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CCP, why do you allow Hi-Sec to be a haven for gankers

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Author
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#21 - 2016-07-25 12:44:51 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
...At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more)...,
The psychiatric community has determined that to run a corporation one must be a sociopath. Did you know that?

To find one sympathetic, or empathetic, to a cause, one must first find one capable of sympathy...or empathy. To find those not only incapable of sympathy, or empathy, but ready and able to ridicule anyone with these capabilities, post in this forum.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.

Elenahina
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#22 - 2016-07-25 12:49:53 UTC
Dibz wrote:


Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?


In a gank, it's almost never about active tank, but about buffer. Boost your resists, and your raw EHP, as high as you possibly can. You don't need to be ungankable, you just want to make yourself as unattractive a target as possible.

If you do a lot of hauling, invest in a freighter or deep space transport, and put as much tank on it as you can. Do not put billions of isk of cargo in a single run (my rule is, generally, do not put more cargo in the ship than the insurance payout on the hull, but YMMV). Both of these strategies will help to make you less attractive to the people who are ganking for profit, and they are more likely to wait for a softer and/or more valuable target.

It's like protecting your home from thieves. You can't make your house impossible to break into, but you can make it risky enough that most of the larceny inclined will move onto easier targets and leave you be.

There's really nothing you can do to stop the lulz gankers. That's more a case of wrong place wrong time than anything else.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2016-07-25 12:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramses Davaham
Dibz wrote:
Ramses Davaham wrote:
Dibz wrote:
Swoop McFly wrote:
Dibz wrote:
What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?


Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it)

If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you.


Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?


Odds are OP was not flying a blockade runner...as they are impervious to cargo scanners.


How does that answer my question?


It would be obvious if you read my statement. - But if you really want to know - think about it. They likely scanned you 2 -3 systems back...they usually have spotters along well traveled trade routes...and then spring the trap when the time is right.

The fact they can is irrelevant....the solution is to fly smarter....

There are scanning mods that can scan you without requiring a target lock (as far as you notice on your ship that is) - you want to remove the threat? Remove the temptation.

Natuarlly this doesn't stop them from randomly ganking a blockade runner....but they will pick a juicy Inty V over you if they spot a **** ton of cargo on the inty V.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#24 - 2016-07-25 12:53:16 UTC
The simple issue is that as a new low skilled player you are in the game purely to be their fun, you supply them with easy kills, easy money and tears, you end up in easy to kill ships because of low SP and because you are casual you have one account so no scout.

A lot of people have decided that being a easy target is meh and have left the game, you might decide that being an easy kill loot pinata is not for you. And who would blame you?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Swoop McFly
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-07-25 12:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Swoop McFly
Dibz wrote:
Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?


They have a character sitting on a gate one or two jump down the pipe and scan you there. When you then pass their ganking characters they already know how much you have in your cargo.

The idea with tanking your hauler is that the gankers need more ships to kill you, which of course makes it more expensive for them. That in turn means that it's only profitable for them if you are carrying enough cargo.
More tank -> more cargo you can carry before you become a profitable target.


EDIT:
There are modules that allow you to scan someone without yellow boxing them. BUT: the cargo scanner still produces a distinctive sound. (yes Eve has sound) If you hear that it's your first warning that someone might want to gank you further down the pipe.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2016-07-25 13:00:47 UTC
Dibz wrote:
What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?


Some things people could do:

-MWD Cloak Trick works fine.
- You can Hull Tank a T1 hauler to an outrageous level now.
-You should be double wrapping cargo in anything that isn't a blockade runner
- Train for Blockade Runner.
- Use Tanked DSP with MJD.
-THINK

Of course there are more than 2 kinds of people, but for the purpose of this discussion, there really are only 2 kinds of people:

Folks who come in to a situation, get beaten by people who know more than they do, then say to themselves "OK, there is a knowledge deficit here, what do I need to learn to avoid this happening again?".

And

Folks like the OP, who come into a situation, get beaten by people who know more than they do, then run to the highest authority they can find and claim to be a victim of some gross injustice that can only be fixed with heavy intervention from that authority. The bad thing is that sometimes that authority (in this case, CCP) sometimes does given in just to make the 'victims' go away...which other victim types see...which creates more victim types...


Judaa K'Marr
Shadow Legions.
WE FORM BL0B
#27 - 2016-07-25 13:01:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Judaa K'Marr
1st you were carrying too much. Rule of thumb for a t1 haul is 100mil max and even that is pushing it. If you are in the serious business of hauling get an occator and max buffer tank it which evidence shows very seldom die in high sec in non wardecs.

2nd never cloak and burn *away* from the gate, you are just on the same trajectory as the decloaker and they eventually catch up since they are faster. Burn perpendicular to the gate in a random direction or at least aligning to the thing you want with the mwd+trick. Not perfect but better than just burning away like a lemon. I don't recommend relying on cloak in hauling really since in busy highsec routes it is common to spawn within 2000m of other ships and police ships which makes it useless.

3rd you can do everything right and still lose just write it off as a cost of business. Real haul companies have to take losses. Think of 0.9-0.7 as Eastern Europe. Technically civilized yet really full of mafia and corrupt border guards and hijackings and whatnot, haul companies know they will take a loss eventually. It's the same with your virtual "high sec" haul business.
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
#28 - 2016-07-25 13:07:49 UTC
Jean Luc Clermont wrote:
Dibz wrote:
What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?


Oddly

LOADS!!!

Firstly, the map will tell you if alot of ships have been lost in a system, can you also check Zkills for the same info, if you see a lot of kills pick another route.

Secondly. Don't be a scrub, invest in a second account as a scout.. if your RL budget doesn't extend to the that, use a trial account.

Third, Don't be a scrub, invest in a blockade runner


You dont need a blockade runner. The cloaky warp trick works just as well in highsec as it does in low.
Paranoid Loyd
#29 - 2016-07-25 13:18:11 UTC
Yarr! Pirate

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

CCP Falcon
#30 - 2016-07-25 13:21:35 UTC
So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking:

In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players?

I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement.

The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it.

The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers.

You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future. Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Jean Luc Clermont
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-07-25 13:27:29 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking:

In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players?

I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement.

The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it.

The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers.

You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future. Smile


what he said... only with less words
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#32 - 2016-07-25 13:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
CCP Falcon wrote:
So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking:

In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players?

Is staple of said interaction must be PKing and:

CCP Falcon wrote:
I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement. Smile

..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them.

If CONCORD monitoring wessels and ban on weapon activativation agains players without apropriate flags is too unrealistic somehow.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#33 - 2016-07-25 13:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dibz wrote:
What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?

* Know your enemy, most gankers use Gallente ships which deal kinetic and thermal damage.
* Fit for buffer tank, taking into account the above.
* Know the high risk areas, Uedama, Nairja, etc and scout ahead.
* Have a set (r)isk limit; for example I never haul more than 3000 isk for every point of EHP that my hauler has.
* Never go afk, if you need a break, dock up.
* Never use the autopilot, gankers love it when you do.
* Set well known gankers, and ganking groups, to terrible standings using the standings mechanic so that they appear red in local; make sure any scouts have done the same.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#34 - 2016-07-25 13:55:59 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them.

How about 15min?
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#35 - 2016-07-25 14:00:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them.

How about 15min?

What about ban on high sec for one month, gates would not let you in.
CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec.
Cant jump clone to high.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#36 - 2016-07-25 14:08:07 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them.

How about 15min?

What abo0ut ban on high sec for one month
CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec.

You were literaly just told by a dev that your safety is your responsibility, and that tje punative measures taken here are in excess of irl.

Sit down love.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2016-07-25 14:09:55 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them.

How about 15min?

What about ban on high sec for one month, gates would not let you in.
CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec.
Cant jump clone to high.


Yep, that sure does sound like fun in a game that is supposed to be dangerous all the time.

I have a better idea, how about people learn to play (surviving, and thwarting the schemes of those who want to kill you is a big part of the game) rather than trying to figure out how to get CCP to punish people who spent the time to learn how to play?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2016-07-25 14:10:46 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them.

How about 15min?

What abo0ut ban on high sec for one month
CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec.

You were literaly just told by a dev that your safety is your responsibility, and that tje punative measures taken here are in excess of irl.

Sit down love.


Highlighted the problematic (for some people) word there.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#39 - 2016-07-25 14:12:00 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
xttz wrote:
It's time for the weekly Falcon Punch!

Quite frankly Falcon is out of touch with the normal players experience with EVE. He belonged to the 1% when he played EVE, and as a Dev the loudest voices he hears are the 1% still.
Doesn't invalidate some of his points, but he really has lost touch and some of his quotes aren't actually an appropriate answer.


The 1%? What is this America and income equality debate? If you were to take all the alts of players that live in null and low out of high sec, you would notice a very large drop in actual high sec residents. A majority of the players that live in low and null, and many that live in high sec would consider what Falcon says on this matter to be very much in touch with the community. In fact many players think that high is TOO safe for the income you can make there.

The misconception is that because people see "bears" complain on the forums often about being ganked, killed, or how hard/unfair the game is that that is the general consensus of the player base. And thats untrue. 99% of the people that post on the forums are:

1) Forum regulars, including trolls, that will post/debate various topics and help others with questions.
2) Newbies asking questions
3) People complaining about the game or a game mechanics. These,9 times out of 10, are bears...usually high sec bears that think this game should be more like WoW and less like Eve. Dumbed down, hand holding, with a dev protection blankie surrounding their frail being.

Only a very very small portion of the player base is represented here. CCP tried the carebear route a few years ago. Spending time on a feature that had no business in a game of internet spaceships, because bears whined about wanting it. It went over very badly with the eve player base.


If you want to automatically be the hero of the story, Eve is not for you.
If you want AI to guide you through a story, Eve is not for you.
If you want the game to create content for you, Eve is not for you.
If you want to dress your character up and walk around and interact with others in a social setting as if you were at a virtual club, Eve is not for you.
If you want simple linear skills and gameplay, eve is not for you.
If you want to play solo, eve is not for you.
If you want a "safe place" while you play, eve is not for you.
If you want to gain the rewards from pve without incurring any risks from other players, eve is not for you.
If you are so attached to your pixels that you cannot stand the thought of losing them, eve is not for you.
If you think you can change the game to fit YOUR playstyle rather than adapting to the game's playstyle, eve is not for you.
If you think high sec is there so you can carebear in peace and safety, eve is not for you and you are delusional.

If you think any of the above things should be features of eve and think you are in the majority, you are severely mistaken.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-07-25 14:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.

I think developers really deserve it.