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Trading reform

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Cytherea Deesse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-08-02 16:44:32 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
I represent a group of hi sec players who's sole purpose is to destroy each other over the right to make pot noodles in the sacred tea pot. As such, I have a problem with these trade hours. My group fights in hi sec from the end of downtime right up till it begins the next day. We fight in a small part of hi sec where we basically enjoy turning eve into our own strange first person shooter (hence the names Red vs Blue).

The problem with your time zone mechanic is that it screws our style of play. People need to purchase items from our local area constantly. Need a new ship quick, but it local. This occurs at all hours of the day. And we have traders who enjoy stocking our market. Each player tends to find a trading niche to fill. One may supply ammo, another hulls. Your proposal would screw over 3/4 of our traders because only one group would fit these hours leaving the rest screwed. Why should we give up our current style just to fit your desire? It seems to actually greatly limit our little market.

Now let's carry this further... I play mainly at night in the US. However at breakfast each morning, I can login and spend 10 minutes fixing orders. To meet your system I would have to make orders in one region and play in another which adds way too much travel time turning a fun game into a grind. Why?

I'm sorry but I do not think your time zone idea reflects the global nature of corps in eve. Many are strung out across all time zones. Limitng which zones get to play where seems to go against the idea of an open sand box. Why do it?


I was thinking bit the same - That it would mean alot of traveling around just to update orders or that people would have to drop corp (if you only have 1 toon) so you can go live in the place where the market is open when you are on.

The question about null sec would also need to be adressed - What would their opening hours be?

Also what hinders ppl who is already wealthy to just continue as usual? They will just cirmunvent the 1 order pr. day update, by making younger toons and split their isk out?
Princess Adhara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2016-08-02 16:47:37 UTC
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
KaarBaak wrote:
TL;DR--

"People don't play the game the same way I do, so please change the mechanics CCP."


Is that about correct? Just wanted to make sure I was correct in lumping you in with the "anti-gank HS miners" and "delayed local" folk.

KB


You are individual that makes assumption regarding individual rather than constructively criticising the idea. So idea will live as long as people like you won't deal with the ideas. Your mindset is dangerous, including for yourself, and I am talking about real life as well.


The only dangerous behavior I see here is jumping too quickly from a game discussion to a RL one.
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#43 - 2016-08-02 17:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: William Legrand-Marx
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Cytherea Deesse wrote:
This is a roleplay game , may I suggest, that you roleplay when you login?

So when you login you just roleplay that Jita has just opened, Amarr is in the after market, while Rens and Hek are closed for buisness for the day.

Why do you need realism in a roleplay game?


When company makes it as real as possible, it is hard not to ask for more. Unless you like shallow experience...
Such games are not very real to make them less hard than reality you try to escape but make them interesting enough to be entertained.

If you think that the market system of EVE is "realistic"...you must shop at different stores than I do...


"I honestly believe that there are a lot of things happening in Eve Online that are a good direction for real life economists to look at, study and use." - Eyjó G.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eve-online-meet-man-controlling-18-million-space-economy-1447437

They must have hired him to sweep the floors of the office, right?

EDIT: And of course my favourite...

"We function as a national economics institute, statistics office and central bank giving advice to government, with the government being the developers and us being the monitoring authority."

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#44 - 2016-08-02 17:30:49 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
as one man said: "I am here to destroy your game..."

I see the OP has edited his first post to reflect his true intentions - his goal is to destroy "our game" - aka: EVE Online


Oh, you are so silly and naive... please, tell me more.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#45 - 2016-08-02 17:43:13 UTC
Cytherea Deesse wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
I represent a group of hi sec players who's sole purpose is to destroy each other over the right to make pot noodles in the sacred tea pot. As such, I have a problem with these trade hours. My group fights in hi sec from the end of downtime right up till it begins the next day. We fight in a small part of hi sec where we basically enjoy turning eve into our own strange first person shooter (hence the names Red vs Blue).

The problem with your time zone mechanic is that it screws our style of play. People need to purchase items from our local area constantly. Need a new ship quick, but it local. This occurs at all hours of the day. And we have traders who enjoy stocking our market. Each player tends to find a trading niche to fill. One may supply ammo, another hulls. Your proposal would screw over 3/4 of our traders because only one group would fit these hours leaving the rest screwed. Why should we give up our current style just to fit your desire? It seems to actually greatly limit our little market.

Now let's carry this further... I play mainly at night in the US. However at breakfast each morning, I can login and spend 10 minutes fixing orders. To meet your system I would have to make orders in one region and play in another which adds way too much travel time turning a fun game into a grind. Why?

I'm sorry but I do not think your time zone idea reflects the global nature of corps in eve. Many are strung out across all time zones. Limitng which zones get to play where seems to go against the idea of an open sand box. Why do it?


I was thinking bit the same - That it would mean alot of traveling around just to update orders or that people would have to drop corp (if you only have 1 toon) so you can go live in the place where the market is open when you are on.

The question about null sec would also need to be adressed - What would their opening hours be?

Also what hinders ppl who is already wealthy to just continue as usual? They will just cirmunvent the 1 order pr. day update, by making younger toons and split their isk out?


1. Jump clones
2. I dont see how it will affect your gameplay?
3. So wait, every day you play at different hour? Because, when I see recruitment topic of mainly EU TZ or mainly US TZ I must be getting something wrong out of it.
4. Travelling to update orders? R u still doing it? Travelling where? Remote market changes skills are for what?
5. Jump clones again.
6. Null sec yet again, can get its times claimed by those who own it. WH and sov space by the powers controlling it within and npc nulls by rules affecting empire secs and this is just an example.
7. Again you will need a lot of toons to keep it up, pay for them and so forth and also it will make them trade in a different spectrum of goods as I explained in previous replies. Just read other replies.
8. Again, why do you need to meet "my system" by travelling? Seriously, do you even trade?

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#46 - 2016-08-02 17:45:14 UTC
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Features and Ideas forum area is that way -->




Sorry, but this is general discussion.



Yes, and this is the wrong forum for your thinly-veiled advertisement of your trading 'guild' scamtasm.


scamtasm


scamtasm


scamtasm

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#47 - 2016-08-02 17:50:49 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Features and Ideas forum area is that way -->




Sorry, but this is general discussion.



Yes, and this is the wrong forum for your thinly-veiled advertisement of your trading 'guild' scamtasm.


scamtasm


scamtasm


scamtasm


Hmmm a new word to use.

--Gadget scamtasms at the sight of Mustache... Then has a cigarette.

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#48 - 2016-08-02 18:15:13 UTC
+1

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#49 - 2016-08-02 18:19:20 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Features and Ideas forum area is that way -->




Sorry, but this is general discussion.



Yes, and this is the wrong forum for your thinly-veiled advertisement of your trading 'guild' scamtasm.


scamtasm


scamtasm


scamtasm


Yes yes, welcome. I see you like relating things that are not related whatsoever. That weak punch of yours shows the Troll syndrome I am afraid I don't want to tolerate. Go back to the station you crawled out of. P

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#50 - 2016-08-02 18:27:16 UTC
You see, the thing is that what you say would have some weight, except that you and I - and practically everyone else who has even merely glanced at MD over the last few weeks - both know that you have a nasty habit of hijacking threads to promote your own nonsense. This really has direct bearing on your character, and the motives behind your thread...


...which is, as others have said, in completely the wrong sub-forum. Sort it out

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#51 - 2016-08-02 18:49:18 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
You see, the thing is that what you say would have some weight, except that you and I - and practically everyone else who has even merely glanced at MD over the last few weeks - both know that you have a nasty habit of hijacking threads to promote your own nonsense. This really has direct bearing on your character, and the motives behind your thread...


...which is, as others have said, in completely the wrong sub-forum. Sort it out


General discussion is not for general discussions... I see. Also, baiting is not worth it. Really, keep it to the subject or remain behind yourself.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#52 - 2016-08-02 18:51:19 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
as one man said: "I am here to destroy your game..."

I see the OP has edited his first post to reflect his true intentions - his goal is to destroy "our game" - aka: EVE Online

Still sticking with this ^ ...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Serene Repose
#53 - 2016-08-02 18:58:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Guys. If you're going to wax eloquent and smart and stuff, know your subject first. You can roast each other in snide, I'm-smarter-than-you wiseass remarks at another time with another subject...one you KNOW something about.

Your problem isn't some player spending all day monitoring all his sales contracts; nerfing them .01 every time someone puts in a lower price. It just looks like that's your problem. Nobody in their right mind would endeavor to do such a thing, and remain free from an insane asylum for very long.

The word you're searching for is BOTS. (In this case; market bots.) The existence and proliferation of market bots is why you'll never in a million years be able to work EVE's market like a "regular" (regulated?) capital market system. It just ain't gonna happen. It's a physical impossibility.

There is no amount of limiting player's physical activity in buying/selling/altering/canceling that will have ANY effect on this. You can surmise, day dream, or visit all the oracles you want and you will NEVER find a way to get around it. As long as there are bots automatically bumping prices, you will be eternally in this .01 game unless you....right....do what they're doing.

It is even said that Certain Connected People are running market bots TOO. SO

...good luck with this, homey.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#54 - 2016-08-02 19:14:50 UTC
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
... I see.

Sadly you don't.

Remove standings and insurance.
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#55 - 2016-08-02 20:28:42 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Guys. If you're going to wax eloquent and smart and stuff, know your subject first. You can roast each other in snide, I'm-smarter-than-you wiseass remarks at another time with another subject...one you KNOW something about.

Your problem isn't some player spending all day monitoring all his sales contracts; nerfing them .01 every time someone puts in a lower price. It just looks like that's your problem. Nobody in their right mind would endeavor to do such a thing, and remain free from an insane asylum for very long.

The word you're searching for is BOTS. (In this case; market bots.) The existence and proliferation of market bots is why you'll never in a million years be able to work EVE's market like a "regular" (regulated?) capital market system. It just ain't gonna happen. It's a physical impossibility.

There is no amount of limiting player's physical activity in buying/selling/altering/canceling that will have ANY effect on this. You can surmise, day dream, or visit all the oracles you want and you will NEVER find a way to get around it. As long as there are bots automatically bumping prices, you will be eternally in this .01 game unless you....right....do what they're doing.

It is even said that Certain Connected People are running market bots TOO. SO

...good luck with this, homey.


Never show your true power level.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#56 - 2016-08-02 20:29:42 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
as one man said: "I am here to destroy your game..."

I see the OP has edited his first post to reflect his true intentions - his goal is to destroy "our game" - aka: EVE Online

Still sticking with this ^ ...


Yes yes, and I don't even hide it. Why should I if I wrote it there?

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#57 - 2016-08-02 20:31:17 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
... I see.

Sadly you don't.


Sadly, you think you know what I see. People like you are the ones who make disinformation a viable tool. Also, no disinfo here. Just your nature of observation points at it with starking force.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#58 - 2016-08-02 20:36:11 UTC
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
... I see.

Sadly you don't.


Sadly, you think you know what I see. People like you are the ones who make disinformation a viable tool. Also, no disinfo here. Just your nature of observation points at it with starking force.

Lol

Remove standings and insurance.
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#59 - 2016-08-02 20:38:30 UTC
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Alright, I see this is a hard case. Creating a more chalenging game for experienced traders by limiting them and their orders and less limits on new players and those with less SP. Thus old players will be making more alts for which they have to pay. Be it with PLEX or subscription. Not allowing some old traders to dominate whole market or niche. It will be Physically hard for old players to keep up and dominate everything. Giving more chance to the new players. Clear?

So does your limit of only 1 order update per day only apply to players over a certain character age or sp threshhold then? Otherwise I'm not seeing how limiting a new player who can only put up a few market orders to 1 order update per day is going to help him, when his competition can update their order 305 times per day or more to out-bid him by 0.01 isk...


One order update per order per day. More times for new players, less for olds. Also bots will be out because a bot without margins will go bankrupt. Bot with margins will be the only one to play .01 isk game and can be easily identifiable(in perfect scenario).

If you remove the least changable value and the most changable as unatractive the guy who uses bot will be facing changing constants of prices. He can make a clever guess but that will be quite hard.

Anyway, new players can update one order more time, older players can update 1 time for example. This way small traders can have same access or bigger access to goods. Which is more attractive for trader. What it means is the bigger you get the less orders and the more volume, unless you want to upkeep fleet of alts which is time consuming.

Or they could just create a new player alt and take advantage of not being limited to 1 bump per day...

Also as previously stated most 0.01 isk orders aren't even bots. These non-bots are the ones who will be hurt by having to maintain a bunch of alts. Bots will actually gain an additional advantage as they don't care how many alts they have to log into...

I really don't think you understand how this system works...



Also - since when is it a good idea to *punish* people for putting a lot of time and effort into becoming good at something like trading, and to reward people with minimal time/effort invested? This just seems backwards to me...



Now i see your flaw. You are against equality of opportunity and for equality of outcome as you make such difference. The person with less changes to orders will not bankrupt, he will have to trade in bigger volumes. Besides such trading will greatly help producers. Specially those who lose from being ripped by intermediators that dont mind trading, they will be able to trade themselves and with better capabilities, and wont have to compete with hordes of players that do isk games. Younger players will have more possibilities and if you dont see logic behind it then I suggest you move on. Also bots are less of a burden and I do know how they work and I know that CCP does a good job catching them. Almost good.

Also it will make older traders innovate to outcompete younger players.


There is one set of EVE rules. They do not change as you gain experience. Why do you want to segregate a game that is not segregated?
ISD Buldath
#60 - 2016-08-02 20:39:57 UTC
Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


Locked.

~ISD Buldath

Instructor King of the Forums! Knight of the General Discussion

Support, Training and Resources Division

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.
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