 fit you are completely ignoring the fact that it cost 25 mil and could have just as easily dropped. The amount of paste he was carrying was certainly questionable if you are a penny pincher but if you're not, it's not really that unreasonable and is also part of the fit. The fact of the matter is, it was a profitable gank.


That was the only one to hand, it had no tank and was largely T2 fit, the fact is that had it been a T2 AB that would be about 2.4m.

The fact is that the T2 fit would not have given a profit, and I have always said it is the cargo that matters, and you just agreed with me on that subject. There is nothing wrong in making profit from the cargo, but to expect to make a profit from a T2 fit ship is just wrong.

It was profitable due to the cargo, simple as that.

Flip, flip, flip, flop.

Earlier you claimed that very kill was not profitable "working as intended".

You were full of BS as usual.

Now claiming if it was fit differently it wouldn't have been profitable means nothing. It was fit as it was and was profitable despite your lies.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#982 - 2016-08-04 08:45:41 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


It is stupid to describe what CCP add and what players add as both being content. It is just your oversimplification of the word due to a limited vocabulary. By your definition even chatting to someone in local is content... which is really dumb.


First off no it is not stupid. If I make a batch of T2 guns and players buy them and go have fun with them, I am helping them have fun....I am providing something not CCP. CCP provided the environment and the rules by which I could provide other players T2 guns, but CCP did not.

Your problem is you just don't understand what spontaneous order is. That is what this game is about. Let people into the game universe with some simple rules/mechanics and see what they do.

Coalitions, BTW are an example of spontaneous order. Rental empires in NS, more spontaneous order. Players getting together and coming up with things that do not have a mechanic in game that would ensure their existence.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#983 - 2016-08-04 08:47:29 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

1. In chess you know everything about your opponent and he knows everything about you. In Eve that is probably not true.
2. In chess there are predefined movements and you each tack turns. In Eve there are no predefined movements and you can and often do act simultaneously.
3. There is not much room for innovation in chess. In Eve if you do something nobody has thought of before you can gain an advantage.


It is all relative. EVE is chess only on a bigger board, with more pieces, more moves and more players. We rely on the developers to expand our game of chess through the introduction of new content. Still, there is a finite number of moves we can make.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#984 - 2016-08-04 08:52:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Rek Seven wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:

Non of that is in-game content


Sure was content for me....in game. I was at several Burn Jita events. I fought in the war that brought down the Imperium. So yeah, it sure was content for me.


No it was an entertaining activity for you.

Keep calling it content all you like but it is not that.


No, it is content. Content is intended to entertain, amuse, provide enjoyment. That is what those things did. There for it is content.

Oh, and yeah local can provide content. Once in a system some scrub was popping out cans and baiting people left and right. Finally an older players asked him in local something like, "Is there a reason you are popping out all these cans or are you completely incontinent?" Made me laugh. Good enough for me.

Here, you say content is something provided by the game developer. Okay, and it is provided to....the reason for it is....provide entertainment, amusement and enjoyment? Why can't other players provide that? Especially in a game where there are very few limits on player interaction...unlike other games like WoW.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#985 - 2016-08-04 08:52:57 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:

Non of that is in-game content.


Its all content.

My pet hobby of never not flying a megathron is content for me and others. CCP had nothing to do with it.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#986 - 2016-08-04 08:53:32 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

1. In chess you know everything about your opponent and he knows everything about you. In Eve that is probably not true.
2. In chess there are predefined movements and you each tack turns. In Eve there are no predefined movements and you can and often do act simultaneously.
3. There is not much room for innovation in chess. In Eve if you do something nobody has thought of before you can gain an advantage.


It is all relative. EVE is chess only on a bigger board, with more pieces, more moves and more players. We rely on the developers to expand our game of chess through the introduction of new content. Still, there is a finite number of moves we can make.


Load of utter bullcrap.

Can chess pieces disappear? Can the rook light a cyno and call in 50 friends? Can one of your own pieces turn on you and take your king? No!?!?!

My goodness.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#987 - 2016-08-04 08:54:45 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


It is stupid to describe what CCP add and what players add as both being content. It is just your oversimplification of the word due to a limited vocabulary. By your definition even chatting to someone in local is content... which is really dumb.


First off no it is not stupid. If I make a batch of T2 guns and players buy them and go have fun with them, I am helping them have fun....I am providing something not CCP. CCP provided the environment and the rules by which I could provide other players T2 guns, but CCP did not.

Your problem is you just don't understand what spontaneous order is. That is what this game is about. Let people into the game universe with some simple rules/mechanics and see what they do.

Coalitions, BTW are an example of spontaneous order. Rental empires in NS, more spontaneous order. Players getting together and coming up with things that do not have a mechanic in game that would ensure their existence.



It is not me who lacks understanding here. I understand your point perfectly - i simply disagree we should use the word content to describe player actions instead of being specific.

Without CCP you would have no T2 guns to provide. Yes the act of you manufacturing them and the trading them to another player is a fun activity but it is only possible because the game has been designed to allow you to do that.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#988 - 2016-08-04 08:56:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

1. In chess you know everything about your opponent and he knows everything about you. In Eve that is probably not true.
2. In chess there are predefined movements and you each tack turns. In Eve there are no predefined movements and you can and often do act simultaneously.
3. There is not much room for innovation in chess. In Eve if you do something nobody has thought of before you can gain an advantage.


It is all relative. EVE is chess only on a bigger board, with more pieces, more moves and more players. We rely on the developers to expand our game of chess through the introduction of new content. Still, there is a finite number of moves we can make.


Load of utter bullcrap.

Can chess pieces disappear? Can the rook light a cyno and call in 50 friends? Can one of your own pieces turn on you and take your king? No!?!?!

My goodness.


Again you miss the point... but to answer your question, Yes - in a world where chess has been expanded to the point where it has become eve online, all those things can happen.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#989 - 2016-08-04 08:59:15 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


It is stupid to describe what CCP add and what players add as both being content. It is just your oversimplification of the word due to a limited vocabulary. By your definition even chatting to someone in local is content... which is really dumb.


First off no it is not stupid. If I make a batch of T2 guns and players buy them and go have fun with them, I am helping them have fun....I am providing something not CCP. CCP provided the environment and the rules by which I could provide other players T2 guns, but CCP did not.

Your problem is you just don't understand what spontaneous order is. That is what this game is about. Let people into the game universe with some simple rules/mechanics and see what they do.

Coalitions, BTW are an example of spontaneous order. Rental empires in NS, more spontaneous order. Players getting together and coming up with things that do not have a mechanic in game that would ensure their existence.



It is not me who lacks understanding here. I understand your point perfectly - i simply disagree we should use the word content to describe player actions instead of being specific.

Without CCP you would have no T2 guns to provide. Yes the act of you manufacturing them and the trading them to another player is a fun activity but it is only possible because the game has been designed to allow you to do that.


Yes, I already noted that. You are not quite keeping up are you. See that sentence where I wrote, "CCP provided the environment and rules..."?

My doing something in game that allows other players to do something in game...presumably we both find those thing enjoyable...that's content. Doesn't matter if I provide it or CCP. In fact, with CCP not providing it and leaving it up to players it creates all sorts of opportunities for additional player interaction...like CODE. trying to gank my JF or some such.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#990 - 2016-08-04 09:01:36 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

1. In chess you know everything about your opponent and he knows everything about you. In Eve that is probably not true.
2. In chess there are predefined movements and you each tack turns. In Eve there are no predefined movements and you can and often do act simultaneously.
3. There is not much room for innovation in chess. In Eve if you do something nobody has thought of before you can gain an advantage.


It is all relative. EVE is chess only on a bigger board, with more pieces, more moves and more players. We rely on the developers to expand our game of chess through the introduction of new content. Still, there is a finite number of moves we can make.


Load of utter bullcrap.

Can chess pieces disappear? Can the rook light a cyno and call in 50 friends? Can one of your own pieces turn on you and take your king? No!?!?!

My goodness.


Again you miss the point... but to answer your question, Yes - in a world where chess has been expanded to the point where it has become eve online, all those things can happen.


Okay, how come only CCP can provide content? What is to stop players from providing content--i.e. things to do in game?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#991 - 2016-08-04 09:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Teckos Pech wrote:


Yes, I already noted that. You are not quite keeping up are you. See that sentence where I wrote, "CCP provided the environment and rules..."?

My doing something in game that allows other players to do something in game...presumably we both find those thing enjoyable...that's content. Doesn't matter if I provide it or CCP. In fact, with CCP not providing it and leaving it up to players it creates all sorts of opportunities for additional player interaction...like CODE. trying to gank my JF or some such.


Then call it what it is instead of using the catch all word "content".

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#992 - 2016-08-04 09:04:11 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:

Non of that is in-game content


Sure was content for me....in game. I was at several Burn Jita events. I fought in the war that brought down the Imperium. So yeah, it sure was content for me.


No it was an entertaining activity for you.

Keep calling it content all you like but it is not that.


No, it is content. Content is intended to entertain, amuse, provide enjoyment. That is what those things did. There for it is content.

Oh, and yeah local can provide content. Once in a system some scrub was popping out cans and baiting people left and right. Finally an older players asked him in local something like, "Is there a reason you are popping out all these cans or are you completely incontinent?" Made me laugh. Good enough for me.

Here, you say content is something provided by the game developer. Okay, and it is provided to....the reason for it is....provide entertainment, amusement and enjoyment? Why can't other players provide that? Especially in a game where there are very few limits on player interaction...unlike other games like WoW.


I played WoW for several years and there was pvp, market and so on made by players.

Some persons here tend to feel themselves as a niche of special players, it's quite wrong.

It's a one server game with a little population so it's normal that things are recerded more and so on.

WoW has a huge amount of serves, every single ones had a story and things made by players.

I was "ganked" many times when I was playing vanilla Wow, there were dangerous areas, dangerous guilds and so on, then some rules made it all less severe, but it's another thing...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#993 - 2016-08-04 09:05:30 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Then call it what it is instead of using the catch all word "content".


What the **** do you call it then?

If CCP gives you something to do in game....oooohhh it is content. Wow.

A player gives you something to do in game and it is.....? Shall we call Beverly?

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#994 - 2016-08-04 09:07:18 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


Then call it what it is instead of using the catch all word "content".


Just to point out

EVE Online
11 September 2013 · Atlanta, GA, United States ·
Player-made content is the best content in gaming.
The second of Gamesradar's articles exploring the Fountain War.

CCP do not agree with you.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#995 - 2016-08-04 09:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Lucy Lollipops wrote:


I played WoW for several years and there was pvp, market and so on made by players.

Some persons here tend to feel themselves as a niche of special players, it's quite wrong.

It's a one server game with a little population so it's normal that things are recerded more and so on.

WoW has a huge amount of serves, every single ones had a story and things made by players.

I was "ganked" many times when I was playing vanilla Wow, there were dangerous areas, dangerous guilds and so on, then some rules made it all less severe, but it's another thing...




WoW has very little Beverly made by players. Players pretty much ignore each other except in special circumstances that have limited objectives set up by the the developers.

Granted, there is still player generated Beverly (happy Rek Seven?) but it is minimal.

Eve is the exact opposite. CCP provides very little content and relies on players to provide Beverly.

BTW, in case you are confused, calling player generated content content upsets Rek Seven, so to spare his feelings I'm calling player generated content Beverly. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#996 - 2016-08-04 09:11:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


Then call it what it is instead of using the catch all word "content".


Just to point out

EVE Online
11 September 2013 · Atlanta, GA, United States ·
Player-made content is the best content in gaming.
The second of Gamesradar's articles exploring the Fountain War.

CCP do not agree with you.


I guess CCP doesn't get the point either.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#997 - 2016-08-04 09:14:07 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Okay, how come only CCP can provide content? What is to stop players from providing content--i.e. things to do in game?


1. because only CCP have the ability to fundamentally change the mechanics of the game or add in a new features/content

2. Nothing is stopping players from providing in-game activities and experiencing and interacting with the content provided by ccp.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#998 - 2016-08-04 09:19:07 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Right Drac you say I'm twisting the story, the evidence is right on the killmail, you brought that fit into the discussion, it doesn't work without the green afterburner so if that qualifies as a T2 fit you are completely ignoring the fact that it cost 25 mil and could have just as easily dropped. The amount of paste he was carrying was certainly questionable if you are a penny pincher but if you're not, it's not really that unreasonable and is also part of the fit. The fact of the matter is, it was a profitable gank.


That was the only one to hand, it had no tank and was largely T2 fit, the fact is that had it been a T2 AB that would be about 2.4m.

The fact is that the T2 fit would not have given a profit, and I have always said it is the cargo that matters, and you just agreed with me on that subject. There is nothing wrong in making profit from the cargo, but to expect to make a profit from a T2 fit ship is just wrong.

It was profitable due to the cargo, simple as that.

Flip, flip, flip, flop.

Earlier you claimed that very kill was not profitable "working as intended".

You were full of BS as usual.

Now claiming if it was fit differently it wouldn't have been profitable means nothing. It was fit as it was and was profitable despite your lies.


T2 fit which is correct, do I have to explain every bit of detail to people like you Roll So much for having a PhD, is it in being stupid...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#999 - 2016-08-04 09:20:53 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Then call it what it is instead of using the catch all word "content".


What the **** do you call it then?

If CCP gives you something to do in game....oooohhh it is content. Wow.

A player gives you something to do in game and it is.....? Shall we call Beverly?

Roll



If that "something to do" is mining, call it mining, if it's shooting someone call it a fight or PVP, if CCP say "we are adding wormholes" call that a content expansion. Blink

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1000 - 2016-08-04 09:25:35 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Then call it what it is instead of using the catch all word "content".


What the **** do you call it then?

If CCP gives you something to do in game....oooohhh it is content. Wow.

A player gives you something to do in game and it is.....? Shall we call Beverly?

Roll



If that "something to do" is mining, call it mining, if it's shooting someone call it a fight or PVP, if CCP say "we are adding wormholes" call that a content expansion. Blink


Exactly.

It happens that in this game there are players ( usually gankers ) that seem to show off what they do claiming that what they do is special and that they "are creating content".

No, they aren't and they are not special at all, they are playing the game exactly as everyone else.