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Eliminating Citadels on Gate grid.
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Enabran' Tain
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-07-30 15:09:37 UTC
Currently, In 7RM-N0 there is a huge gate camp that has a citadel guarding it.

Allowing Citadels on grid with gates is absolutely ripe for abuse and should not be allowed under any circumstances.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-07-30 15:51:47 UTC
...Citadels can't lock targets on gates. due to anchoring restrictions and maximum range. They also can't shoot you unless they're manned. Or tackle you unless they're both manned and vulnerable, and since it takes them roughly twenty seconds to lock even a battleship, it's not all that hard to escape even if you do get caught. (remember, bubbles don't block MJDs)

Does a bubble that far off a gate actually drag? (frankly you shouldn't be warping gate to gate to gate in nullsec anyway, but still.)


Furthermore, can you give us an example of the ways this can actually be abused?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2016-07-30 16:00:09 UTC
Relevant Dev Post

tldr; the effective "drag range" of bubbles will be changed from "on-grid" to 500km.

How did you Veterans start?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2016-07-30 18:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Danika Princip wrote:
...Citadels can't lock targets on gates. due to anchoring restrictions and maximum range. They also can't shoot you unless they're manned. Or tackle you unless they're both manned and vulnerable, and since it takes them roughly twenty seconds to lock even a battleship, it's not all that hard to escape even if you do get caught. (remember, bubbles don't block MJDs)

Does a bubble that far off a gate actually drag? (frankly you shouldn't be warping gate to gate to gate in nullsec anyway, but still.)

Furthermore, can you give us an example of the ways this can actually be abused?

Find a busy traffic system. Place a Citadel 1,000 km from the gate in line with another busy gate. Put loads of bubbles up in a specific manner: Large bubbles all over the place, covering a large volume. Small bubbles inside these large bubbles closer to the gate. The small bubbles actually stop your warp and you land inside an ocean of bubbles stretching dozens of kilometers in any direction. You indeed do not land on the edge of the first large bubble's effect range on your warp path but on the edge of a small bubble inside the larges. Have a couple of tacklers around and someone to man the citadel and fire away. Escaping impossible.

CCP labeled this already as creative use of the allowed mechanics, but in my opinion it's borderline abuse (although extremely efficient, admittedly).

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Enabran' Tain
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-08-01 06:42:08 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
...Citadels can't lock targets on gates. due to anchoring restrictions and maximum range. They also can't shoot you unless they're manned. Or tackle you unless they're both manned and vulnerable, and since it takes them roughly twenty seconds to lock even a battleship, it's not all that hard to escape even if you do get caught. (remember, bubbles don't block MJDs)

Does a bubble that far off a gate actually drag? (frankly you shouldn't be warping gate to gate to gate in nullsec anyway, but still.)

Furthermore, can you give us an example of the ways this can actually be abused?

Find a busy traffic system. Place a Citadel 1,000 km from the gate in line with another busy gate. Put loads of bubbles up in a specific manner: Large bubbles all over the place, covering a large volume. Small bubbles inside these large bubbles closer to the gate. The small bubbles actually stop your warp and you land inside an ocean of bubbles stretching dozens of kilometers in any direction. You indeed do not land on the edge of the first large bubble's effect range on your warp path but on the edge of a small bubble inside the larges. Have a couple of tacklers around and someone to man the citadel and fire away. Escaping impossible.

CCP labeled this already as creative use of the allowed mechanics, but in my opinion it's borderline abuse (although extremely efficient, admittedly).


Odd. That is the exact scenario I encountered. Borderline abuse? More like good ole fashioned abuse.
Corvald Tyrska
Valknetra
#6 - 2016-08-02 01:21:02 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

Find a busy traffic system.Place a Citadel 1,000 km from the gate in line with another busy gate. Put loads of bubbles up in a specific manner: Large bubbles all over the place, covering a large volume. Small bubbles inside these large bubbles closer to the gate. The small bubbles actually stop your warp and you land inside an ocean of bubbles stretching dozens of kilometers in any direction. You indeed do not land on the edge of the first large bubble's effect range on your warp path but on the edge of a small bubble inside the larges. Have a couple of tacklers around and someone to man the citadel and fire away. Escaping impossible.

CCP labeled this already as creative use of the allowed mechanics, but in my opinion it's borderline abuse (although extremely efficient, admittedly).


I've highlighted your problem. If you are warping directly between two gates in a busy, null-sec system you kinda deserve to lose your ship. How is landing on a bubbled citadel different to being pipebombed or killed by any other bubble camp? for the lazy there are generally dozens of other celestials that you could warp to so that your path is not predicable. If it is a system you intend to use more than a couple of times, grab an interceptor and spend a few minutes setting some bookmarks.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2016-08-02 01:32:13 UTC
Corvald Tyrska wrote:

I've highlighted your problem. If you are warping directly between two gates in a busy, null-sec system you kinda deserve to lose your ship. How is landing on a bubbled citadel different to being pipebombed or killed by any other bubble camp? for the lazy there are generally dozens of other celestials that you could warp to so that your path is not predicable. If it is a system you intend to use more than a couple of times, grab an interceptor and spend a few minutes setting some bookmarks.

Because all of the other examples involve a target that you can bait & kill. Citadels are immune to damage nearly all the time.
Hence why CCP have already designed a solution to this problem that will be implemented next patch.