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That's some serious dedication to Eve
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Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2016-08-01 02:44:47 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

And yet people keep arguing with me that EVE isn't pay-to-win - and this is no different than the character bazaar...

I do not fault the OP nor others like him - it is a sound business strategy to farm SP, and exploiting every advantage CCP gives us is a long-standing EVE tradition.... But mass SP farmers are the reason that SP injectors are going to (or have already) become so prolific that EVE really is just another Pay to "Win" game (yes, yes, I know you don't actually win - but look at some other p2w games, you never "win" there either, they just keep finding ways to try to get you to spend money for more and more *competitive advantages*) - with enough SP for anybody who wants any amount they are willing to pay for - at any time.


You don't win by having SP, all you do is level the playing field.

I have 16m SP, and the very first pvp (where the target wasn't in a pod) that I got into with this character, was already against far older characters in sleipners and scimitars.

There is _NO_ amount of SP I can inject onto this character that would ever confer an _advantage_ to me over the PVP alliance staged 2 jumps from where I am right now, and 3 months in, with many billions earned and spent on injectors I have yet to even level the playing field and even if I did that, I still have to join an alliance of similar SP players to make much use of it, which means whatever SP I have is pretty much going just be part of the average SP of the alliance.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#62 - 2016-08-01 04:13:55 UTC
Coralas wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

And yet people keep arguing with me that EVE isn't pay-to-win - and this is no different than the character bazaar...

I do not fault the OP nor others like him - it is a sound business strategy to farm SP, and exploiting every advantage CCP gives us is a long-standing EVE tradition.... But mass SP farmers are the reason that SP injectors are going to (or have already) become so prolific that EVE really is just another Pay to "Win" game (yes, yes, I know you don't actually win - but look at some other p2w games, you never "win" there either, they just keep finding ways to try to get you to spend money for more and more *competitive advantages*) - with enough SP for anybody who wants any amount they are willing to pay for - at any time.


You don't win by having SP, all you do is level the playing field.

I have 16m SP, and the very first pvp (where the target wasn't in a pod) that I got into with this character, was already against far older characters in sleipners and scimitars.

There is _NO_ amount of SP I can inject onto this character that would ever confer an _advantage_ to me over the PVP alliance staged 2 jumps from where I am right now, and 3 months in, with many billions earned and spent on injectors I have yet to even level the playing field and even if I did that, I still have to join an alliance of similar SP players to make much use of it, which means whatever SP I have is pretty much going just be part of the average SP of the alliance.


You don't win by having golden ships and ammo and gear, all you do is level the playing field against other players with golden ships and ammo and gear. You win by not falling into the whale trap of "If only I had xxx from the cash shop, I could be competitive."

They do a little hand-waving to make it not come straight from the cash shop.

A signature :o
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#63 - 2016-08-01 04:33:19 UTC
Dibz wrote:
I hate to be cynical (ok I don't), but I can't imagine anyone bothering to put that much effort into the game for purely in-game rewards.

EVE has gotten into the news for game-related insanity.
Someone once tried to take a capship pilot offline by having the power cut to his house.

Players have gotten DDoSed to affect fleet fights, or their comms have been forced offline right before a fight.
There was this semi-recent incident where Voltron was making a bug push againt the goons and EVE got DDoSed.

Internet spaceships are serious business.

A signature :o
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#64 - 2016-08-01 05:09:48 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
This game is full of exploitations.

Developers don't care at all about them imo.

This is just only another one.


Can I have your stuff too?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2016-08-01 06:26:04 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:

You don't win by having golden ships and ammo and gear, all you do is level the playing field against other players with golden ships and ammo and gear. You win by not falling into the whale trap of "If only I had xxx from the cash shop, I could be competitive."

They do a little hand-waving to make it not come straight from the cash shop.


Ah yes, because you run out of skill points after 5 arenas and then you have buy more if you want to .... oh wait!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2016-08-01 06:35:01 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
...300m ISK / month isn't a big deal; you can easily do that with PI in high sec.


How?


By making 3,200 robotics. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2016-08-01 06:43:07 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Now realise that the average character to player ratio in EVE is only 1.5 (rounded).
So consider how many solo account players must exist in order to balance out a 127 account player.

As another interesting look at statistics that this sort of thing reveals.


There would have to be 451 solo accounts to balance plus this guy to get 1.5 alts on average. FYI. Smile

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2016-08-01 06:51:47 UTC
Okay, based on current prices with 227 accounts, each one an SP farm, this guy, could, in theory PLEX each account and then have about 45 billion ISK left over each month.

Meh, I'm sure the IWI guys make that in a day.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
CowQueen MMXII
#69 - 2016-08-01 10:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: CowQueen MMXII
Teckos Pech wrote:
Okay, based on current prices with 227 accounts, each one an SP farm, this guy, could, in theory PLEX each account and then have about 45 billion ISK left over each month.

Meh, I'm sure the IWI guys make that in a day.


Teckos Pech wrote:
Okay, based on current prices with 227 accounts, each one an SP farm, this guy, could, in theory PLEX each account and then have about 45 billion ISK left over each month.

Meh, I'm sure the IWI guys make that in a day.


227 accs * three characters = 681 chars

Monthly costs per character: one plex for 900mio and 3 extractors for ~210 mio each = 1530 mio
Monthly income for selling 3 injectors per char: ~1750mio
Monthly profit per character: ~220 mio

220mio * 681 chars = ~150 billion per month

Once a character is set up, it shouldn't take longer than a few minutes every other month or so to get the skills extracted. Let's say 3 minutes per character per month:
~34 hours total for going through all chars in a month
Profit of 4.4 billion per hour

Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#70 - 2016-08-01 11:29:32 UTC
I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if someone mentioned it before.

yoyo did not make those characters / accounts for SP farming. He had them way before SP trading got revealed / introduced.
He's using them to AFK cloaky camp and extort ISK from nullsec idiots. He's also an idiot himself and a really ******* terrible EVE player. I say that as someone that has dropped with him, not someone that was *affected* by his pathetic camping.

If you want a good laugh, check out his killboard. Most of the fits are so ******** it's not even funny anymore.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#71 - 2016-08-01 12:40:11 UTC
Don't forget either that you need a minimum of 5,500,000 sp to begin extracting. That's a large investment to even begin farming a character from scratch. Approx 3 months with +5's or a 6.5 bil investment in injectors to get each one going?

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#72 - 2016-08-01 12:49:33 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Don't forget either that you need a minimum of 5,500,000 sp to begin extracting. That's a large investment to even begin farming a character from scratch. Approx 3 months with +5's or a 6.5 bil investment in injectors to get each one going?

So using CowQueens numbers you need to spend 1.5 hours per character extracting skills to recover your initial investment - everything after that is pure profit...

Not that bad really.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)