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Conclave of Providence Concludes

Author
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#21 - 2016-08-03 12:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
The militia does not equate to the Empire proper. Further, the standings hit is likely from Amarr militia members coming to Providence intending to do harm, and due to CONCORD rules any action against these individuals results in a standings hit.

I'm sure your own alliance members buying their way to +10 standings with CONCORD results in those little misunderstandings from suicide ganking just disappearing since they're the best of buddies. Oh wait, it doesn't, because the entire DED sponsored standings system Capsuleers have to put up with is broken.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Arrendis
TK Corp
#22 - 2016-08-03 14:00:43 UTC
No, the militia certainly doesn't equate to the Empire proper, and CONCORD's rules are often ridiculous and silly.

That said, this communique doesn't seem to have come from CONCORD or the Militia. As a result, I find myself wondering what this expulsion from the Empire means for CVA, whether there are going to be penalties for the (apparently) single corporation that's caused this, and if CVA will be working to attempt to regain their position within the Empire.

For example, does this forcible expulsion mean CVA members have had their legal standing within the Empire tarnished? Are there citizenship issues that arise? Possessions or even Holdings that might be forfeit if the relationship isn't repaired within a certain amount of time?

CVA was personally recognized and thanked for their service by the late Empress - now they've been formally pushed out of the Empire entirely. That's a significant fall from grace in a very short time. I'm sure you can understand why it raises a fair number of questions.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#23 - 2016-08-03 14:10:19 UTC
This reminds me of these post-grad journalists who just got their new job and are eager to get any kind of sensation while being total asses.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#24 - 2016-08-03 14:25:49 UTC
So people aren't allowed to ask questions? I mean, it's not like CVA just led - and publicized - a focused effort to clearly rededicate and state Providence's loyalty and unity with the Amarr Empire right before getting kicked out of it or anything... oh, wait.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#25 - 2016-08-03 14:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaret Victorian
You are forgetting something - I am not a part of CVA, so please, do me a favor and don't misinterpret my words.

And by the way, how did you get access to these mails, care to explain?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#26 - 2016-08-03 15:14:31 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
You are forgetting something - I am not a part of CVA, so please, do me a favor and don't misinterpret my words.

And by the way, how did you get access to these mails, care to explain?


Never said you are. You are, after all, clearly a member of the Arataka Research Consortium. Sure, it's 3 letters, but 'ARC' and 'CVA' only share a single initial, and it's in the exact opposite position. That, however, has no bearing on whether or not what you said comes across as attempting to deflect questioning and imply that there's clearly no actual substance to this matter, and that anyone asking about it would have to be 'total asses'.

As for how I got access to this communication - it was sent to me by someone I trust, who thought it was amusing. I don't. I actually find it very worrisome. I'm pretty sure the matter's gone public on other areas of GalNet as well.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#27 - 2016-08-03 16:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
The mail itself is a standard mail sent out to any and all groups or individuals ejected from the militia. As much as you seem to be taking advantage of the wording, I can assure you it means nothing to do with the Empire proper. Have you ever joined Faction Warfare? Most who are a part of it would be quite aware of this fact.

Further, last I check my personal standings to the Empire have not changed in the slightest, nor has Pentag Blade's, nor Calvu's nor TLOS or anyone else by this effect. I'm still in the comfortably "excellent" category.

As for citizenship, again no. Nothing has changed for my personal circumstances, I'm still a legal vassal of the Avarr family and an Imperial subject.

To further the point how you've gotten the complete wrong end of the stick, when we joined the militia we were welcomed to the "Amarr Empire faction". At no point did the Empire's proper authorities take charge of the Providence region, as one would expect were CVA to become an official organisation within the Empire, so that leaves me thinking the "Amarr Empire faction" in question refers to which faction one is privateering for within the Militia War.

Again, if you had experience within Faction Warfare you might have figured that one for yourself as well. I guess a few months as the largest lowsec alliance in New Eden wasn't sufficient education, perhaps Goonswarm could take a tour with the State much like TEST did before it?

Anyways, what exactly do our standings have to do with the Conclave? Whether the Empire accepts us or not (and clearly our leaving the militia has nothing to do with our relations with the Empire proper as outlined) it is still, and always will be, our ambition to have the Providence region annexed.

(Oh and if you were wondering, some of the corporations in CVA had negative standings to the Empire at the time of the Unity event, but that didn't stop the Amarr Navy singing the alliance's praises!)

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#28 - 2016-08-03 16:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaret Victorian
Arrendis, do you always overdo that snarky routine?
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#29 - 2016-08-03 16:36:11 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Arrendis, do you always overdo that snarky routine?

I think it goes hand in hand with charging tolls for crossing bridges. As entertaining as it has been, my mother always warned me about feeding tall, odd looking creatures who demand payment to cross rivers. Apparently they make a side income posting terribly in threads on the GalNet as well!

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Arrendis
TK Corp
#30 - 2016-08-03 17:18:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Utari Onzo wrote:
The mail itself is a standard mail sent out to any and all groups or individuals ejected from the militia. As much as you seem to be taking advantage of the wording, I can assure you it means nothing to do with the Empire proper. Have you ever joined Faction Warfare? Most who are a part of it would be quite aware of this fact.


No, I haven't - nor have I ever claimed any knowledge of the workings of those mechanics. It's kind of why I ask questions, you know?

I'm glad to hear that this hasn't affected your status within the Empire on a personal level, or that of anyone else within the alliance. That is actually very good news, and goes a long way toward settling my concerns - which centered largely on the status of individuals of my acquaintance whom I've not been able to get in direct contact with since hearing of this. Now that I know I don't have to worry about their well-being on this account, I can turn my attention to other potential concerns that I have.

Quote:

To further the point how you've gotten the complete wrong end of the stick, when we joined the militia we were welcomed to the "Amarr Empire faction". At no point did the Empire's proper authorities take charge of the Providence region, as one would expect were CVA to become an official organisation within the Empire, so that leaves me thinking the "Amarr Empire faction" in question refers to which faction one is privateering for within the Militia War.

Again, if you had experience within Faction Warfare you might have figured that one for yourself as well. I guess a few months as the largest lowsec alliance in New Eden wasn't sufficient education, perhaps Goonswarm could take a tour with the State much like TEST did before it?


Again, have I claimed to have knowledge of the Faction Warfare system? I asked you questions - sincere, honest questions that arose from what - for someone who does not have your relatively specialized knowledge (even if most of the active individuals here on the IGS are FW veterans, most of the capsuleers of New Eden are not) - seemed to me an unclear answer to my original inquiry. I do apologize, though, for not being able to infer from your initial statement all of the intricacies of bureaucracies I've never dealt with. In the future, I will certainly try to be more psychic.

As far as trolling goes - I would think that my past, very public, discussions with both the Cardinal and Samira Kernher have demonstrated that when I ask questions about matters with which I'm unfamiliar, it's because I sincerely want the answers. But at least now I can rest assured that you are more interested in pontificating and passing judgment than actually helping people understand things.

And Jaret:
Quote:

Arrendis, do you always overdo that snarky routine?


I can only ever be myself.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#31 - 2016-08-03 17:21:59 UTC
Your faux concern is noted Arrendis. Considering how all knowing the Directors of Goonswarm are reported to be, it's refreshing to see one admit they didn't have a clue what they were on about

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Arrendis
TK Corp
#32 - 2016-08-03 17:28:31 UTC
All-knowing, Urari, is something I have never claimed to be. My field of expertise is fairly specialized, and if someone comes to me with a question about it, I am more than happy to take them seriously. I generally expect others to behave the same. My apologies for overestimating your willingness to be helpful.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#33 - 2016-08-03 17:37:22 UTC
You asked, I answered. I think that was quite helpful myself.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Arrendis
TK Corp
#34 - 2016-08-03 17:44:35 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
You asked, I answered. I think that was quite helpful myself.


And when I asked follow-up questions, you denigrated and maligned my concerns, offering insult and dismissal. I can respect your opinion of the Swarm, Utari, but backpedaling now and acting like you weren't just as much of a jackass as you tried to paint me to be doesn't speak well of your convictions.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#35 - 2016-08-03 17:55:32 UTC
No backpeddling here. You seem to think I care about whether I'm a jackass or that you're an obvious concern troll. I don't, I just find it hilarious seeing you keep up the act. But all good things must come to an end, I have a University to help run so I'll leave you to it.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#36 - 2016-08-10 21:24:12 UTC
I have a question regarding "Protection of Faith". Are these rules set to baseliners or capsuleers alike? I assume they should involve capsule pilots, since there was a reference to pilots under the section of "Enemies of the Amarr Empire", though word capsule wasn't stated explicitly.

Is there or will there be a procedure for reporting (capsule) pilots for the violation of the Act?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#37 - 2016-08-11 09:13:50 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
I have a question regarding "Protection of Faith". Are these rules set to baseliners or capsuleers alike? I assume they should involve capsule pilots, since there was a reference to pilots under the section of "Enemies of the Amarr Empire", though word capsule wasn't stated explicitly.

Is there or will there be a procedure for reporting (capsule) pilots for the violation of the Act?


I have already answered this very question in a reply to the mail you sent me. The Conclave's recommendations are exactly that, recommendations that require ratification by the Holder Alliances, which requires time to happen. Once it is ratified it will be up to the individual Holder Alliances to enforce it and supply the proceedures for sanctions where required.

To answer the question on capsuleers and baseliners the Act applies to both who are resident within the region. If the individual is not a resident of the region there is not much any organisation in Providence can do outside censure and possibly setting the individual Kill on Sight should they enter Providence's borders. However, as it is not within the jurisdiction of Providence, it is unlikely that any coalition member would seek to try to apply sanctions on an individual not resident within the region.

I'll recommend here exactly what I recommended in my mail and that is to contact the High Inquisitor and await his answer if you were to have sufficient evidence of an Amarr citizen behaving in a heretical fashion. If the individual is a Providence resident you may present your case also with the KoS admins who can be found in the CVA alliance's diplomatic router channel, bearing in mind the Act has not yet been ratified of course.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#38 - 2016-08-11 16:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizage
Arrendis wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
You asked, I answered. I think that was quite helpful myself.


And when I asked follow-up questions, you denigrated and maligned my concerns, offering insult and dismissal. I can respect your opinion of the Swarm, Utari, but backpedaling now and acting like you weren't just as much of a jackass as you tried to paint me to be doesn't speak well of your convictions.



Acting like a jackass Ms. Arrendis is barging into a topic about a specific document on hand and expecting answers for something entirely different.

Acting like a jackass Ms. Arrendis, is then once the original poster was so kind as to try and answer that you continue to grill him further.

Acting like a jackass Ms. Arrendis, is then calling the original poster a jackass after he get rightfully frustrated after you've derailed what should have been a discussion about a single document into a bickering back and forth over interpretations.

It's very clear from your first post Ms. Arrendis that you came her uninterested in the actual topic on hand. Next time perhaps make your own post looking for answers instead of hijacking someone else's.

Because Ms. Arrendis, the only one acting like a jackass here, is you.

Regards

K.Amsel
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#39 - 2016-08-11 17:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: John Revenent
It is best to ignore Arrendis and those of her ilk. Something I've learned some time ago she has little to offer to any conversation then a stick to stir still water.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2016-08-13 23:07:17 UTC
Ugh this morning when I browsed all of my local papers from back home I found an article from a neighboring holder's territory linking me with Sani Sabik because I do business in Providence. They claim evidence of this because of all the capsuleers you've elevated to church leaders in the region, when the Theology Council has never ruled on our status, and because of the opening of this document. Why would anyone refer to the Traditionalist count as "the year of our Lord"? Also known as the Empyrean count it has nothing to do with God in fact it has more to do with Godlessness according to the popular opinion these days.

You should use the old year system, ie: 23354 in any Amarrian specific documents evoking the Lord of Amarr.

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴

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