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Trading reform

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William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#1 - 2016-08-02 12:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: William Legrand-Marx
NOTICE: I do not play .01 isk games. and as one man said: "I am here to destroy your game..."Blink

Greetings folks,

I want to share with those who want to know. We all know about .01 isk market grinding every 5 min time.

CCP could:

- CCP could change that to once a day at least. (to induce more client/trader relations, give more life to contracts)
- Maybe appying market pre and after hours with main hours.
- Define them in ET schedules and let it run.
- This will make market bots obsolete, to certain degree.
- Reduce number of people going for 1 ISK games and allow players do other stuff while not in main trading hours.
- Maybe applying main hours to different time zone sections. Lets say Caldari for Asia and Oceania, Amarr for Middle East, Gallente for Europe/Magreb and Minmatar for Americas.
- Certainly this wil shift traders dynamics as where to trade due to their time zones irl.
- That will also affect producers selling regions
- Maybe applying this only to citadels' markets?

I need constructive critics and ideas to improve that. .01 isk games are really a trade killer. More realism into it please.

CCP would?


Happy triggering!

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2016-08-02 13:35:57 UTC
Features and Ideas forum area is that way -->


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2016-08-02 13:53:38 UTC
I'm starting to see a distinct pattern to your posts.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#4 - 2016-08-02 13:58:34 UTC
They would simply break their orders out into more orders and continue undercutting you by 0.01 isk - and you couldn't even change your price to compete with them...

This is a horrible idea.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#5 - 2016-08-02 13:58:45 UTC
TL;DR--

"People don't play the game the same way I do, so please change the mechanics CCP."


Is that about correct? Just wanted to make sure I was correct in lumping you in with the "anti-gank HS miners" and "delayed local" folk.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#6 - 2016-08-02 14:00:03 UTC
why dont you just do that yourself instead playing the .01 isk game? you know, go do something else then adjust your order later? i see you want to remain at the top but it wont fix your problem because someone will just change the price after you then your stuck again all day rip no cigar, why do you want to force dedicated traders to be doing other activities?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#7 - 2016-08-02 14:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Greetings folks,

I want to share with those who want to know. We all know about .01 isk market grinding every 5 min time.

CCP could:

- CCP could change that to once a day at least. (to induce more client/trader relations, give more life to contracts)
- Maybe appying market pre and after hours with main hours.
- Define them in ET schedules and let it run.
- This will make market bots obsolete, to certain degree.
- Reduce number of people going for 1 ISK games and allow players do other stuff while not in main trading hours.
- Maybe applying main hours to different time zone sections. Lets say Caldari for Asia and Oceania, Amarr for Middle East, Gallente for Europe/Magreb and Minmatar for Americas.
- Certainly this wil shift traders dynamics as where to trade due to their time zones irl.
- That will also affect producers selling regions
- Maybe applying this only to citadels' markets?

I need constructive critics and ideas to improve that. .01 isk games are really a trade killer. More realism into it please.

CCP would?


Oh, boy...

Let's start at the top.

XThere's nothing wrong with the .01 ISK game!X
Tranquility Trade Wars is a viable and fun way to play EvE for quite a few players.
Constant updates and nursing investments is a feature not a flaw.



Now that that is out of my system, let's ask some questions:

First, how would any of this - in any way - obsolete bots?

Second, how would this affect the actual inter-empire trader? How long do they need to be online to actually buy and sell things in multiple areas?

Third...example time... I'm in the US, does that mean that I can only trade in Minmatar since I'll be at work during the other empires trade times. i'm not a big proponent of fire and forget orders...

Fourth.... Seriously... How is ANY of this a 'good thing'?

minus all the 1's


--Honestly Stunned Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
Dreamweb Industries
Novus Ordo.
#8 - 2016-08-02 14:17:53 UTC
Wow. That was... original?

I honestly tried to think about the possible outcomes for this. They would be good for some, bad for others, but in any case I've got to disappoint you: if .01 ISK games are your problem, the suggested changes sure as hell aren't going to solve them for you.


Hypothetically, that would make market competition more strategic, requiring from traders to think ahead and study their competitirs' order patterns. At the same time, everyone would start placing items for sell in much smaller increments lest they have all their wares locked down for the day.

And it will favor those who can afford to spend more orders on a particular item. Oh, James, will it favor them. Right now, casual traders with one account and low trading skills can still have their 20 seconds of fame every 5 minutes even when bidding for a hot item. Even I am able to sell all my (significant enough) loot through sell orders in Jita (eventually) by updating the order 1-2 times a day. With your idea, casuals go straight out the window. It won't be any easier for the big traders either: they'll have to specialize more and waste lots of orders on one item.

To think of it, right now I'm even failing to find anyone who would be happy with this.


Verdict: if you don't want to play .01 ISK games, get out of Jita. Work hard or work smart, that's your choice. Either babysit your orders while station trading or do some legworkand bring your stuff to where people will buy it.

Agent of the New Order

Live by the Code - die by the Code.

The Voice of Highsec
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#9 - 2016-08-02 14:17:57 UTC
Okay this one really got me LOLing in my chair.Roll It is SO stupid I shall only say this as it sums up everything. And yes that is as "constructive" as I can post atm.Twisted

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Yochi Miyatsuda
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-08-02 14:23:32 UTC
EVERYONE TRIGGERED AS TRUCK IN THIS THREAD LOLOLOL! Lol
Memphis Baas
#11 - 2016-08-02 14:28:22 UTC
As noted above, people would just set up multiple orders so they can adjust the price more than once per day; 305 market orders per character, 3 characters per account... theoretically your "once a day" becomes once every 2 minutes, which is less than the "once every 5 minutes" that we currently have.

CCP could change the fee for modifying an order, so that changing the order for just 0.01 ISK costs a lot, making it unfeasible. But it still won't help any single person compete on the market.

Because it's not really "bots": you have 2,000 - 3,000 PEOPLE from all over the world competing, esp. on the popular items like PLEX and injectors, and even with a 24 hr. restriction you will still see orders being changed every minute or so. Because there are so many people. The server has anywhere between 20,000 and 30,000 accounts logged in at any moment during the day; it's not a stretch to imagine that 10% of them may be using a fundamental feature such as the market, without being bots.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#12 - 2016-08-02 14:39:23 UTC
Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
EVERYONE TRIGGERED AS TRUCK IN THIS THREAD LOLOLOL! Lol



Yes... triggered enough to raise my eyebrows and use frowny faces.

This type of "idea" should trigger frowny faces, so working as intended?

--Gadget, secretly smiling on the inside

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#13 - 2016-08-02 14:47:41 UTC
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
EVERYONE TRIGGERED AS TRUCK IN THIS THREAD LOLOLOL! Lol



Yes... triggered enough to raise my eyebrows and use frowny faces.

This type of "idea" should trigger frowny faces, so working as intended?

--Gadget, secretly smiling on the inside



Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
EVERYONE TRIGGERED AS TRUCK IN THIS THREAD LOLOLOL! Lol



Now as triggering happened, we know them. As of course, they made instant assumptions regarding me.
Some said I play the .01 game like they know me. Reminds me of the guy in Jita who said I am racist because he assumed that Juanita was a latina maid. Now if I am also latino, then no racism, if me and JUanita are both white no either, and you can't find out either. Yelling spouts is much better, and that is why I liked triggered peope. They show the flaws you overlook yourself sometimes, which is very helpful.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#14 - 2016-08-02 14:48:06 UTC
Yochi Miyatsuda wrote:
EVERYONE TRIGGERED AS TRUCK IN THIS THREAD LOLOLOL! Lol

Some people are very easily amused...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#15 - 2016-08-02 14:48:28 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Features and Ideas forum area is that way -->




Sorry, but this is general discussion.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#16 - 2016-08-02 14:49:24 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
They would simply break their orders out into more orders and continue undercutting you by 0.01 isk - and you couldn't even change your price to compete with them...

This is a horrible idea.


So order limits do not exist? Please, think before posting.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#17 - 2016-08-02 14:50:29 UTC
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
They would simply break their orders out into more orders and continue undercutting you by 0.01 isk - and you couldn't even change your price to compete with them...

This is a horrible idea.


So order limits do not exist? Please, think before posting.

If you had read the rest of the replies you would realize how stupid you sound right now...and how ironic that statement truly is...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#18 - 2016-08-02 14:51:02 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
TL;DR--

"People don't play the game the same way I do, so please change the mechanics CCP."


Is that about correct? Just wanted to make sure I was correct in lumping you in with the "anti-gank HS miners" and "delayed local" folk.

KB


You are individual that makes assumption regarding individual rather than constructively criticising the idea. So idea will live as long as people like you won't deal with the ideas. Your mindset is dangerous, including for yourself, and I am talking about real life as well.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#19 - 2016-08-02 14:52:02 UTC
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
They would simply break their orders out into more orders and continue undercutting you by 0.01 isk - and you couldn't even change your price to compete with them...

This is a horrible idea.


So order limits do not exist? Please, think before posting.


Technically the amount of orders a player can have is truly limited to how many alts she is willing to use.
Cool

--Gadget is Legion

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#20 - 2016-08-02 14:55:45 UTC
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
William Legrand-Marx wrote:
Greetings folks,

I want to share with those who want to know. We all know about .01 isk market grinding every 5 min time.

CCP could:

- CCP could change that to once a day at least. (to induce more client/trader relations, give more life to contracts)
- Maybe appying market pre and after hours with main hours.
- Define them in ET schedules and let it run.
- This will make market bots obsolete, to certain degree.
- Reduce number of people going for 1 ISK games and allow players do other stuff while not in main trading hours.
- Maybe applying main hours to different time zone sections. Lets say Caldari for Asia and Oceania, Amarr for Middle East, Gallente for Europe/Magreb and Minmatar for Americas.
- Certainly this wil shift traders dynamics as where to trade due to their time zones irl.
- That will also affect producers selling regions
- Maybe applying this only to citadels' markets?

I need constructive critics and ideas to improve that. .01 isk games are really a trade killer. More realism into it please.

CCP would?


Oh, boy...

Let's start at the top.

XThere's nothing wrong with the .01 ISK game!X
Tranquility Trade Wars is a viable and fun way to play EvE for quite a few players.
Constant updates and nursing investments is a feature not a flaw.



Now that that is out of my system, let's ask some questions:

First, how would any of this - in any way - obsolete bots?

Second, how would this affect the actual inter-empire trader? How long do they need to be online to actually buy and sell things in multiple areas?

Third...example time... I'm in the US, does that mean that I can only trade in Minmatar since I'll be at work during the other empires trade times. i'm not a big proponent of fire and forget orders...

Well, just as told, put passive orders in regions out of your timezone and trade actively in the region of your timezone when it is your prime time. Seems like diverse game?

Fourth.... Seriously... How is ANY of this a 'good thing'?

minus all the 1's


--Honestly Stunned Gadget



Setting passive orders in areas out of your region with forecasted prices for the trading cycle. When in your time zone trade in your own prime time in the active hour set. It can be distributed evenly. WIthin different hubs in same region different time sections applied. Bringing more activity to other trade hubs.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
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