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What CCP think about Casino influence in EVE economy ?

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Resnar Ash-carrier
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2016-07-25 08:19:19 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Frankly I think it comes down to competition. We need more people to compete against IWI and come up with a concept just as good if not better. That is the only way at the moment I see as a solution.

In time though anything can happen. Eventually people might get sick and tired of casino's and their popularity could die down. Who can predict the future?

If you let Coke have market share for carbonated beverages and no one competes they are simply going to dominate. This is pretty simple stuff imo.


ahah my friends, i know ppl who earn 50bil+ per day just with auto spin in IWI, who can get tired of it ? :p

But yeah, i think CCP need something that can provide the fun of casino, without the part "a single player can destroy a coalition"

However, i'm pretty glad to found real ppl to talk about it here, in reddit, i get -10 karma, get insult everytime i say "IWI is bad" xD

thanks ppl :)
Valkin Mordirc
#22 - 2016-07-25 08:23:23 UTC
"History Is Written By The Victor"

George Washington
1969
Battle of Iwo Jima

#DeleteTheWeak
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#23 - 2016-07-25 08:23:50 UTC
As long as it is done by the rules, I see no problem. Is it fair? Yes, it is. Where one draws the line then? Well, when creating and owning casino is cheaper and easier way to power than having null sec alliance. Then EVE Online might have a problem. But since I do not see mass surge of casinos at every corner. That means having your own easy way to god mode isnt as simple as one might imagine.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-07-25 08:27:53 UTC
I don't think CCP will create anything like a Casino in the game, or whatever just cause people are creative in how they play EVE. If a single player was smart enough and followed the EULA/TOS while essentially winning the game in a way then great for them.

Regardless I doubt CCP is going to do a damn thing, and sitting down and waiting for that to happen isn't reliable. The only solution I see is by taking action as players and building casino's that can compete with IWI. If they don't or can't then IWI will continue to make tons of isk and continue to be able to do whatever it wants whenever it wants if people are willing to take their isk for it.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-07-25 08:35:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
ugh zug wrote:
if i was CCP i would view player made casinos with embarrassment...

1. gambling could have already been in the game via npcs or other methods considering how popular it has been over the years and still remaining as such.

2. casinos are generating content for this terrible game, something ccp is rather bad at.

3. the vast majority of the wealth earned is not spent but banked and will never see the light of day again; an isk sink is something this game will always need.

4. rmt isk washing, casinos can easily be used to launder isk.

5 casino owners can bully any large group of players they please by funding wars... they only get this big because ccp has yet to level the playing field by giving corps/alliances the option of setting up their own gambling houses with all in game tools and limiting the distance one person can transmit ISK to another via right click


why would ccp need to make them npc casinos? they can leave that to the players and not have to worry about crying noobs filling support everyday with "this game is fixed ccp you scammed me out of money" etc etc.

the way ccp has done this is actually great as it takes any pressure away from themselves

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Resnar Ash-carrier
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2016-07-25 08:49:17 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:


why would ccp need to make them npc casinos? they can leave that to the players and not have to worry about crying noobs filling support everyday with "this game is fixed ccp you scammed me out of money" etc etc.

the way ccp has done this is actually great as it takes any pressure away from themselves


And what do you say about the power in eve is actualy to the alliance who have IWI in them side ? It's not a question of sov/power/influence/moon control etc, now it's just "Do you have a friends in IWI who want to give you ISK ?" and that's problem is bigger than anything else in the game on my see, CCP need to doing something because soon, all alliance will have them own gambling website, will not give a **** about moon (like what a r64 undersiege ? don't care i make mutch more isk to just refresh my wallet in my website) And ppl who think the balance of the game is broken by IWI and other gambling site who interfere with the economy with all that isk concentrate in 1 guy, and this guy is grr SMA, then grr goon, what's the next stage ? Grr DRF/SW/Vanguard and other ? I just see a blue donut, who only fight each other when they are not in cta in null sec coming soon, and that's an another point to CCP for they need to do something
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-07-25 09:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
If WWB has cost 10T Is that is nothing that someone like the Goons couldn't match. Dirty forum alt had around 750B isk after 6years and there are 14000+ Goons.
So the amount of money didn't make or break the war. IWI brought together a lot of people that hated Goons and the money was just a psychological bon. There was nothing in this war that really needed the IWI money. And you had to have enough players that really want to kill Goons so there isn't much possibility to repeat it.
Resnar Ash-carrier
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2016-07-25 09:46:15 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
If WWB has cost 10T Is that is nothing that someone like the Goons couldn't match. Dirty forum alt had around 750B isk after 6years and there are 14000+ Goons.
So the amount of money didn't make or break the war. IWI brought together a lot of people that hated Goons and the money was just a psychological bon. There was nothing in this war that really needed the IWI money. And you had to have enough players that really want to kill Goons so there isn't much possibility to repeat it.


So why did no one before IWI come with ISK have match with the goon power ? Why did it took cople year to kill goons in 2 month ? let's be honest, yeah goons was rich, yeah member in goon was rich, but IWI came with too mutch isk, did you have been on the battlefield ? If yes you should know PL was dropping super everytimes they saw something, a rorq ? 50+ super, a carrier ? 50+ Super

And you say "yeah but PL is rich so what ?" Yeah, but after saw many battlereport, i only see 50+super against goons, before that, and even now it was/is pretty rare to see that 50+ super in field, my point here is, IWI was full SRP super lost against goons, so, pl use that isk to kill goon. I don't know if i'm realy clear, but i try to say, without IWI, PL will not bring on the battelfield 50+ super, and they use that super fleet almost every day, and when you see 50+ super you can't realy doing something beside drop more super so yes IWI ISK kill goon

And lat's thing, hum.. dude you realy think all 14000 + goon wil send some isk to goons war chest ? I mean i know ppl with a lot of isk, they might going to send 1/2 bil to the corp to help or something, maybe rich guy will send a lot of isk to the alliance to help a little, but let's be honest, you realy think all ppl in alliance will pay a big ammount of isk like ? that argument was very wrong...
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2016-07-25 09:49:51 UTC
Resnar Ash-carrier wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
If WWB has cost 10T Is that is nothing that someone like the Goons couldn't match. Dirty forum alt had around 750B isk after 6years and there are 14000+ Goons.
So the amount of money didn't make or break the war. IWI brought together a lot of people that hated Goons and the money was just a psychological bon. There was nothing in this war that really needed the IWI money. And you had to have enough players that really want to kill Goons so there isn't much possibility to repeat it.


So why did no one before IWI come with ISK have match with the goon power ? Why did it took cople year to kill goons in 2 month ? let's be honest, yeah goons was rich, yeah member in goon was rich, but IWI came with too mutch isk, did you have been on the battlefield ? If yes you should know PL was dropping super everytimes they saw something, a rorq ? 50+ super, a carrier ? 50+ Super

And you say "yeah but PL is rich so what ?" Yeah, but after saw many battlereport, i only see 50+super against goons, before that, and even now it was/is pretty rare to see that 50+ super in field, my point here is, IWI was full SRP super lost against goons, so, pl use that isk to kill goon. I don't know if i'm realy clear, but i try to say, without IWI, PL will not bring on the battelfield 50+ super, and they use that super fleet almost every day, and when you see 50+ super you can't realy doing something beside drop more super so yes IWI ISK kill goon

And lat's thing, hum.. dude you realy think all 14000 + goon wil send some isk to goons war chest ? I mean i know ppl with a lot of isk, they might going to send 1/2 bil to the corp to help or something, maybe rich guy will send a lot of isk to the alliance to help a little, but let's be honest, you realy think all ppl in alliance will pay a big ammount of isk like ? that argument was very wrong...



Easy - the answer is politics.
u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
#30 - 2016-07-25 10:11:56 UTC
As long as there are people handing over their Isk to gambling sites there is nothing we can do about it. The fact that IWI has grown so large shows how much they earn on the backs of the naive or bored people, but it's as legit as falling for a Jita scam or missing a few zeroes when selling an item.

Look on the bright side: they are generating content, I heard many people came back into the game because of WWB, one more reason for CCP to not interfere, as well as gambling addicts purchasing more PLEX to feed their "hunger".
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#31 - 2016-07-25 10:16:22 UTC
Resnar Ash-carrier wrote:

So why did no one before IWI come with ISK have match with the goon power ? Why did it took cople year to kill goons in 2 month ? let's be honest, yeah goons was rich, yeah member in goon was rich, but IWI came with too mutch isk, did you have been on the battlefield ? If yes you should know PL was dropping super everytimes they saw something, a rorq ? 50+ super, a carrier ? 50+ Super

And you say "yeah but PL is rich so what ?" Yeah, but after saw many battlereport, i only see 50+super against goons, before that, and even now it was/is pretty rare to see that 50+ super in field, my point here is, IWI was full SRP super lost against goons, so, pl use that isk to kill goon. I don't know if i'm realy clear, but i try to say, without IWI, PL will not bring on the battelfield 50+ super, and they use that super fleet almost every day, and when you see 50+ super you can't realy doing something beside drop more super so yes IWI ISK kill goon

No, that's just PL being the only thing they're good at, apart from third party blobbing. They even drop supers on noobships, because that's just all they can do, apart from being risk-averse cowards.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Resnar Ash-carrier
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2016-07-25 10:28:21 UTC
u3pog wrote:
As long as there are people handing over their Isk to gambling sites there is nothing we can do about it. The fact that IWI has grown so large shows how much they earn on the backs of the naive or bored people, but it's as legit as falling for a Jita scam or missing a few zeroes when selling an item.

Look on the bright side: they are generating content, I heard many people came back into the game because of WWB, one more reason for CCP to not interfere, as well as gambling addicts purchasing more PLEX to feed their "hunger".


Ppl came back in the game, other fun away from null, tbh, i'm at 2 finger to stop sub my 6 accunt because i'm a null player and i don't feel Null sec will be great again until IWI stop doing **** with eve politics...

Well ok now i have apply to join goon to be grrIWI so should be better, but i know some ppl run away from north etc because the plague is there, CCP should react to that...
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#33 - 2016-07-25 10:33:21 UTC
OP sounds like a salty goon forum alt.

/thread

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Resnar Ash-carrier
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2016-07-25 11:04:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Resnar Ash-carrier
edit : i won't lost time with ppl like you go on reddit or other tread, we are here to talk about Casino influence in the EVE economy not talking about where we come, who is right etc, it's just a pointless debate
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#35 - 2016-07-25 11:26:09 UTC
Resnar Ash-carrier wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
OP sounds like a salty goon forum alt.

/thread


Useless comment, Yeah i going to join goons soon, Yeah i prefer CFC mentality than MBC, but here i just want to know what CCP think about all of that, and on the same way try to understand why ppl still think iwi/gambling site are good for EVE. The thing is pretty cute with ppl like u it's, if IWI have kill other coalition, everyone will have an other opinion, because everyone follow the gimmick grrgoon without think 2 sec of the real impact of goon in the game (i know i will receive a lot of insult for that). If for exemple IWI will be 'grr DRF kill DRF take that 10 tril" try to be very honest and tell me if you will be :" yeah they deserve shut up salty DRF alt "

I'm not here to debate if goons are good or mean, they are mean and proud of it, and that's btw why i want to join them be mean and kill MBC, but, if 54 alliance had the idea of put together an big forces to kill CFC first no one will daily fight each other, crack is real in MBC pl fight test, GTOG fight PH, snuff have awox etc etc you realy think when alliance put together forces they say "hey we shoot them but we still fight each other " ? Nah it's impossible, when you have a common ennemies, common goal, you try to recruit your friends, then try to recruit ennemies with a pact of non-agression that's how you create a big entity, that's how MBC should be, if it was done like that i will not even say grrMBC, because it's more or less how CFC have born right ? But here it's pretty different, we have some random alliance who get bait by the IWI isk, ofc everyone want his share, ofc everyone wanna be a part of mbc to take his share of the cake, i think to OOS/OSS who was fighting Razor/Fcon since a long time in north, and there many other exemple, but let's take all lowsec alliance ? Come for money, GTOG ? Come for money, they had a good space in south, so why move to north ? (i will not say what i realy think of them, but if you fly 1 month with them you will think the same xD)
So yeah that make me laugh when i hear MBC is an entity, it's not there is just IWI banker who come with his isk and say go fight for me pet !

But anyway i don't want to explain/debate on did this was had to happen or not, ofc the war had to come, but my concern is, did this war had to come because someone take 10 tril and say now fight ? Let's put our goon/mbc flag outside this tread, and debate about how Casino influence EVE economy please

Grammar and spell check that and maybe I'll bother to read it.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Swoop McFly
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-07-25 11:47:19 UTC
Casinos are nothing but cleverly masked scams. Scamming is a completely legit way of earning ISK in Eve and something Goons do themselves regularely.

CFC didn't even lose because of ISK - they have plenty of that themselves.
They lost the war because they became fat and lazy over the years. The only strategy Goons ever employed was that of N+1. When the time came that this strategy wouldn't work anymore they had no backup plan other than to curl up in a softdrink warehouse in lowsec and hope the bad guys would leave.

Goons had it coming for a long time. Years of shitting on everybody else has its consequences. IWI merely had to light the fuse.
bewzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2016-07-25 12:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: bewzee
To be fair, I WANT ISK, along with most other gambling sites I've tried are not scams. They offer odds that are typically not in your favor and you decide whether or not to try and beat them. In Jita, if you send your money to a "doubler", it's gone. Period. But you already knew it was gone when you sent it.. you just decided to take the risk.

Plenty of people have made tens of billions of ISK on gambling sites, some even hundreds of billions or trillions. They may represent a very small portion of the players, but real none the less.

Gambling sites are, however, designed to beat you. You still have a shot, of course, but for every winner there's a few losers. If the house didn't win more than it lost, it wouldn't be able to stay open. Welcome to business 101, where profit is _always_ important.
Resnar Ash-carrier
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2016-07-25 12:32:41 UTC
bewzee wrote:
To be fair, I WANT ISK, along with most other gambling sites I've tried are not scams. They offer odds that are typically not in your favor and you decide whether or not to try and beat them. In Jita, if you send your money to a "doubler", it's gone. Period. But you already knew it was gone when you sent it.. you just decided to take the risk.

Plenty of people have made tens of billions of ISK on gambling sites, some even hundreds of billions or trillions. They may represent a very small portion of the players, but real none the less.

Gambling sites are, however, designed to beat you. You still have a shot, of course, but for every winner there's a few losers. If the house didn't win more than it lost, it wouldn't be able to stay open. Welcome to business 101, where profit is _always_ important.


I agree with you, IWI Is not a scam, for me the only problem with IWI is not the gambling site himself, if you lose isk it's because you try to win in first place, the problem with ISK it's they interfere with the eve economy.

Use your **** ton of isk to make a 3 day old player a prefect titan pilot, it's fun and stupid so i like it, but, when you use that money to kill an alliance because 1 guy in leadership steal some isk, i can more or less understand, but when you see you have take all the power from SMA, they are reduce to evac etc, and you say :"hey why not kill goons, everyone grr goon it can be fun' (that's what he say during "talk in station" and 2 month later CFC have almost all die, beside goons, and sit now some random alliance who fight each other, kill super to each other (i will never forgot the Cede nullis Super down in branch by PL hand while MBC was in CTA, one of the basic rules in MBC are : no pewpew each other while in CTA) etc you know there is a problem

And i don't even talk about the keepstar who belong more or less to IWI...
spongsbob
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2016-07-25 12:40:53 UTC


First of all you need to understand 1 thing. IWI has made there isk from ingame ppl simple fackt the isk dident just fall into the pockets of the owner if theres no gamblers = no isk.

Many ppl have tried to make gambeling sites but they always eighter is to gready and take to much isk for gambeling or they do somthing agains ELUA.

Iwi is simply just succesfull cause its fair on the site.

as many other things in eve this gambeling site takes a fee from you as a player. "who wouldent take a fee".

next is the fackt that it has so much isk that its unfair you say. why is it unfair ? is it unfair the persons who got lucky and became rich after getting a special t2 bpo back in the days ?. simple a person created a gambeling site instead of ratting / mining ingame. after creating a site some years back he can now sit back and see the isk flow. again he can only do this cause of ppl that are gambeling. if there was no gamblers there wouldent be any isk.

ppl say its a scam ???? we dont hide anything and if you see us talk or ask for advice we always say dont gamble whit anything you cant affort losing its simple have fun on ouer site and maby you get insanly space rich.

There will always be rich ppl in the game and then there will be the once whit not that much isk.

In my mind i think this is one of the best things that have happend in eve. WHy ?

Cause it shows that you can have plenty of space but when it comes to the buttom line its always about who has the most isk / freinds.

you can make freinds or you can buy them, just like real life.

Best regard Spongsbob Iwi banker

Im wordblind so sry for bad spelling
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#40 - 2016-07-25 12:57:40 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
Any transactions involving players transferring ISK to other players is a wash (null set) with regard to taking ISK out of the game, or putting ISK into it. Therefore, it doesn't affect the EVE economy in any way, so inferring that somehow a third-party website is affecting the game in any way is a logical fallacy; regardless of how one may feel about the incident(s) to which one might wish to place such an attribution.

This means any third party site not in violation of agreements made with CCP (CoC/EULA) is not in violation of anything significant to EVE. Right? (Doc?) LOL.



Well...not quite true. Depends on who gets it and what they do with it. If it goes into an account where the player does not spend the ISK then it does very little, if the player does spend it it is moving around the economy and having an effect.

That kind of "macro" thinking can lead you astray, IMO.
I understand this is a commonly held view, however, in actuality it's only ISK taken out of play or put into play. Any ISK transferred player to player - its status as in or out of play remains unchanged. (An example would be an NPC fee for a service, for instance, to take ISK out of play.)

sinks and faucets, sinks and faucets

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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