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Revamp of High/Low Sec

Author
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#21 - 2016-07-16 08:08:05 UTC
[quote=Roenok Baalnorn]...Freud's mis-fire.../quote]

Translation:
I hate zee highsec player. I no can shoot zee highsec player and force zee pvp on it. Make remove highsec. Only I playstyle of zee killing is valid.
No has other opinion. Me must force the pvp on everyone. CCP change game to force higsec player to zee pvp.


No. There are enough lifeforms out there in farmville online. Shoot the ones that shoot back.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#22 - 2016-07-16 14:59:14 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Thats the point. High sec carebear shouldnt be a career much like welfare recipient shouldnt be a career. This is pvp game, not space farmville.

Stuff your arrogant attitude. The high sec carebear is as valid a game play style as you PvP players, if you doubt that take a look at a map of EvE. Why is there all of that high sec, and why does CCP even bother trying to balance high sec and to keep the players there reasonably safe if it is not a valid game play style? I think I know the answer and that is that high sec and the players in it represent a major portion of the real cash money that is needed to keep CCP and the game of EvE going. You are right I cannot prove that claim, but circumstantial evidence suggests strongly that it is true. In a game that advertises itself as no one is safe anywhere, a game that advertises itself as a PvP game there is no logical reason to make changes that increase the safety of some of the players and yet that is exactly what we see happening over the last few years. However if you add the cash flow aspect into the picture then all of a sudden it all makes sense. CCP is changing the game and making high sec safer to protect the single largest source of cash flow they have and that is high sec.

But then none of that really matters because neither you or CCP can force players into low or nul, however you can force them out of the game by taking away the things they like to do and the area they like to do it in. So far CCP does not seem to agree with you that high sec is a plaque that needs to be removed which gives one cause to wonder and ponder on the cash flow aspect.

CCP gave us farmville in many forms, faction war sites, nul sec sites, low sec sites and the giant farms they call worm holes.
With all of these farmvilles in the game why single out those in high sec? Why is high sec farmville bad but low, nul and worm hole farmvilles are OK?

Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
You are being seriously overly dramatic about OMG dont have enough isk to get to low, null. I went to null with 80 mil isk, a frigate, 1.5 mil sp, and the shirt on my back. And i lost the frigate and the shirt on my back on the way to the destination. I did fine.

And I can give you the names of at least a dozen players that tried this and failed. Luck plays a huge role in a solo attempt to move into low / nul with out a source of income or aide, because you got lucky does not mean that others would be.

Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
And if you are referencing high sec in this as well. The point is to get people out of high sec. Unless your a newb, high sec should be a mostly undesirable place to be.

Short sighted best describes this section.
No the point is to leave people the hell alone and let them play the game where ever and how ever they want to. Again this comes back to real life cash needed to keep a business open and their product on the market. Since you cannot force players into low, nul or worm holes by having a viable and engaging high sec CCP is able to capture and keep many of them in the game and that is good for all us including you because cash flow.

Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Also it encourages teamplay...for pvpers. Your not going to get PVErs to play as a team unless you make teamplay more rewarding than solo, and even then they just use 5 alts.

The only reason it is difficult to get players into a group for PvE is the players themselves, no one wants to join up because it reduces their ISK / LP per hour so they use alts when / if needed. But then the same holds true in PvP, why fleet up with other players and have to share the loot if I can use alts and keep it all for yourself.

Since I am approaching the 5 quote limit and I am running out of time let me close this out this way.
This is like a Readers Digest Condensed version of all of the worst ideas ever posted here so you get a heartfelt no way in hell from me.
Cade Windstalker
#23 - 2016-07-16 17:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Quote:
This would utterly destroy at least 90% of high-sec play styles in the game, never mind the effect on existing players if the map was changed like you're proposing, and by extension would wreck the ability of players to get out into Low and Null with ISK earned in High Sec.
Thats the point. High sec carebear shouldnt be a career much like welfare recipient shouldnt be a career. This is pvp game, not space farmville.


This is Eve.

Eve is what people make of it, if you don't like how others are playing then no one is forcing you to play like them. If you don't like that others are able to play in a way that you don't like then may I suggest self actualization and just learning to tolerate that other people are different from you in general?
afk phone
Repo Industries
#24 - 2016-07-18 18:41:10 UTC
I've played the game for 10 years. SOV null is the most utterly boring and uninteresting place to live and play the game. I'm OK with you liking it. That's fine. I get it. I know this girl that LOVES pea soup. I'll never understand it but I can respect it. Now if she were to suddenly try to change the world such that everyone will eventually end up eating pea soup - no respect.

Seriously - who do you think you are to dictate a major game change to eventually force players into your uninteresting and boring play land?? Why would any sentient player want to live in SOV null to be dictated to by one of several large entities? Sheep love herds and to be pushed around by shepherds and dogs (or do they??), but most of us are epic space heroes who detest the thought of becoming sheep or F1 monkeys.
Hylopetes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-07-19 08:36:04 UTC
I dont understand the skillpoint price per day. isn't it avoidable by just not training past 10M skillpoints on the character you want to carebear in high sec with?..
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#26 - 2016-07-19 10:07:52 UTC
Hylopetes wrote:
I dont understand the skillpoint price per day. isn't it avoidable by just not training past 10M skillpoints on the character you want to carebear in high sec with?..


Someone didn't get the memo.


Everyone said no already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111eleven

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#27 - 2016-07-19 15:22:33 UTC
Quote:
This is Eve.


Im fine with people playing in carebear land. it should just be smaller and they should suffer penalties for all the protection they enjoy. If you havent noticed, and im sure you havent as you probably been to busy with spreadsheet spaceships, High sec was never intended as a permanent home for carebears. CCP has tried to nudge people consistently over the the years out of high sec. However bears are very stubborn.

If you also havent noticed, all the updates are geared towards null players. Have you ever wondered why CCP mostly has neglected high sec in almost every single patch? Its because they dont want you in high sec. This game is designed around nullsec and playing in your sandbox and using tools to do what you want. High sec bears take this to mean using CCPs tools and protections to do some of what they want with limits. Thats not the intention. The intention is for you to live in a world controlled mostly by you and your peers, not NPCs and game mechanics.

Eve will eventually head this direction. CCP just has a strong belief in encouraging you with gentle nudges to get out of high sec rather than straight out forcing you. Im more of a rip a bandaid off kind of a guy.

Quote:
Seriously - rant
Like most high bears, you have an extremely distorted view of null life based on some crappy experience another bear told you or you experienced yourself.

Ironically all that stuff you do in high sec has 0.0 counterpart...and i mean literally everything. And that counterpart pay 2-3 times more or more for doing the exact same thing. So if null was "boring" to you then either you are doing it wrong, or you are using that as an excuse to play in the kiddie pool with 10 lifeguards watching you so you dont accidentally drown in the 12 inches of water. .

Im in a pvp alliance in null. We pvp. We have bears. Those bears do not pvp. We do not force them to pvp. We know they dont like to pvp. Some will pvp if they need to defend their home, some will let us do it. We are ok with that. We are ok with them mining and ratting when we deploy. They hold the fort down, keep the lights on. They provide us with ships, mods, ammo when at home. They take care of the POSes, mine fuel for our caps, keep the reactions going and the silos empty. The ratters provide the corps with income while at home. The traders keep the market full. Our big issue is with station spinners.

We dont raise our tax rate to 100% during an op. We dont cuss, scream, and yell to get in fleet. We dont force people to log in at 3 am to do an op or get booted. We expect you to contribute. There are many ways you can contribute. Not all of them require weapons.

I know many alliances that use to not be like this. They would scream at you to get into fleet, They would threaten you, raise the tax rate to 100%, even to the point of hunting you down and shooting you themselves for ratting or mining during a fleet. Ironically most of these alliances do not exist anymore. That kind of behavior doesnt increase fleet participation, it lowers it. So those alliances died by trying to force people to play a certain way.

How is that different from this? Well because this game was designed with the intention for you play in a sandbox with few rules and regulations. The heavily regulated part of the game, high sec, is designed for newbies. And pretty much all changes to high sec are either a secondary affect of null changes or changes directly related to newbie players and sometimes people that haul stuff a lot.

Calling null players f1 monkeys immediately tells me you lack the personal experience to have a valid argument against null sec. Any time you may of spent in null was likely in a **** alliance and you shouldnt really judge an entire region or its gameplay based on a bad experience. Sure you can be an f1 monkey but only if you choose to fleet up. And you have to fleet up to be one. Once fleeted up you can choose to play as someone that doesnt do anything but fire at target when told too. But thats a choice to play that way. Its not the only way to play. Logi, cap pilots, scouts, ewar, tackle, entosis people, etc. operate fairly independently of the FC. They are far more flexible on making their own decisions than a dps pilot. A dps pilot is no different than a miner. Target, turn on mods, wait, select new target, turn on mods, wait. How is that different from mining rocks? Actually it is different because as a dps pilot you still have to make decisions. You still have to decide when to run modules, if you should try to get out or broadcast for logi help. You still have to pilot the ship. DPS pilots are like infantry. They still have to make decisions, but not a lot of decisions, as they follow their commander. Everything else are more like specialist. Logi are like medics, They stay with the group, but they take care of who needs it. Tackle you can think of like machine gun operators. They use cross fire to either suppress the enemy( read:bubbles) or to pin them down( read: point/web) . If your a drone in a fleet, its because you choose too, not because you had too.

Quote:
I dont understand the skillpoint price per day. isn't it avoidable by just not training past 10M skillpoints on the character you want to carebear in high sec with?..
You understand it correctly. I left ways to skirt the mechanics. You can still fly your ships through high sec at any SP, you just cant use any drones or modules( this could be changed to active modules). You can also have an alt at 9,999,999 sp and do whatever you wish in high sec without penalty. The penalty is that alt cant hit 10 mil or you get charged. So you can train alts for specific tasks in high. Just not highly skilled alts. Which is why i left the SP at 10 mil instead of higher. I intentionally want you to be able to skirt the mechanics so you can still play in high sec. Its just more limited and less appealing.
Zatar Sharisa
New Eden Heavy Industries Incorporated
#28 - 2016-07-20 02:59:14 UTC
Yes, but if I head out into null I have to join in with some big, sovereign seeking alliance or corp. That or live under their umbrella, get their permission, worry that they'll lose control of the system, and basically play by their rules. No thanks. I'm not interested in any such thing. Bluntly, I'm not here to make friends and influence people. I'm here to play a game and relax. I have a group of friends that I do like to play with, and when we're all on, we -do- fleet up to do missions or mine together or whatever. I know these people though. I trust them. The rest of you? Nope. And you know what? The game -fosters- and -promotes- that wariness and mistrust. Therefore, if what your say is true - CCP wants us moving out into null and joining in with the big groups - they've fostered an environment that is very antagonistic to that, where mistrusting everyone is pretty much a survival skill.

All the way around, it's a bad idea, and if, as you suggest, CCP goes this way, I'll relegate the game to the pile of "bad ideas." It'll be a crying shame too.

I understand about indecision, but I don't care if I get behind.  People livin' in competition.  All I want is to have my peace of mind.

"Peace of Mind"  --  Boston

Cade Windstalker
#29 - 2016-07-20 03:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Im fine with people playing in carebear land. it should just be smaller and they should suffer penalties for all the protection they enjoy.If you havent noticed, and im sure you havent as you probably been to busy with spreadsheet spaceships, High sec was never intended as a permanent home for carebears. CCP has tried to nudge people consistently over the the years out of high sec. However bears are very stubborn.


This hardly seems like you being fine with how other people are playing.

You also seem to not get that CCP have never tried to force people out of High and into Null. The game was always supposed to have variety, with people making homes anywhere in the game they choose, not being forced out of an area or a play style because *you* dislike it.

Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Eve will eventually head this direction.


Nope. Never going to happen. Eve is all about incentives, not shoves. If you don't like it, sucks to be you.

Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Ironically all that stuff you do in high sec has 0.0 counterpart...and i mean literally everything. And that counterpart pay 2-3 times more or more for doing the exact same thing. So if null was "boring" to you then either you are doing it wrong, or you are using that as an excuse to play in the kiddie pool with 10 lifeguards watching you so you dont accidentally drown in the 12 inches of water.


I'm well aware, I'm also not quite the highsec bear you seem to think I am, but that's beside the point. Other people don't like Null, and that's fine by CCP and fine by me. You're the one who seems to have an issue with this idea that some people *like* staying in High Sec and don't want to be forced out to play elsewhere.

I like High, and Low, and Null, and Wormholes. Each offers something unique and different and no one should be forced out of one and into another by mechanics. Encouraged,sure, but weird artificial limits like an SP cap or something that says you can literally bankrupt your character just for failing to leave High Sec are ridiculous and very much not in the spirit of Eve.

CCP understands very well that people want choice and variety not "go this way now". If we wanted that kind of railroady experience we'd play WoW where everyone is carefully funneled to the "end game content" instead of being given so many options.

Your entire view of this game, and what it should be, is drastically (and kind of hilariously) out of alignment with reality. These "OMG CCP please wreck High Sec now" posts have been going for literally years. Why do you think CCP is going to take yours any more seriously than any of the rest?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#30 - 2016-07-20 04:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Im fine with people playing in carebear land. it should just be smaller and they should suffer penalties for all the protection they enjoy.
Hisec dwellers are already penalised for living there, as you yourself note the income from activities such as ratting is lower; as for receiving protection, that's crap, Concord provide punishment, other people provide protection.

Quote:
If you havent noticed, and im sure you havent as you probably been to busy with spreadsheet spaceships, High sec was never intended as a permanent home for carebears. CCP has tried to nudge people consistently over the the years out of high sec. However bears are very stubborn.
Where have CCP said that hisec was never intended to be a permanent home?
IIRC the only area of space that they have ever said that about is wormholes.

CCP have provided opportunities for those willing to leave hisec, they also realise that there is a core group of players that will never leave hisec no matter the size of the carrot. Some of us so called bears operate both in and out of hisec, why should we be penalised in the way that your OP suggests?

Quote:
This game is designed around nullsec and playing in your sandbox and using tools to do what you want. High sec bears take this to mean using CCPs tools and protections to do some of what they want with limits. Thats not the intention. The intention is for you to live in a world controlled mostly by you and your peers, not NPCs and game mechanics.
Bears have as much right to use the tools available, including the stuff that you call protection even though it is nothing of the sort, to do what they want, as you have to do what you want. The problem is people that don't use the tools.

The intention is for players to use the tools available to them to create their own stories.

Quote:
Eve will eventually head this direction. CCP just has a strong belief in encouraging you with gentle nudges to get out of high sec rather than straight out forcing you. Im more of a rip a bandaid off kind of a guy.
Hisec is mechanically safer than it has ever been, how is that nudging people out of hisec?

Quote:
Ironically all that stuff you do in high sec has 0.0 counterpart...and i mean literally everything. And that counterpart pay 2-3 times more or more for doing the exact same thing.
There's one of those dirty gurt penalties to operating in hisec that I mentioned earlier

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#31 - 2016-07-20 04:56:24 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
...Any time you may of spent in null was likely in a **** alliance and you shouldnt really judge an entire region or its gameplay based on a bad experience. Sure you can be an f1 monkey but only if you choose to fleet up. And you have to fleet up to be one....


Do you even listen to yourself? This is so insulting in every way I don't even know where to begin.

Yes, I spend my time in highsec sometimes, so what? I have 192 million skillpoints which I cannot make use of every single minute but I do make use of them.
I also pvp a lot more now. Turns out training on SiSi for many years helped in that regard. I go where I please, when I please.

You cannot do anything about it. And calling me a carebear is just an insult.

Most capsuleers are so freaking afraid of me that they vacate the system I am in or pay marmelade some 200 isk to declare are war on us to really "show us how cool blobbing is". They are the definition of FONE monkeys.

I even tried to give them a fight they couldn't win. Turns out they are very quick in leaving when they do not have enough buddies to outblobb you.

Anyhow, some folks like it in highsec and why is that a problem that needs to be solved by anyone?

Spoiler alert,
it is not a problem! Nullbears on the other side are a problem.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

afk phone
Repo Industries
#32 - 2016-07-20 14:28:42 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
...Any time you may of spent in null was likely in a **** alliance and you shouldnt really judge an entire region or its gameplay based on a bad experience. Sure you can be an f1 monkey but only if you choose to fleet up. And you have to fleet up to be one....


Do you even listen to yourself? This is so insulting in every way I don't even know where to begin.

Yes, I spend my time in highsec sometimes, so what? I have 192 million skillpoints which I cannot make use of every single minute but I do make use of them.
I also pvp a lot more now. Turns out training on SiSi for many years helped in that regard. I go where I please, when I please.

You cannot do anything about it. And calling me a carebear is just an insult.

Most capsuleers are so freaking afraid of me that they vacate the system I am in or pay marmelade some 200 isk to declare are war on us to really "show us how cool blobbing is". They are the definition of FONE monkeys.

I even tried to give them a fight they couldn't win. Turns out they are very quick in leaving when they do not have enough buddies to outblobb you.

Anyhow, some folks like it in highsec and why is that a problem that needs to be solved by anyone?

Spoiler alert,
it is not a problem! Nullbears on the other side are a problem.



You're either with him or agai..... a carebear. Every time he types he makes a case against himself. Forget this thread. It is garbage and needs to fall of into dumpster.

Apparently I'm a HS care bear also. Which is even more wrong than your case being that I don't even reside in HS. He doesn't have the time or the will to put in effort to encumber his ranting with fact or accuracy.

TL/DR It's best to let poop circle the drain a few times and then let it go down the drain.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#33 - 2016-07-20 15:08:51 UTC
afk phone wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
...Any time you may of spent in null was likely in a **** alliance and you shouldnt really judge an entire region or its gameplay based on a bad experience. Sure you can be an f1 monkey but only if you choose to fleet up. And you have to fleet up to be one....


Do you even listen to yourself? This is so insulting in every way I don't even know where to begin.

Yes, I spend my time in highsec sometimes, so what? I have 192 million skillpoints which I cannot make use of every single minute but I do make use of them.
I also pvp a lot more now. Turns out training on SiSi for many years helped in that regard. I go where I please, when I please.

You cannot do anything about it. And calling me a carebear is just an insult.

Most capsuleers are so freaking afraid of me that they vacate the system I am in or pay marmelade some 200 isk to declare are war on us to really "show us how cool blobbing is". They are the definition of FONE monkeys.

I even tried to give them a fight they couldn't win. Turns out they are very quick in leaving when they do not have enough buddies to outblobb you.

Anyhow, some folks like it in highsec and why is that a problem that needs to be solved by anyone?

Spoiler alert,
it is not a problem! Nullbears on the other side are a problem.



You're either with him or agai..... a carebear. Every time he types he makes a case against himself. Forget this thread. It is garbage and needs to fall of into dumpster.

Apparently I'm a HS care bear also. Which is even more wrong than your case being that I don't even reside in HS. He doesn't have the time or the will to put in effort to encumber his ranting with fact or accuracy.

TL/DR It's best to let poop circle the drain a few times and then let it go down the drain.
I don't think the OP understands the difference between a bear and a carebear Roll

Looking back at his posting in F&I he appears to have read a book on how to alienate customers in the pursuit of increased revenue.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#34 - 2016-07-20 16:23:08 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Drastically increases security in high-sec... check.

Drastically Increases security in low-sec... check.

Penalizes non-consensual combat in most forms... check.

Mechanics that add additional NPC security (and thus circumvent the "team play" aspect of an MMO) for those with the biggest wallets... check.

Increases NPC rewards for extra farming income... check.

Increases mining yields and mining barge defenses without really understanding that this will decrease mining income... check.



tldr: this is a high-sec carebear's wet dream.

Extending a hand with middlefinger to OP for all the reasons stated above.

Biomass and quit eve, your presence is detrimental to it.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

afk phone
Repo Industries
#35 - 2016-07-21 16:36:17 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Drastically increases security in high-sec... check.

Drastically Increases security in low-sec... check.

Penalizes non-consensual combat in most forms... check.

Mechanics that add additional NPC security (and thus circumvent the "team play" aspect of an MMO) for those with the biggest wallets... check.

Increases NPC rewards for extra farming income... check.

Increases mining yields and mining barge defenses without really understanding that this will decrease mining income... check.



tldr: this is a high-sec carebear's wet dream.

Extending a hand with middlefinger to OP for all the reasons stated above.

Biomass and quit eve, your presence is detrimental to it.


Sweety.... are you single? I may be falling for you!
Raphael Deimatar
Cynosural Samurai
#36 - 2016-07-22 15:30:34 UTC
Dude i live primarily in wormholes but i love to go into highsec to run incursions with buddies, stop forcing me to your play style because you dont like the way i play the game...

Kindly biomass and have a mediochre afternoon
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#37 - 2016-07-25 04:23:16 UTC
I started in August 2013 with the intention of going to wormholes. Started game and at 1.5m sp, I went into a C5. That was an interesting experience but it showed me I was not ready for it.

So I went back to highsec and messed around, mostly mining and doing some missions. Then I decided to head to lowsec and do faction warfare. While I joined a good pvp corp (the one I am in currently), lowsec just wasn't my cup of tea.

So I went back to highsec and decided to go all out missioning. Then I found out my love of highsec wardecs. I zealously pursued my enemies with reckless abandon, and then showing them their mistakes afterwards and how to not become victims again.

After that was killed by CCP, I went back to wormholes...which I found boring. Like incursions, it was shooting at whatever the Moros was shooting at. Left that and went back to highsec.

Nullsec holds absolutely no interest with me whatsoever. I have no desire to get blobbed by a dozen bored carebears at a gate.

OP, leave my damn highsec alone. At 64m sp now, I play the game how I want to, whether it is missioning, MTU hunting or just chatting with my corpmates while ship spinning in a station. Highsec is definately stagnant, but those ideas introduced in the OP were borderline stupid.

Please tell me they weren't your idea...
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