EVE General Discussion

Which illiterates my point, the barge balance was a bad one as ships like the covetor are relegated to the bin.

Skiff gets more tank than some fully fitted cruisers right out of the box. They are anything but easily killable.

yup,, and a well fit one can hit 120k hit points easy.

but working in a fleet does add support. that's a given.

Yes, HS is not 100% has always been this way. People like you whine for changes and the law of unintended consequences keeps biting you in the ass and you just don't learn.

Let me see....

1. You have to first herd dozens of cats (get that fleet formed).
2. You have to get some guy who is good at bumping.
3. You have to set up voice comms.
4. You have to have a logistics network to get stuff where your cats in point 1 can use it.
5. You have to find an idiot.
6. Gank.

If you look at just 6 or maybe even 5 & 6 yeah, it looks easy. Note, I am skipping things like setting up corporations, alliances, the stuff to check APIs, etc.

Maybe you should try ganking. See what is involved vs. spouting off and displaying your ignorance for everyone to see.

I think situation is quite different.

Situation is that CCP prefers to keep it ambiguous.

HS miners keep mining in unrealistical ships.

Gankers keep killing some of them in a unrealistical scenario.

At the end of the joke gankers only scratch a little part of the ISKs that transit in Hisec, and it's still more than enough to keep them well feeded and to let them plex a lot for free.

It's like the mosquitoes, fat mosquitoes draining some blood but not killing anyone because the number are low compared to the total of players.

It's pretty sad honestly, and it can made realistic assumptions related to the preference of some game developers to them for reasons I don't personally know nor care.

FYI, I looked at the ganks for retrievers and skiffs for July 26. Went to zkill and copied and pasted the data into excel. I removed LS and NS kills. For retrievers there were 33 kills. There might have been some war dec kills in there, I did not check, so that is an upper bound. For skiffs there were 2 HS deaths, these I did look at since there were only 2 and those both looked very much like war decs. Skiffs also had a number of kills on there as well.

So Lucy is just an ignoramus. Literally. You want more safety, get in a skiff, or its T1 variant, the procuror. Both can fit substantial tank and can be a nasty surprise for somebody not expecting tanked skiffs or procurors. Put them in a group with combat boosts and they are nastier.

Drav-

No, I get your point and am not offended by it. I also get the CODE point as well.

My only issue with CODE is the concept of 'ownership/change of HiSec' or the 'right' to just ruin someone elses game play for the sake of some RP fantasy that is simply a justification to be a jerk for being a jerks sake. I actually don't care much about the play style as long as the people behind the play style don't swallow the Kool-Aid so much that they actually believe the garbage they try to sell to everyone else. Propaganda is fine, actually believing your own propaganda is dangerous to you and everyone around you.

As to HiSec AFK miners, CODE has a point... to a point. It's a valid play style if you accept the idea that all play styles are valid. Is it 'good' for the game... eh, that's a matter of perspective, james' zombie corps says it's bad but frankly it doesn't bother me at all since it's so low profit. Is it good for the 'player' choosing to do this? No, that's probably where CODE is dead on correct but it can be argued that the CODE play style is just as damaging as the AFK mining one, which is exactly what you've been arguing.

Where I think you're making a mistake is trying to link it to new player loss. I just don't see the evidence to support the idea that ganking causes massive player loss. It's actually so rare, that it would get lost in just the statistical noise of player loss so it's almost impossible to quantify. Yeah, we can be pretty certain SOMEONE has left the game due to it, but if that's countered by 100 people leaving the game due to the games complexity... it's basically a moot point.

Look, the common ground here is that if we all agree that HiSec should not be 100% safe, then it's just an issue as to what degree of safety should exist and who protects that safety factor.

I personally think HiSec is okay as is with the new bumping limit. You can't bug someone for 15 minutes straight, multiple times during a run. That puts a limit on the obnoxiousness of people. Personally, I think it could've been done differently, like instead of instawarping, maybe after 3 minutes of bumping, the target ship is given Kill Rights on all the ships within 100km of it. It can either open fire (with no Concord interference and the other ships DON'T get to do that, they either have to leave or suicide gank the target) or give other pilots in the area the kill rights and let them come take them out for the target.

There are a lot of ways to balance this out, but arguing this for 35+ pages is a little silly.

No, what is really bonkers is despite this these Bads™ do not use the ship and do not fit a tank. And they still show up here and whine and cry and complain. CCP has handed them to tools to make ganking mining ships quite difficult (the procuror also has a damn impressive tank as well) and yet these people refuse to use them. Now that is bonkers, IMO.

Mosquitoes is referred to the fact they only gank a very little part of all the mining/hauling ships that are scattered across hisec so even if the amount makes them rich in term of isks, they could be thousand times richer if they could gank all ( obviously I'm saying just for example) the mining/hauling ships around.

So it's basically something that can be tollerated by ccp stuff, they make players to be annoyed and they contribute to make Eve have the fame of a mmo full of ***ks ( or better, the only mmo where they can have much fun ) but it's only part of what is maybe affecting the player base.

Just to give you an example I don't spend all my time in hisec mining, maybe I spend like 20 hours/week in total when I'm not wardecced but I never experienced a single gank in about 6 months.