These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Insta-locking gate camps
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Fye'16
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-07-24 15:47:43 UTC
Hi all,

I'm fairly new to the game (I've played on and off since release, but never for very long) and I've just got a quick question on insta-locking gate camps.

I'm flying a lot of Covert Ops ships at the moment, doing null-sec exploration and shipping goods from Jita out to null to make a profit. I'm usually flying a Buzzard, Manticore or a Crane. I've gotten pretty good at not getting killed though it still happens from time to time. Today however I came across something today that I've never seen before - the insta-locking Svipul.

Now - I didn't actually see the ship before it started shooting at me, so I could have just been too slow, but it seemed like even though I hit the cloaking device straight away I didn't cloak in time for him to point me.

My question is - is it actually possible for me to cloak in time to prevent this type of setup from locking on to me? Or do I just need to accept that I'll occasionally lose a ship to this?

I'm contemplating putting stabs on my Crane if this isn't the case, though I'll be losing agility...

I was definitely not operating at peak brain power when I lost my ship to this, I didn't even realise it was there! (I'll be checking overview in detail lot closer in future!).

Thanks,

Fye
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-07-24 16:00:18 UTC
it's actually far more in your favour to cloak and move before he can lock

As long as you don't have a latency spike at the exact moment you're cloaking you have a 2 second window where he has to lock and point you

Art of Explosions
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2016-07-24 16:02:53 UTC
Fye'16 wrote:

My question is - is it actually possible for me to cloak in time to prevent this type of setup from locking on to me? Or do I just need to accept that I'll occasionally lose a ship to this?

You just need to accept that you'll occasionally lose a ship to human error.
with a covops you should always be able but the margin for error is very very slim.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Fye'16
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-07-24 17:06:21 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Fye'16 wrote:

My question is - is it actually possible for me to cloak in time to prevent this type of setup from locking on to me? Or do I just need to accept that I'll occasionally lose a ship to this?

You just need to accept that you'll occasionally lose a ship to human error.
with a covops you should always be able but the margin for error is very very slim.


It almost definitely was my error - I really, really wasn't paying attention. Id have definitely timed my cloak better if I'd have realised he was there.

I'll always be scrutinizing my overview much closer in future when de-cloaking.

What're people's thoughts on Warp Core stabs on a Crane? Or is the extra agility from Nano's more important?
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-07-24 17:13:24 UTC
Fye'16 wrote:
I'll always be scrutinizing my overview much closer in future when de-cloaking.

What're people's thoughts on Warp Core stabs on a Crane? Or is the extra agility from Nano's more important?

1) You may find it helpful to modify your overview tabs to minimize extra clutter. That way you can identify threats much quicker. I wrote a guide on it a million years ago. There are newer ones around if you do some searching.

2) Warp core stabs are kind of a trade-off. They may save you from a really fast svipul that would would have caught you with or without the nano, but they won't benefit you at all against a heavy interdictor (which has infinite point strength).

Edit: added link

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2016-07-24 18:13:18 UTC
Fye'16 wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Fye'16 wrote:

My question is - is it actually possible for me to cloak in time to prevent this type of setup from locking on to me? Or do I just need to accept that I'll occasionally lose a ship to this?

You just need to accept that you'll occasionally lose a ship to human error.
with a covops you should always be able but the margin for error is very very slim.


It almost definitely was my error - I really, really wasn't paying attention. Id have definitely timed my cloak better if I'd have realised he was there.

I'll always be scrutinizing my overview much closer in future when de-cloaking.

What're people's thoughts on Warp Core stabs on a Crane? Or is the extra agility from Nano's more important?

imo, double check your overview settings, stick with the nano and just pay attention.
90% of the time a covops ship goes pop at a gate its pilot error ,
whenever i lose a scout or something like this its generally my fault so i say that from experience.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Memphis Baas
#7 - 2016-07-24 19:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
That said, the server processes commands in 1-second intervals called "ticks", and there's also internet lag measured in the 0.1 - 0.3 second range, both ways.

So if they use enough sensor boosters and remote targeting assistance to reduce their ship locking time to less than 2 seconds, your cloak and their target lock will be "processed" simultaneously at the end of the second tick, and their lock takes precedence.

It's a limitation of the fact that this is a MMO that must operate on a server and on the internet. The Planck time for the EVE universe is 1 second, and because of added internet lag, typically the fastest response from the server that we can see is 2 seconds. More explanations here.
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#8 - 2016-07-24 19:33:58 UTC
One faction scram has a scram strength of 3, that will mean you need 3 warp core stabs, and if I remember correctly a crane only has 2 lows. You could go with 2 and hope they cheap camps. If you see a Heavy interdictor no amount of warp core scrams will work.
Bets thing to do is to check the map or dotlan and see how many people if any have died in the system you are going to, find the KM and you will see how.
Fye'16
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-07-24 22:24:47 UTC
aldhura wrote:
One faction scram has a scram strength of 3, that will mean you need 3 warp core stabs, and if I remember correctly a crane only has 2 lows. You could go with 2 and hope they cheap camps. If you see a Heavy interdictor no amount of warp core scrams will work.
Bets thing to do is to check the map or dotlan and see how many people if any have died in the system you are going to, find the KM and you will see how.


I do the map checks every 5 jumps or so, I'm pretty careful.

That said - it doesn't stop the occasional solo roaming camper.

Are 3 strength scrams actually that common?

To be honest - I was thinking of maybe just fitting 1 to counter disruptors as 75% of the time when I see a gate camp they're further than 10km away from me anyway so 1 would be enough!
Fye'16
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-07-24 22:32:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Fye'16
Cara Forelli wrote:
Fye'16 wrote:
I'll always be scrutinizing my overview much closer in future when de-cloaking.

What're people's thoughts on Warp Core stabs on a Crane? Or is the extra agility from Nano's more important?

1) You may find it helpful to modify your overview tabs to minimize extra clutter. That way you can identify threats much quicker. I wrote a guide on it a million years ago. There are newer ones around if you do some searching.

2) Warp core stabs are kind of a trade-off. They may save you from a really fast svipul that would would have caught you with or without the nano, but they won't benefit you at all against a heavy interdictor (which has infinite point strength).

Edit: added link


Would a heavy interdictor actually be in any better of a position to catch me if I have stabs instead of nanos though?

The thing in any null/low sec camp that is going to save me is the cloaking device surely...

My usual practice is...

1: Align (or move in a straight direction away from the centre of the bubble if I'm in one)
2: Immediately hit cloak then...
3: Immediately hit my MWD to try and burn away. Hopefully this makes me as unpredictable as possible in where I'm moving to in order to minimise the chance of being de-cloaked.

Yeah extra agility will mean I turn faster, but if I'm not cloaked then they're going to catch me anyway as my align time is always going to be more than 4 seconds regardless.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#11 - 2016-07-24 22:34:28 UTC
Fye'16 wrote:
It almost definitely was my error - I really, really wasn't paying attention. Id have definitely timed my cloak better if I'd have realised he was there.

I'll always be scrutinizing my overview much closer in future when de-cloaking.


Check out some of Feyd's Newbro Resources. Specifically the ones on Un-Fracking One's Overview and Getting Thy Pod Out.

As a *general* rule, covops ships should only die to particularly well setup gatecamps with a large sphere of jetcans/wrecks/corpses strewn at ~12km from the gate, or to a bubble trap in 0.0/WH space. Well, that or, as you discovered, 'User Error'.

Gatecamps are something of a fact-of-life in EVE. You'll learn well enough how to avoid them.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#12 - 2016-07-24 22:36:59 UTC
HIC's dont give a **** if your stabbed to hell and back or not,
if they get a lock on you they will catch you.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Memphis Baas
#13 - 2016-07-25 00:18:03 UTC
Heavy Interdictors can fit a Warp Disruption Field Generator module, which can create a bubble around the ship, OR a focused, single target infinite strength beam. So if you get caught by a HIC, it doesn't matter how many stabs you have.

Of course, the HIC is a cruiser, so its targeting is slower than an interceptor's or a frigate's, but as Meph said, a well-organized gate camp can have enough remote sensor boosters from a number of ships in their fleet helping the HIC target faster.

The game has been around for 10 years; people have had time to find strategies to counter even the harder ships (ships with cloaks, fast-align "travel" ships, etc.). It's not easy, because all you have to do is push a button to activate a cloak, but with enough people and time to prepare the gate camp, you are, basically, a solo pilot walking into a 5-10-person trap.

1 vs. 10 odds, and they've had time to prepare, not much chance for you.

Don't just rely on the map, it provides delayed info. Use a scout. Know where the pinch points are along the routes you travel.
Memphis Baas
#14 - 2016-07-25 00:30:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Fye'16 wrote:
3: Immediately hit my MWD to try and burn away. Hopefully this makes me as unpredictable as possible in where I'm moving to in order to minimise the chance of being de-cloaked.


Keep in mind that being "unpredictable" doesn't factor into it much.

After you've jumped through a gate, you have the gate cloak invisibility. To activate your cloak, you must take that off, and thus you will be visible for at least 1 second (server tick).

The keyboard shortcut for "lock target" is to ctrl-click a ship in the overview.
The keyboard shortcut for "approach" is to double-click a ship in the overview.

Thus, any interceptor can wait around with their MWD and warp disruptor online, and they have 1 second to see you in the overview and ctrl-tripleclick you. This will start them locking you right away, and if they lock the warp disruptor is processed on the same tick.

Otherwise if they don't lock, you disappear, but they are still moving at something like 2-3 km/s towards your last known position. If their ship comes within 2.5 km of your ship, you are decloaked by proximity. So, your mwd-cloak trick has to move you 2.5 km away, and keep in mind that that interceptor is near the gate somewhere, very close to you. Most ships cannot move 2.5 km in the time it takes an interceptor to get there.

Only if you survive this initial rush to your position does it matter which direction you're flying, vs. which direction the interceptor is blindly weaving around to try to "find" you by getting 2.5 km close.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2016-07-25 03:19:03 UTC
I once was traveling through low sec in an interceptor with 4 stabs and got caught by an insta-locking proteus with 2 faction scrams ( which means 6 points total ) and a remote sebo buddy / alt in a legion boosting him. So yes you can get caught regardless of how careful you are.

When moving through unfriendly null or low sec space I typically run two clients with a scout alt on one and my main on the other. Even at that there have been times where the scout alt only gave the locals a warning that my main was following closely behind and where he was coming from / going to.

There is no fool-proof, get out of jail free card for any mechanic in this game. Everything has trade-offs. However player skill figures in to a large degree in this game and in general friendship is the best ship in this game. So if you know how to play better and / or have more friends with you then you can often turn the odds in your favor. But never, ever are you able to achieve 100% safety in this game. Well with the single exception of not undocking.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2016-07-25 09:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramses Davaham
It's likely one of the following happened:

1: You lagged for a second longer than expected - which is all it takes
2: You failed to cloak the instant you moved
3: You had an object such as an wreck within 2000 meters of you (This was responsible for my last death at a gate camp)

In Low Sec I have blown a-many gate camps....easily... you arrive...the instant you move..cloak... 9 times out of ten you will escape assuming your align/warp/various navigation skills are up to snuff..

An i-Stab is a handy thing to have if not two.

In Null Sec however you have an additional threat - Drag bubbles/Interdiction Bubbles (both are the same) - As a rule you need to scout ahead before you land on a gate just in case.

They stop you from warping and pilots generally put all kinds of things to ensure you will not be able to cloak freely....unless they are just sitting there with no one watching.

blockade runners generally are great for what you do..but require lightning reflexes.

If your hauling cargo that is small - like drugs for example - frigate might be better choice (Astero/cov-ops frigate/etc)

Protip - If your going to do this regularly... you may want to research Covert Ops jump bridging/portal-ling. :) PM me if you want some tips on that hehehe.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2016-07-25 13:12:35 UTC
Something else that I forgot to mention. When CCP releases new ships like when they released the tech 3 destroyers or the new NPC Dreads that are appearing in null sec belts, they are unchecked on your overview settings by default. This means that whenever a new ship is released you have to go into your overview settings and enable your ability to see that ship on your overview.

Since it was a Svipul that got you and those were released not that long ago this may be the cause of your not having seen the ship on your overview. Just keep that in mind for the next time that CCP adds a ship to the game or this could happen to you again.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Fye'16
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-07-25 14:43:20 UTC
Since starting this I've learned a lot and I'm reaching the point now where I'm pretty confident... that said, this thread is full of great tips!

I really appreciate it, thanks everyone who responded!
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#19 - 2016-07-25 15:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Maybe cloak did not turn on because of gatecamp trash around it.

Some gatecampers dump a lot of tech I drones and corpses on gate.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#20 - 2016-07-25 15:58:21 UTC
Fye'16 wrote:
Would a heavy interdictor actually be in any better of a position to catch me if I have stabs instead of nanos though?

The thing in any null/low sec camp that is going to save me is the cloaking device surely...

My usual practice is...

1: Align (or move in a straight direction away from the centre of the bubble if I'm in one)
2: Immediately hit cloak then...
3: Immediately hit my MWD to try and burn away. Hopefully this makes me as unpredictable as possible in where I'm moving to in order to minimise the chance of being de-cloaked.

Yeah extra agility will mean I turn faster, but if I'm not cloaked then they're going to catch me anyway as my align time is always going to be more than 4 seconds regardless.


in null/WHs at least, my common practice is to keep a HIC with a bubble up along with some variety of T3D sensor boosted to near insta-lock, so take that for whatever it is.

One thing to keep in mind, if someone sees what direction you align before or during cloaking, you can be decloaked. Pick a direction, align, cloak/MWD, but change direction after you are cloaked. Not doing that led to a few expensive losses early on for me.
12Next page