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Closing incursions by killing the Mothership

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Darius III
Interstellar eXodus
The Initiative.
#1 - 2012-01-16 06:24:39 UTC
Soon you will not be able to count on having an incursion available to you 23/7. We will be killing the rest of the MS all at one time in a few days if negotiations with the BLT and TDF leaders fall apart.

We expect CCP to step in and spawn more/change the mechanic that makes them spawn.

After killing/forcing the MS to be killed, there were 700 in public incursion channel. So we made a fake logi fleet and got @15 BS killed by luring them and not repping them once aggro came in.

I am interested in hearing from a broader audience than Crime and Punishment about our actions.

Approve or disapprove and why?

Hmmm
colay Starwolf
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2012-01-16 07:12:46 UTC
what does it matter how someone plays this game its a sandbox game. I dunt understand all the hate being tossed at some of the players just based on how thay play the game. I have never once done incursions because i have never wanted to. It seem s that null sec players are forceing the way thay play on the rest of eve. And you seem, to be helping. Eve is a Sandbox game you are free to play it your way take away that freedom you take away part of the heart and soul if EvE onine.IF that is your goal you have failed as a CSM member.

EvE is a big mmorpg ( Many Men Online Role Playing Girls) game
Alizma
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-01-16 07:21:14 UTC
I would have to disaprove.

Frankly CCP has made it way to eazy to be pirates in this game, giving hualers, traders and miners very little defence.
Doing something like this just makes the game pointless, what do you get out of it? whats the point, why stress the other players? just so you can be greedy and have everything to your self?

Again i seriouslly disaprove of this actions, goes to show how much Eve online has declined to balless swines.
Zala Hoto
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-01-16 07:25:53 UTC
I would have to say approve, as it's always interesting when people start metagaming in Eve. However, I hope a similar mechanic (i.e. Group required PvE in hisec worth more than missions) continues to exist, if perhaps at a slightly lower isk/hr in small groups and a higher isk/hr in larger groups, as I think such a thing could server as a great stepping stone (or at least a new niche) for the many players in Eve who just are, well, not lowsec pirates, nullec mafia members, or w-space crazies, as, if properly balanced, they can only add more interesting stories to Eve in the long run.
J Random
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-16 07:31:38 UTC  |  Edited by: J Random
If you can do it and keep interest high enough, the I'm for it. IIRC PL or Goon did it back before the BTL/TDF alliance (back when they acutally competed and farming was rarer) but they lost interest after a week or so. Props if you can keep them perm locked down for a couple months.

Sorry I don't have hate for incurions but I've paid my carebear dues and sick of seeing six month old full time incurion runners in officer fit bhaal's. The ISK reward/risk ratio for incurions is insanely off balanced. At this point I have more sympathy for the bot miners.

Edit: Aliza: They are protected plenty .... take a look off the horn of Africa or mining sites in third world countries. Convoy and have your corp mates ride shotgun, that's how transportation, mining, etc is handled.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#6 - 2012-01-16 07:59:57 UTC
colay Starwolf wrote:
what does it matter how someone plays this game its a sandbox game. I dunt understand all the hate being tossed at some of the players just based on how thay play the game. I have never once done incursions because i have never wanted to. It seem s that null sec players are forceing the way thay play on the rest of eve.


Its a multiplayer game. if the actions of players don't impinge on other players, then its not really a multiplayer game, and yes as is stood, reliable 100+ mil/hr/participant is getting towards strategic.

Quote:
And you seem, to be helping. Eve is a Sandbox game you are free to play it your way take away that freedom you take away part of the heart and soul if EvE onine.IF that is your goal you have failed as a CSM member.


There is nothing stopping people from experiencing incursions, as they are designed that they cannot be instantly closed. The number of opportunities per week given to experience the mothership encounter also hasn't changed.

One imagines that the negotiations probably involve making the incursion runner fleets kill it themselves rather than depriving highsec players of the mothership encounter as the preferred solution.

The obvious and acceptable within the EVE experience alternative is that they can tell Darius to go **** himself, and grief any attempts to prematurely take the mothership down. ie protect their strategic level resource via force. This latter solution would be really writing EVE and MMO history, but one imagines not enough people actually can field an alt or want to risk killrights.
Endeavour Starfleet
#7 - 2012-01-16 08:08:15 UTC
Darius III wrote:
Soon you will not be able to count on having an incursion available to you 23/7. We will be killing the rest of the MS all at one time in a few days if negotiations with the BLT and TDF leaders fall apart.

We expect CCP to step in and spawn more/change the mechanic that makes them spawn.

After killing/forcing the MS to be killed, there were 700 in public incursion channel. So we made a fake logi fleet and got @15 BS killed by luring them and not repping them once aggro came in.

I am interested in hearing from a broader audience than Crime and Punishment about our actions.

Approve or disapprove and why?


Hopefully every single one involved are blacklisted to start. A bunch of burned logis wont be of much use in hisec in the future.
Cardval Simalia
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-01-16 08:31:13 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Darius III wrote:
Soon you will not be able to count on having an incursion available to you 23/7. We will be killing the rest of the MS all at one time in a few days if negotiations with the BLT and TDF leaders fall apart.

We expect CCP to step in and spawn more/change the mechanic that makes them spawn.

After killing/forcing the MS to be killed, there were 700 in public incursion channel. So we made a fake logi fleet and got @15 BS killed by luring them and not repping them once aggro came in.

I am interested in hearing from a broader audience than Crime and Punishment about our actions.

Approve or disapprove and why?


Hopefully every single one involved are blacklisted to start. A bunch of burned logis wont be of much use in hisec in the future.


Banned from what? The MOM's getting taken down ASAP. Banned from twiddling your thumbs in the most elietist chats in eve. I'm sure your members will be devestated.
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2012-01-16 08:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Krissada
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:



Hopefully every single one involved are blacklisted to start. A bunch of burned logis wont be of much use in hisec in the future.


Ha! **** it mate. People were running with us twice.
We had this this nightmare pilot who STAYED in fleet even after the first suicide run.
After 10 minutes we recruited for the next and one of the comments were "so the plan is to go in there and die again?"
YES DAM IT! That is the plan.

WAHHHHHhahahahahahha

Carebears these days Roll
colay Starwolf
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2012-01-16 08:34:37 UTC
[/quote]

There is nothing stopping people from experiencing incursions, as they are designed that they cannot be instantly closed. The number of opportunities per week given to experience the mothership encounter also hasn't changed.

One imagines that the negotiations probably involve making the incursion runner fleets kill it themselves rather than depriving highsec players of the mothership encounter as the preferred solution.

The obvious and acceptable within the EVE experience alternative is that they can tell Darius to go **** himself, and grief any attempts to prematurely take the mothership down. ie protect their strategic level resource via force. This latter solution would be really writing EVE and MMO history, but one imagines not enough people actually can field an alt or want to risk killrights.
[/quote]

And what gives them the right to decided how others play what limits thay have if you want can or can't do.the time table the have to work with
By doing this thay are Telling you have to play EvE online this way or we will not let you play. It defeats the point of making the game a sandbox game. Like i said remove the feedom and you remove part of the heart and soul of EvE.

EvE is a big mmorpg ( Many Men Online Role Playing Girls) game
Endeavour Starfleet
#11 - 2012-01-16 08:37:33 UTC
Cardval Simalia wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Darius III wrote:
Soon you will not be able to count on having an incursion available to you 23/7. We will be killing the rest of the MS all at one time in a few days if negotiations with the BLT and TDF leaders fall apart.

We expect CCP to step in and spawn more/change the mechanic that makes them spawn.

After killing/forcing the MS to be killed, there were 700 in public incursion channel. So we made a fake logi fleet and got @15 BS killed by luring them and not repping them once aggro came in.

I am interested in hearing from a broader audience than Crime and Punishment about our actions.

Approve or disapprove and why?


Hopefully every single one involved are blacklisted to start. A bunch of burned logis wont be of much use in hisec in the future.


Banned from what? The MOM's getting taken down ASAP. Banned from twiddling your thumbs in the most elietist chats in eve. I'm sure your members will be devestated.


From the shiny fleets and any fleet who takes two minutes to check the damn list what else?

You idiots will temporally drive people back into LVL4s but I hope you don't expect people to flock to your BS gatehump or structure bash CTA because you destroyed a way for people to group in hisec.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#12 - 2012-01-16 09:09:09 UTC
colay Starwolf wrote:
what does it matter how someone plays this game its a sandbox game. I dunt understand all the hate being tossed at some of the players just based on how thay play the game. I have never once done incursions because i have never wanted to. It seem s that null sec players are forceing the way thay play on the rest of eve. And you seem, to be helping. Eve is a Sandbox game you are free to play it your way take away that freedom you take away part of the heart and soul if EvE onine.IF that is your goal you have failed as a CSM member.


The topic is three dimensional:

1) A game mechanic is being exploited and CCP (as usual) do nothing to timely fix it.

2) EvE mechanics and "butterfly effect" make so that everyone affects everyone else. If a guy doing X is able to buy a supercap quicker than a guy doing Y, then Y will be affected.

3) EvE mechanics allow for much player interaction, since ever.

- Player Y may choose to jump on the bandwagon and do what X is doing (this drives EvE economy in the crapper) till CCP nerfs the bandwagon.

- Player Y may choose to hamper the bandwagon. In this case, players Y are just killing the end boss, which is the most straight way to complete incursions. Of course, since it's EvE, players Y may decide to also take some opportunity shots.

- Players X will try making Y look bad / whatever while THEY are the ones exploiting a loop hole.

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Endeavour Starfleet
#13 - 2012-01-16 09:12:26 UTC
I have reading back on your posts OP and if it was true about the support you got in hisec than I hope that blacklist grows by leaps and bounds.

Folks people like the OP are using your so called feeling towards incursions and their runners to serve their own goals. Which is to drive people back into their CTAs. They don't give a DAMN about you in my opinion. You helped 00 overlords become more powerful and burned your characters to any good shiny fleet in the future. Congrats fools!
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2012-01-16 09:30:14 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
I have reading back on your posts OP and if it was true about the support you got in hisec than I hope that blacklist grows by leaps and bounds.

Folks people like the OP are using your so called feeling towards incursions and their runners to serve their own goals. Which is to drive people back into their CTAs. They don't give a DAMN about you in my opinion. You helped 00 overlords become more powerful and burned your characters to any good shiny fleet in the future. Congrats fools!


Kill it with fire.
Brick Squad.
Skunkworks.

Now griefing EVERYONE in order to secure moon goo POS'. Payed by moon goo overlords.

Damn this. Why didn't I think of this first?
colay Starwolf
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2012-01-16 09:46:40 UTC

The topic is three dimensional:

1) A game mechanic is being exploited and CCP (as usual) do nothing to timely fix it.

2) EvE mechanics and "butterfly effect" make so that everyone affects everyone else. If a guy doing X is able to buy a supercap quicker than a guy doing Y, then Y will be affected.

3) EvE mechanics allow for much player interaction, since ever.

- Player Y may choose to jump on the bandwagon and do what X is doing (this drives EvE economy in the crapper) till CCP nerfs the bandwagon.

- Player Y may choose to hamper the bandwagon. In this case, players Y are just killing the end boss, which is the most straight way to complete incursions. Of course, since it's EvE, players Y may decide to also take some opportunity shots.

- Players X will try making Y look bad / whatever while THEY are the ones exploiting a loop hole.[/quote]


Nurf high sec is not three dimensional because what about low/null incursions or Sov combat site spawners or Sov complex spawners are those not free isk. Are you saying high sec haveing this content is more damageing then someone sitting in null farming the sites spawners make. In incursions you get only isk and lp not isk and deadspace/faction items that make you even more isk.

EvE is a big mmorpg ( Many Men Online Role Playing Girls) game
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#16 - 2012-01-16 10:09:27 UTC
colay Starwolf wrote:

Nurf high sec is not three dimensional because what about low/null incursions or Sov combat site spawners or Sov complex spawners are those not free isk. Are you saying high sec haveing this content is more damageing then someone sitting in null farming the sites spawners make. In incursions you get only isk and lp not isk and deadspace/faction items that make you even more isk.


It's not a "nerf to high sec". Were the first incursions nerfed, when people killed the end boss? No.

Anyone cared that a couple more ships entered? No.


Is completing a L4 mission a nerf to hi sec? No

If someone enters an incursion today and kills the end boss: is said incursion nerfed? No, it's just *completed*.

So, how is completing an incursion a nerf to hi sec?

A nerf to incursions (not hi sec) would be if CCP took over and forced the "kill the boss" mechanic on the players. As of now, CCP has not nerfed anything.




As of the ebil 0.0 overlords invading hi sec: they farmed L4 years ago because it was downright better than risking their efficient pimpmobiles in 0.0.
CCP at a certain point decided that 0.0 rewards were already good enough, but L4 rewards were even more than good (enough vs the low risk involved) so they nerfed L4s, multiple times.

Now, if (I don't say they CERTAINLY do) CCP decide that 0.0 rewards are good enough but incursion rewards are even more than good (vs the risk involved), they will nerf incursions or (more probably) just force the end boss to be killed.

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colay Starwolf
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2012-01-16 10:31:48 UTC

It's not a "nerf to high sec". Were the first incursions nerfed, when people killed the end boss? No.

[/quote]
Anyone cared that a couple more ships entered? No.


Is completing a L4 mission a nerf to hi sec? No

If someone enters an incursion today and kills the end boss: is said incursion nerfed? No, it's just *completed*.

So, how is completing an incursion a nerf to hi sec?

A nerf to incursions (not hi sec) would be if CCP took over and forced the "kill the boss" mechanic on the players. As of now, CCP has not nerfed anything.




As of the ebil 0.0 overlords invading hi sec: they farmed L4 years ago because it was downright better than risking their efficient pimpmobiles in 0.0.
CCP at a certain point decided that 0.0 rewards were already good enough, but L4 rewards were even more than good (enough vs the low risk involved) so they nerfed L4s, multiple times.

Now, if (I don't say they CERTAINLY do) CCP decide that 0.0 rewards are good enough but incursion rewards are even more than good (vs the risk involved), they will nerf incursions or (more probably) just force the end boss to be killed.[/quote]

Nurfing content in high sec is nurfing high sec because its high sec content.
If it was really about incursions then it would be all incursions not just high sec ones.
If its really about Pve payouts then what about SOV pve spawning upgrades. Seams alot of high pay out pve is being left out dont you think.

EvE is a big mmorpg ( Many Men Online Role Playing Girls) game
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#18 - 2012-01-16 11:10:43 UTC
colay Starwolf wrote:

Nurfing content in high sec is nurfing high sec because its high sec content.
If it was really about incursions then it would be all incursions not just high sec ones.
If its really about Pve payouts then what about SOV pve spawning upgrades. Seams alot of high pay out pve is being left out dont you think.


I am fairly sure there are some who want to nerf high sec because they are jerks.

But I am also quite sure that there are others who don't like to see stuff rising in price because ISK is losing value because it's being grandiously pumped into the system. EvE sandbox is not a watertight sandbox where everyone play his little castle with no consequence on others. A guy pumping money in EvE is adversely affecting the purchasing ability of others.

I am also quite sure there are 0.0 leaders who would want their members to actually be in 0.0 instead of jump cloning away in hi sec (few have top pimp ship high SP alts). When I lived in 0.0 sec one of the important duties was to patrol our systems and be "present" 24/7. If half players jump away to hi sec, not only they won't patrol, but they will also be unavailable in case of attacks, operations and so on.

Now, something is enticing people away off 0.0 and WH like when L4s were "overpowered" ISK. The something is not the incursions per se but the "smart farming" (a loophole) of them.
It looks like a group of players wants not to nerf incursions but to remove the "smart farming".

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Endeavour Starfleet
#19 - 2012-01-16 11:23:54 UTC
Quote:
I am also quite sure there are 0.0 leaders who would want their members to actually be in 0.0 instead of jump cloning away in hi sec (few have top pimp ship high SP alts). When I lived in 0.0 sec one of the important duties was to patrol our systems and be "present" 24/7. If half players jump away to hi sec, not only they won't patrol, but they will also be unavailable in case of attacks, operations and so on.


GET Yer butt out of incursions and defend mah MOON GOOZ!!!

Removing opportunities that empower members is a big goal of multiple nullsec alliances. Members were actually daring to want more of the pie and less forced CTAS and the alliances are striking back.

Incursions were forcing them to actually offer members perks so they would actually fight. Forced to spend moon goo funds on better (Or any) Ship replacement programs. Forced to stop having multiple long running mandatory CTAs on the same day. And maybe even more interesting CTAs.

Anyone who blindly serves these alliances in hisec is a fool and deserves having his/her characters blacklisted.
Ducati
New Eden Janitorial Services
#20 - 2012-01-16 11:27:07 UTC
The way i see it the OP is not "nerfing" highsec incursions. he is just going to do his own thing and kill the MOMS without consulting the main incursion runners. is this a nerf? i think not. is it a **** move? i also think not really. the Op is entitled to run whatever part of incursion he wants. if that means that 100's of other players miss out on HUGE amounts of isk becouse of it then oh well.

go and do something about it.



PS. also sov upgrades cost loads of isk and wile yes they produse very juciy spawns you also have to take into effect that its 0.0 space and not all that safe. also alliances pay sov bills in that space directly based of of how many upgrades are in said system. you obviously have never paid sov bills but with a fully upgraded system it can be over 1 billion isk per month, for each system
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