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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#721 - 2016-08-01 18:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:


Mosquitoes is referred to the fact they only gank a very little part of all the mining/hauling ships that are scattered across hisec so even if the amount makes them rich in term of isks, they could be thousand times richer if they could gank all ( obviously I'm saying just for example) the mining/hauling ships around.


My guess is they can't. Such a thing would be self-defeating in the end, even if they could pull it off, and trust me when mining ships had much less tank AND we had Hulkaggedon (a contest over a period of time to see who could gank the most mining ships) not all mining ships were ganked.

Quote:
So it's basically something that can be tollerated by ccp stuff, they make players to be annoyed and they contribute to make Eve have the fame of a mmo full of ***ks ( or better, the only mmo where they can have much fun ) but it's only part of what is maybe affecting the player base.


You need to stop this. It is misleading and contrary to public statements by CCP Devs. That is, they don't tolerate it, they see this kind of thing as a feature.

Quote:
Just to give you an example I don't spend all my time in hisec mining, maybe I spend like 20 hours/week in total when I'm not wardecced but I never experienced a single gank in about 6 months.


Then where is the problem? Ganking, by your own admission, is small compared to the entire population. You yourself haven't been ganked in 6 months. This does not looking like a raging problem. CCP's own analysis of "new players" shows that about 1% are ganked in their first 90 days....and they tend to stay with the game longer than those not ganked. Now with all averages, there will be some who stay less because they were ganked, but still this is, at best, a contributing factor to people leaving the game and quite possibly a small one.


I never said ganking is a big or the biggest part of the player's loss imo, it's one of the factors.

There are more nasty things like wardecs that damage calm hisec players social experience quite much and that are much more dangerous imo.

What I find odious is the attitude of some ( not all of them ) gankers toward the ganked players, deemed stupid, greedy, little pigs and many other adjectives, while actually they simply are the quiet cows they daily milk for their plexes, undisturbed.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#722 - 2016-08-01 18:34:43 UTC
NotTheSmartestCookie wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Indeed. I skilled up at the worst times, like the great malaise of 2014 for example, in hope for a better day, and some pipe dream about real live events (like from the Dropbear era) coming back. The entire sphere of sci-fi and the dystopic feel of the game is gone.

...snip...

AG has kept me in the game longer actually, but seeing how fast we can get nerfed, what's the point? Screw it.

Glad I never got around to putting that Eve sticker on my car. Would be feeling stupid if I had.


  • Wants a dystopion sci-fi setting
  • Complains about CODE.

I guess you don't have a strong need for internal consistency.

If I want to roleplay I always imagine myself dispensing justice in a Judge-Dread-like fashion vs rapacious mining companies and their lick-spittle henchmen. Invariably these mining cartels are guilty of a combination of the following: 1> wholesale environmental destruction, 2> tax/permit evasion and 3> using illegal AI to run their operations. Small wonder it always feels good to be in CODE.



You ever see one of those horror movies where if the first intended victim had a gun and the antagonist was mortal, the whole film would be less than 10 minutes long?



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#723 - 2016-08-01 18:39:33 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

So this is anecdotal evidence. Thanks.

So is everything said running conter to it.
Ccp have stated that one of the largest factors that negativly effect retention is non-engagement with the community,
Ganking objectivly produces this , just look at the ammount of op's we have had recently with fire in their belly about it.
The only reason they dont ed up as antiganking white knights is the established ones are hilariously incompitant and incapable of forming a counter movement, so the come here an **** and moan about it not being fair.
Yeah im aware thats my biased opinion but thats all year going to get from this thread anyway.
Edit: I hate this phone.



Funny but every time I told people I played Eve, the number one complaint was other players. Ganking was not high on the list though. About midway perhaps. Nerd drama and general ass-hattery where higher.

Even when you beat someone at their own game, the sperging nerd-rage is enough to make you wonder if you even want to be associated with them in any way, not even in the "playing the same game". E1 for example.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#724 - 2016-08-01 18:47:31 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

So this is anecdotal evidence. Thanks.

So is everything said running conter to it.
Ccp have stated that one of the largest factors that negativly effect retention is non-engagement with the community,
Ganking objectivly produces this , just look at the ammount of op's we have had recently with fire in their belly about it.
The only reason they dont ed up as antiganking white knights is the established ones are hilariously incompitant and incapable of forming a counter movement, so the come here an **** and moan about it not being fair.
Yeah im aware thats my biased opinion but thats all year going to get from this thread anyway.
Edit: I hate this phone.



Funny but every time I told people I played Eve, the number one complaint was other players. Ganking was not high on the list though. About midway perhaps. Nerd drama and general ass-hattery where higher.

Even when you beat someone at their own game, the sperging nerd-rage is enough to make you wonder if you even want to be associated with them in any way, not even in the "playing the same game". E1 for example.


Ever been on X-box live?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#725 - 2016-08-01 18:53:43 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


There is a rotten smell and it is not just coming from Jenn's megaphone...


and that means exactly what?

the shite you peddle doesn't smell, only everyone elses?


So what is your view on how the wreck EHP of freighters got changed to 15,000 EHP from 500 EHP, was it done with the purest of intentions, or was it because the AG was starting to gank wrecks, answers on a post card. To help in your journey of discovery you will find thet the person who jumped on to this was Endie whose corp was at one time the biggest industrial gankers in Eve.

He may be a paton saint of Eve for all I know, but the timing looks rather suspect, so if my feeling that this was a bit of a fix to favour the gankers smalls then it sure does smell.


Unintended consequences followed by a weird sense of 'balance' to the nerf/buff cycle.

The change was made for reasons related to controlling a battlefield. Quick removal of wrecks removes some warp-in opportunities and locations. The wrecks were being blapped with a single gun, meaning that they were easily - and near instantly- cleaned up leaving nothing to create an easy warp-in point from. Increasing the HP of the wrecks added more meaningful choices: Appoint more resources to clean the wrecks; take more time to clean the wrecks; or ignore the wrecks and just accept being warped in on top of.

It was brought up in the forums how this change might affect HS privateering, but it was also noted that the EHP increase for all ships due to the DCU changes (and changes to Hull resists) would 'balance' out the wreck changes.


--Gadget


Yes a good reason as people like me agree with, however why did it suddenly get picked up on by Endie? Ask yourself another question it was like that for years, why change now, and in big fights there are so many wrecks its difficult to blow them all up.

As for it being balanced, no it was not balanced out at all, because it removed the one fun part of doing AG stuff. If you could have heard some of the ganker comms when the wreck got blown up you would understand, some of them went utterly apeshite at it, a certain player who is no longer in Eve went on a 20 minute rant over the wreck being blown up.

Perhaps it is because Eve is really a game of rainbows and unicrons for gankers.




All I know is, when gankers use a mechanic, it takes CCP a long time to change it after much debate and fanfare.

As soon as AG figures something out that's effective: "BOOM: headshot".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#726 - 2016-08-01 18:57:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

So this is anecdotal evidence. Thanks.

So is everything said running conter to it.
Ccp have stated that one of the largest factors that negativly effect retention is non-engagement with the community,
Ganking objectivly produces this , just look at the ammount of op's we have had recently with fire in their belly about it.
The only reason they dont ed up as antiganking white knights is the established ones are hilariously incompitant and incapable of forming a counter movement, so the come here an **** and moan about it not being fair.
Yeah im aware thats my biased opinion but thats all year going to get from this thread anyway.
Edit: I hate this phone.



Funny but every time I told people I played Eve, the number one complaint was other players. Ganking was not high on the list though. About midway perhaps. Nerd drama and general ass-hattery where higher.

Even when you beat someone at their own game, the sperging nerd-rage is enough to make you wonder if you even want to be associated with them in any way, not even in the "playing the same game". E1 for example.


Ever been on X-box live?



Once. But I tire easily of feeling like nuclear war or killer viruses are justified. Harshes my buzz so to speak.

The Physical Removal Principle works (regardless if removing someone else or removing yourself). Lots of people have done that with Eve.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#727 - 2016-08-01 18:58:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
baltec1 wrote:

Ever been on X-box live?


**Hisses and makes ALL the religious signs**

--Scared Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#728 - 2016-08-01 19:20:23 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

So this is anecdotal evidence. Thanks.

So is everything said running conter to it.
Ccp have stated that one of the largest factors that negativly effect retention is non-engagement with the community,
Ganking objectivly produces this , just look at the ammount of op's we have had recently with fire in their belly about it.
The only reason they dont ed up as antiganking white knights is the established ones are hilariously incompitant and incapable of forming a counter movement, so the come here an **** and moan about it not being fair.
Yeah im aware thats my biased opinion but thats all year going to get from this thread anyway.
Edit: I hate this phone.



Funny but every time I told people I played Eve, the number one complaint was other players. Ganking was not high on the list though. About midway perhaps. Nerd drama and general ass-hattery where higher.

Even when you beat someone at their own game, the sperging nerd-rage is enough to make you wonder if you even want to be associated with them in any way, not even in the "playing the same game". E1 for example.


Ever been on X-box live?



Once. But I tire easily of feeling like nuclear war or killer viruses are justified. Harshes my buzz so to speak.

The Physical Removal Principle works (regardless if removing someone else or removing yourself). Lots of people have done that with Eve.

Tell you what so, you go tell the rest of eve to stob being beligerant gobshites to one another and we'll take it from there .

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#729 - 2016-08-01 19:23:36 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Tell you what so, you go tell the rest of eve to stob being beligerant gobshites to one another and we'll take it from there .


We're trying to tell CCP not to pick sides. That's all.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
zoolkhan
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#730 - 2016-08-01 19:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: zoolkhan
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Many more options - many of which are free to play on cell phones.


you gotta be kidding me. comparing cell phone apps with eve-online.


Anyhow.. i am still here :-) 13 years...
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#731 - 2016-08-01 19:43:59 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Tell you what so, you go tell the rest of eve to stob being beligerant gobshites to one another and we'll take it from there .


We're trying to tell CCP not to pick sides. That's all.



CCP designed a game to be harsh, dark and gritty. They picked sides before anyone started playing. This seems to be hard for some people to grasp.

If EVE is to stay EVE then CCP will always side with a harsher play style. Accept it, adapt or move on seem to be the only choices.
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#732 - 2016-08-01 19:54:34 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
What I find odious is the attitude of some ( not all of them ) gankers toward the ganked players, deemed stupid, greedy, little pigs and many other adjectives, while actually they simply are the quiet cows they daily milk for their plexes, undisturbed.


Don't confuse adjectives used here with what's said in local. It's against the code to flame or abuse others in local so...not to mention that pissing people off more isn't the mandate. I honestly try to help...granted it's through destruction but that's how creation works.

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#733 - 2016-08-01 20:27:39 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:


I never said ganking is a big or the biggest part of the player's loss imo, it's one of the factors.

There are more nasty things like wardecs that damage calm hisec players social experience quite much and that are much more dangerous imo.

What I find odious is the attitude of some ( not all of them ) gankers toward the ganked players, deemed stupid, greedy, little pigs and many other adjectives, while actually they simply are the quiet cows they daily milk for their plexes, undisturbed.



Look, if you get ganked you screwed up. Maybe it was just plain old vanilla ignorance, but if you get all righteous and indignant that is stupid.

And if their profiting off of ganks makes you annoyed...well, you can try to tell people what they are doing wrong. Hell I've done it here on the forums many, many, many times. Usually receiving considerable scorn for it as well...as if being imprudent and foolish is their God given right.

As for war decs I have already outlined how to largely avoid them. It is not that hard, if you are simply turtling up till the dec ends that is your choice.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#734 - 2016-08-01 20:28:25 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
NotTheSmartestCookie wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Indeed. I skilled up at the worst times, like the great malaise of 2014 for example, in hope for a better day, and some pipe dream about real live events (like from the Dropbear era) coming back. The entire sphere of sci-fi and the dystopic feel of the game is gone.

...snip...

AG has kept me in the game longer actually, but seeing how fast we can get nerfed, what's the point? Screw it.

Glad I never got around to putting that Eve sticker on my car. Would be feeling stupid if I had.


  • Wants a dystopion sci-fi setting
  • Complains about CODE.

I guess you don't have a strong need for internal consistency.

If I want to roleplay I always imagine myself dispensing justice in a Judge-Dread-like fashion vs rapacious mining companies and their lick-spittle henchmen. Invariably these mining cartels are guilty of a combination of the following: 1> wholesale environmental destruction, 2> tax/permit evasion and 3> using illegal AI to run their operations. Small wonder it always feels good to be in CODE.



You ever see one of those horror movies where if the first intended victim had a gun and the antagonist was mortal, the whole film would be less than 10 minutes long?





Non-sequitur much?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#735 - 2016-08-01 20:36:03 UTC
Caco De'mon wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
What I find odious is the attitude of some ( not all of them ) gankers toward the ganked players, deemed stupid, greedy, little pigs and many other adjectives, while actually they simply are the quiet cows they daily milk for their plexes, undisturbed.


Don't confuse adjectives used here with what's said in local. It's against the code to flame or abuse others in local so...not to mention that pissing people off more isn't the mandate. I honestly try to help...granted it's through destruction but that's how creation works.


A student of Schumpeter?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#736 - 2016-08-01 20:42:43 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Tell you what so, you go tell the rest of eve to stob being beligerant gobshites to one another and we'll take it from there .


We're trying to tell CCP not to pick sides. That's all.



That's what I would say too.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#737 - 2016-08-01 20:48:13 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Tell you what so, you go tell the rest of eve to stob being beligerant gobshites to one another and we'll take it from there .


We're trying to tell CCP not to pick sides. That's all.



That's what I would say too.

Just in case you missed it:

CCP designed a game to be harsh, dark and gritty. They picked sides before anyone started playing. This seems to be hard for some people to grasp.

If EVE is to stay EVE then CCP will always side with a harsher play style. Accept it, adapt or move on seem to be the only choices.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#738 - 2016-08-01 20:53:37 UTC
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Tell you what so, you go tell the rest of eve to stob being beligerant gobshites to one another and we'll take it from there .


We're trying to tell CCP not to pick sides. That's all.



That's what I would say too.

Just in case you missed it:

CCP designed a game to be harsh, dark and gritty. They picked sides before anyone started playing. This seems to be hard for some people to grasp.

If EVE is to stay EVE then CCP will always side with a harsher play style. Accept it, adapt or move on seem to be the only choices.

Lies.

CCP keeps denying my request to spawn concord at will to kill random people who annoy me in local...

And they won't even give me a polaris frigate fitted up with concord weaponry to murder you all in...

Those would be harsher play styles - but for some reason they don't like the idea Ugh

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#739 - 2016-08-01 20:54:34 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Yes because rewarding imprudence and foolishness is always good. Roll


Nobody is being rewarded with anything. Reward implies that CCP actively advocates an AFK mining play style. Just the opposite appears to be true as it's the worst common ISK generator in the game.

HiSec AFK mining is a horrific trade of game time for relatively low ISK return. For that terrible trade off, it's relatively safe to do. If two companies with identical resources exist, one in HiSec and one in NullSec, mine for 30 days in their respective 'safe' areas (High, Concord guarding: Null, guarded gates, etc.) the NullSec corp will be piles upon piles richer than the HiSec corp. The reason the HiSec corp exists is they don't have to fight and keep up the military assets the NullSec corp would.

Your comment utterly denies the right of choice of a corp not to engage in ship to ship PvP and that goes against everything the sandbox is made for. You have to make room for everyone to play or risk the game's very existence. Don't even bother with the EVE is PvP comments because AFK mining is also PvP. EVE is entirely PvP.

Another way to put it is: you either respect the idea that all play styles are valid or risk your own being eliminated because it's not recognized by the powers that be that it's valid. Just ask the Mercenaries how they feel about their play style being nerfed into an endangered species.

I suggest everyone let go of their bias toward their own play styles and allow everyone to play and have fun in the box, using the tools CCP gives us to build our sand empires the way we all feel like building in, and playing with them.

Even the DEV's need to be careful of, and respect this concept, which I guarantee you they are well aware of. Sometimes they have to choose the lesser of two evils (breaking something to fix something else) but it's frustrating as heck to those of us that watch these changes and aren't told how they are going to fix what they just broke.

So I understand your frustrations Teckos, I get Dravclad's, and can even grasp the core of what James 315 is saying (after you shovel all the **** off the top of it)... however what that should tell all of you is that the game is pretty well balanced at the moment since you guys are arguing over moving the balance point in micro fractions of distance.

Everyone please stop trying to change the game to your benefit and if you advocate a change, make sure it's beneficial to everyone. I'm getting tired of the HiSec player whining, either from the ones that want to avoid fighting starships or those that only seem to want to fight starships.

I guess that's why I'm moving our corp to NullSec. The HiSec whining is worse than the PvP losses I'll be facing and I can replace the cost of any lost ship in a matter of a couple of hours.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#740 - 2016-08-01 21:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Yes because rewarding imprudence and foolishness is always good. Roll


Nobody is being rewarded with anything. Reward implies that CCP actively advocates an AFK mining play style. Just the opposite appears to be true as it's the worst common ISK generator in the game.

HiSec AFK mining is a horrific trade of game time for relatively low ISK return. For that terrible trade off, it's relatively safe to do. If two companies with identical resources exist, one in HiSec and one in NullSec, mine for 30 days in their respective 'safe' areas (High, Concord guarding: Null, guarded gates, etc.) the NullSec corp will be piles upon piles richer than the HiSec corp. The reason the HiSec corp exists is they don't have to fight and keep up the military assets the NullSec corp would.

Your comment utterly denies the right of choice of a corp not to engage in ship to ship PvP and that goes against everything the sandbox is made for. You have to make room for everyone to play or risk the game's very existence. Don't even bother with the EVE is PvP comments because AFK mining is also PvP. EVE is entirely PvP.

Another way to put it is: you either respect the idea that all play styles are valid or risk your own being eliminated because it's not recognized by the powers that be that it's valid. Just ask the Mercenaries how they feel about their play style being nerfed into an endangered species.

I suggest everyone let go of their bias toward their own play styles and allow everyone to play and have fun in the box, using the tools CCP gives us to build our sand empires the way we all feel like building in, and playing with them.

Even the DEV's need to be careful of, and respect this concept, which I guarantee you they are well aware of. Sometimes they have to choose the lesser of two evils (breaking something to fix something else) but it's frustrating as heck to those of us that watch these changes and aren't told how they are going to fix what they just broke.

So I understand your frustrations Teckos, I get Dravclad's, and can even grasp the core of what James 315 is saying (after you shovel all the **** off the top of it)... however what that should tell all of you is that the game is pretty well balanced at the moment since you guys are arguing over moving the balance point in micro fractions of distance.

Everyone please stop trying to change the game to your benefit and if you advocate a change, make sure it's beneficial to everyone. I'm getting tired of the HiSec player whining, either from the ones that want to avoid fighting starships or those that only seem to want to fight starships.

I guess that's why I'm moving our corp to NullSec. The HiSec whining is worse than the PvP losses I'll be facing and I can replace the cost of any lost ship in a matter of a couple of hours.


You did note that I wanted to move the balance point a bit in terms of bumping, loot scooping and of course consequences. But they just say I want to make hisec 100% safe. Earlier in this thread I pushed for reduced war dec costs, and a mechanicsm for the war dec to follow people if they move to another player corp within 7 days of leaving a war dec corp. On the other side I suggested some sort of limitation to the war decs that a corp could get. Finally I suggested that we go back to how it was before with wrecks at 500 EHP and the removal of the EHP on freighters, I also sugegsted that CCP move it up later.

The battles over wrecks if properly developed would be epic.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp