Intergalactic Summit

I wouldn't agree that 'honor,' for what it's worth, is limited to the front lines of any conflict. Especially as that combat is dependent on people who, as zoolkhan eloquently put it 'produce ships and arms to feed it.' Without this food source, could such 'honorable' combat even commence?

Furthermore, are we to say their is no honor is creating things? In selling them for a fair price? Is a person who braves the dangers of New Eden to deliver goods to others without honor because said person isn't actively killing someone? What of administrators, managers, and financiers who ensure the logistics for such battles? And that's just in space. We haven't covered parents who raise children, friends and spouses who offer moral support, people who work crap jobs for no money but show up anyway because they weren't raised to be quitters.

I dunno, all of that seems pretty honorable to me, but then, I am one of those highsec dwellers, so I could be biased, and I could also be pitching my services, too so there's that. :)

Valid input, i have to admit. Perhaps my comment was not fair in that sense.

It is true, what would we do - without those builders and miners? Let me think .... we would build and mine ourselves.

That is what we did before, when we built UNITY station in providence - it could not be bought from a shelf.

That is what we did when we fought our war, because building on the frontline or within the alliance was the only way to get fair prices and compensate for the heavy lossses in what seemed to be a very lonesome battle.

A handful alliances... and only one of them in nullsec fought the Amarr empire and much larger amarr loyalist alliances.
Against that was a 1000 times larger carebear force thinking about their own purse - selling to just any buyers, not even discriminating between Slaver , Criminal of "the state" or matari fredom fighter....

....ask yourself. Are you really supporting your troops as a matari? or are you merely pretending to do so for the sake of this argument?

One thing is honorable, but not profitable. The other thing makes you a person not worth my time.

The choice is yours.

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quick recap for the professional word twisters...
What i really mean to say is: "no, honor is not only on the frontlines, somertimes quite shameful acts
are comitted there... not every fighter is a honorable warrior either"

Yes, also behind the frontlines you can do honorable things. But getting filthy rich is not one of those things.

Whatever your profession is, there is a great difference in where or how you bring it to bear.


So - If youre a poet or entertainer, would you come out to our frontline stations to entertain those who put their life in the line to keep your world out of harms way? Or do you prefer pator, jita and rens - where the payment and living standards are more suitable to a star like you?

if youre a builder, would you give rebates to matari warrirors fighting also for _YOU_ to keep you free or even liberate your kin?

If youre a miner, would you invest your time into providing valuable minerals for ammo and spareparts, ship production free of charge, like our warriors waste their crews, and material and even more of their time to keep the slavers in check?


--

We are at war, whether you care or not -
and troop morale is all that keeps the enemy from blasting through your doors and taking your children.

Ask yourself, if youre eligeble to talk about "honor" - if the answer is a yes, then i will bother you no more.

Maybe some of you find it in their heart to do a little more for troop morale than they have been considered doing before.


zoolkhan
channel "xxxxx" (taking every help i can get channeling it towards honourable goals - not just combat pilots)
Ushra'khan - we come for our people

Something something revenge for dead family.

The Amarr Empire is one of the most honorable factions in our cluster. This is why they are and not anyone else are our both trusted military and trade allies.

When the Empire promises something, we believe them.

Have you ever seen Templars? Paladins? The whole Amarr military doctrine is built on honor... something that Minmatars still fail to grasp with their infamous Valklears and "Chaos Fighters"... Republicans are savages and primitives, known with their inhumanity and disrespect to other cultures.

Paladins of the Empire defend their homes, families and lands from agressors. While minmatars attack them only to kill, destroy and kidnap.

Would anyone sane leave the law enforcement corporation to join gurista, claiming that law enforces don't have honor?... This is just ridiculous. If you want to go bad and help their savages in their crfiminal acts against the Empire, at least do it as a real criminal - in silence. And don't play comedy for us. Okay?

I and many others live by honor. For us our honor is more precious than our lives. And your misusage of this word feels insulting.

I am not in the mood of playing Captain Obvious for gallentean ignorants, who could read me history textbook about events of about seven hundred years ago and fail to remember what happened just seven years ago.

The templar were around about 3 years ago and were doing this stuff all the while

Oh, we pretty much did a lot of mistakes. And one of the gravest ones was that we've agreed to give capsule technology to CONCORD, that led to your appearance among us.

Whether they gave it to Concord or not sooner or later it would be in everyone's hands anyways.

Whew! Things have gotten a bit...general in the discussion since I last checked in.

I'm only speaking from my experience here, but off the top of my head, I can list a number of people who have lied, cheated, stolen, initiated violence unprovoked and acted pretty primitive and let me tell you, they come in every flavor, honey. I've found it unwise and unprofitable to equate honor with familial or cultural background. Especially now in a time where people from all cultures have the ability to interact more frequently. Besides, I think it's a bit more accurate (and honorable!) to judge individuals on their actions in context, rather than rely on lazy caricatures and stereotypes. I'm sure you agree.

A bigger topic for me is that for a thread on the subject of honor, there have sure been a lot of insults thrown around. It's confirming my suspicions about that the entire enterprise of honor is really just an excuse to insult and be insulted in order to engage in fights with people that you'd like to fight.

To borrow Ms. Kim's language, if you just want to fight people that you don't like, why not drop the 'honor' bit and just say that I like hurting people who make me angry? It would be a lot more honest. Food for thought.

If you think this conflict ever ended once it started seven hundred years ago, you're sorely mistaken.

This has been one prolonged struggle that has never ended.